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And Likewise, when something like an Ion Cannon (S7 AP3) hits (for example) a Plague Marine, it goes like this:


So, can someone in Termie armour take an Armour Save? Yes.

STOP. GO TO JAIL. DO NOT PASS GO. Something, somewhere can take an Armour save, so the Plague Marine gets FNP, in addition to any cover save he may have.

Rules aside, it would also be worth considering that the 'FNP doesn't work against low AP' argument would mean that a model's own innate ability to withstand enormous amounts of damage to their body (which is what FNP represents), would be defined by how much armour they are wearing...

Edit: There would also be little point in the FNP rule mentioning that it doesn't work against AP1 and AP2 weapons... if low AP is enough to remove FNP, it wouldn't work against those anyway...

so, it would mean that FNP grants an additional Sv2+ type(excluding Instant death) save that is rolled at 4+?

Lacross wrote:so, it would mean that FNP grants an additional Sv2+ type(excluding Instant death) save that is rolled at 4+?

Do what now?

Lacross wrote:so, it would mean that FNP grants an additional Sv2+ type(excluding Instant death) save that is rolled at 4+?

Uhm, that is a rather confusing thing to read so Im going to TRY and answer it?


Firstly anything with a 2+ save, would not get a FNP roll if it is hit with a weapon that ignores their save, as 2+ is the best possible save in the game. Therefore if you hit it with either ap1/ap2 or a power weapon or the like, FNP is ignored as those attacks would ignore ANY and ALL armor saves, period.

Now if your asking is something with a 3+ FNP(we will say a SM) is hit with an ap3 weapon, it DOES get the 4+ FNP roll with the exceptions to the FNP rule. Simply because sure the mini doesnt get its normal 3+ armor save, but some where in the 40k world, are minis that could of taken the save( IE terminators) So if its an Ork rokkit, the mini will not get its 3+ armor save as a rokkit is ap3, BUT it also wouldnt get the FNP as the rokkit is double the toughness of the marine, IE instant death, which is under the rule. But if its just a normal ap3 shot that is only STR4, then the marine wont get its 3+ save, but it WILL get its 4+ FNP save

Seriously its getting harder and harder to explain this with out saying the same thing 4 times.

Also, as said before, Plaugebearers wouldn't be able to take FNP unless against AP - weapons, because they have no armor.

Klawz wrote:Also, as said before, Plaugebearers wouldn't be able to take FNP unless against AP - weapons, because they have no armor.

Even against AP -, since AP - negates a save of -, the same way AP6 negates a save of 6+.

Klawz wrote:Also, as said before, Plaugebearers wouldn't be able to take FNP unless against AP - weapons, because they have no armor.

This is astute and brilliant analysis. I commend you for it, and I hope you live a long and happy life. I'm intrigued by your ideas, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Edited for previous reading difficulty...

maybe its time to close this thread? Just post GW troll boyz phone # and let people call them, as it is seems that they still stay with their opinion and just ignore what others say.

Monster Rain wrote:

Klawz wrote:Also, as said before, Plaugebearers wouldn't be able to take FNP unless against AP - weapons, because they have no armor.

Again, and I know I've said this 3 times already... If it allows an armor save to anything it gets a FNP roll. This includes AP-. In fact, the very idea that someone would suggest otherwise hurts my soul since everything with an armor save gets to take it against AP-. Saints preserve us.

Yes, I think Klawz knows, I think he is pointing out that if AP3/4/5/6 stopped FNP, Plaugebearers would never be able to use it.

Are people still argueing about FNP?

AP 1, 2, Power Weapons, Double Toughness is the only thing that takes away FNP.

Why is there 3 pages to this????

Monster Rain wrote:

Klawz wrote:Also, as said before, Plaugebearers wouldn't be able to take FNP unless against AP - weapons, because they have no armor.

Again, and I know I've said this 3 times already... If it allows an armor save to anything it gets a FNP roll. This includes AP-. In fact, the very idea that someone would suggest otherwise hurts my soul since everything with an armor save gets to take it against AP-. Saints preserve us.

What do you take me for, some sort of troll?

Klawz wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Klawz wrote:Also, as said before, Plaugebearers wouldn't be able to take FNP unless against AP - weapons, because they have no armor.

