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solkan wrote:Okay, so both players have automatically won the game. Coincidentally, they've also tied, as they've achieved the same result. Yay, they played a game and nobody lost.

See, I would say that a draw occurs when both players have the same SCORE. The result is a function of your score vs your opponents score, plus special conditions in this case.
Two players who have equal score are tied.
Two players who have the same result and not necessarily on the same score.


All this being said, in a friendly game this would be a right laughing point, and tournaments should have secondary/tertiary win conditions to resolve ties.

As much as I'd love to debate whether a tie is determined by result, such as winning or losing, or by score, in order to do so I would have to violate the forum rule of not arguing over dictionary definitions.

Nightwatch wrote:

Tsannik wrote:Regardless of the outcome of any game...


Everyone is a winner....

But that implies that everyone is also the loser!

actually no it doesnt, the only implication (logical, true and valid result) from "Everyone is a winner" is that there exists no entity in the set of "everyone" which has the predicate of "non winner"

that or i puke all over you for your sickening sentimentality...

how do you win if you do not defeat your opponent??

By completing a variety of objectives which constitute ‘success’ or ‘victory’ whilst none of these involve the actually defeat of one’s opponent.

GW's mistake in this instance is overestimating some people's ability to comprehend English. If people are going to refuse to acknowledge what a Draw actually is there's no point to this entire thread.

Sounds like win-win situation to me. (bad pun)


Also the idea of a psyker rolling double 1s and killing himself and the opponent's model(s) is neat.

There are some here who have a serious misunderstanding of terms.

A draw is a fairly precise term, it does not mean the same thing as tie. A draw means that there is no winner and no loser; no one has obtained an advantage. This is exactly how GW uses the term draw in 40k, a draw is when neither side controls more objectives than the other so there is no winer or loser.

Now a tie is not the same thing, because a tie simple means that there is an equal score. Both sides may be losing/ losers or both sides may be winning/ winners so the score is the same...a tie.


There is a difference in meaning. In a race, a tie can mean a tie for first where two players (racers) win over the other racers. In other sports we often hear the term tie used in talking about team rankings. A tie means an equivalent score. A draw on the other hand definitely means no winner or loser.


This only matters in 40k if the single game is being played as part of a bigger event. In a tourney or league it becomes rather critical as to whether or not a game is a draw or a double win. Either result is a tie, but has to be scored differently.



The rules do give us a very clear definition of what a wipe out is: its a win for the player who achieves a wipeout. There is nothing at all in the rules about a player losing.

Now, if before the game a TO wishes to make a house rule changing the BRB as to what a double wipe out would be-- thats perfectly fine, just be aware that such a change is a house rule.



Sliggoth

Catachan_Devil wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Yes, VPs are a good way of solving the dispute.

they will have the same amount which is a Draw according to the VP chart.

i believe the BRB (dont have it here) suggust you count back on KP first - if they are equal then VP's are used

as i have stated earlier it is common in a 2000pt battle that the players points don't match

ie 1997pts vs 1999pts

actually the rule book has a range of pts that are a tie.

a difference of less then 10% of the total Pts value of the game means an even match.