Again, and I know I've said this 3 times already... If it allows an armor save to anything it gets a FNP roll. This includes AP-. In fact, the very idea that someone would suggest otherwise hurts my soul since everything with an armor save gets to take it against AP-. Saints preserve us.

What do you take me for, some sort of troll?

No... I don't know... I don't know what to think anymore.

If you weren't insinuating that AP- negates FNP then we have no quarrel.

Monster Rain wrote:If you weren't insinuating that AP- negates FNP then we have no quarrel.

He wasn't. He was presenting Plaguebearers as an example of why that interpretation is wrong.

Honestly its kind of funny when you think about it. What would be the point of sticking a painboy (or similar) into squads anyways? If you couldnt get a FNP roll just because the mini in question doesnt have a high enough armor save from the attack in question (Seriously nobs with 6+ save wouldnt use fnp on a bolt gun? Really??!?! Wheres the logic in that?)

That would make FNP almost friggin useless

I know half the stuff in the game doesn't make sense but really...

I don't give two cents as to whether your Death Co felt any pain when the krak missile slammed into him, he's now tiny bits of gore splattered around a crater.

Well in most cases a krak missile would negate the FNP rule anyways

Luco wrote:I know half the stuff in the game doesn't make sense but really...

I don't give two cents as to whether your Death Co felt any pain when the krak missile slammed into him, he's now tiny bits of gore splattered around a crater.

Erm... Death Company don't get FnP vs a Krak Missile. It causes Instant Death.

insaniak wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:If you weren't insinuating that AP- negates FNP then we have no quarrel.

He wasn't. He was presenting Plaguebearers as an example of why that interpretation is wrong.

Reading fail. Don't mind me...

I don't get it, if it is possible to make an armor save against it, then you may make a FnP, sure that model cannot make an armor save, though it is still possible.

You understand it correctly.

That's what I get when I post when sleepy -.- soz.

I think this is my favourite thread.

This seems to be as clear as a rule can be. I'm now starting to realise why GW take their time to publish FAQs.

Elitest Jerk wrote:Are people still argueing about FNP?

AP 1, 2, Power Weapons, Double Toughness is the only thing that takes away FNP.

Why is there 3 pages to this????

Perhaps because you yourself have it wrong as well?

This is how I explain it when it comes up at my store:

Don't think of it from the target's POV think of it as a result of the weapon causing the wound. Things that don't allow saves are very specific. Most of them are listed as examples after the phrase under FNP (Perils, Dangerous Terrain, etc.) although there are more. It doesn't matter what the wound is affecting, but what is causing the effect.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:You understand it correctly.

I know, I just think it is a very clear cut rule, and I can't see it being percieved in his fashion.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:

Elitest Jerk wrote:Are people still argueing about FNP?

AP 1, 2, Power Weapons, Double Toughness is the only thing that takes away FNP.

Why is there 3 pages to this????

Perhaps because you yourself have it wrong as well?

This is how I explain it when it comes up at my store:

Don't think of it from the target's POV think of it as a result of the weapon causing the wound. Things that don't allow saves are very specific. Most of them are listed as examples after the phrase under FNP (Perils, Dangerous Terrain, etc.) although there are more. It doesn't matter what the wound is affecting, but what is causing the effect.

I was about to say that labeling him as "elitest jerk" was pretty harsh, and saw that it is his dakka name!

Bahaha, I see why he would think that, I simply have never met anyone that interpreted it like that...

I can at least understand where people who don't know the rules as well would misunderstand the rule. They have an inferred "...where an armor save can never be taken <by that unit>" in their head.

It really doesn't specify armor saves against that particular unit or in general of the game. It's implied that it's the whole game the way it's been played for the longest time. Someone who may not have played much may easily get that confused though.

I agree with you totally on that one. But you tend to get annoyed and start getting grumpy when that someone just keeps arguing that he is right, when he is wrong.

The main thing that tells me they are wrong is the AP1 & 2 thing. Besides the clear wording....lol

SlaveToDorkness wrote:The main thing that tells me they are wrong is the AP1 & 2 thing. Besides the clear wording....lol

If only the part that said 'wound against which no armour save can ever be taken' was immediately followed by half a dozen crystal clear BRB examples of wounds from attacks against which NO ARMOR SAVE CAN EVER BE TAKEN.

That sure would make it really easy to understand, don't you think?