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Ailaros wrote:Thrones were a convenient mechanism for a role-playing game, but is there any other fluff that asserts that the imperium has a standardized currency? I agree with Emperor's Faithful that maintaining a centralized currency system is insane, given how the rest of the imperium works.

The thing to remember is that money is nothing more than a medium to command labor. There are several ways to do this that don't require a central bank.

Furthermore, can you REALLY imagine an imperial governor saying "well, we WOULD have gotten our leman order shipped out, but we're still waiting for our back pay from the emperor" or an imperial guardsman telling a commissar "I WOULD charge, but I haven't been paid this week".

Few things are as disruptive to trade as forcing everyone onto a monetary system and then providing an insufficient amount of the currency. The Imperium would have collapsed long ago if it relied on reliable, orderly taxation and payment. I mean, few states NOW can collect taxes right and pay their bills on time...

The Throne is the standardised currency as far as any fluff goes(there is very little), BUT...

it is probably only used for Day to Day transactions by the inhabitants of Hives, Forge worlds, and in Trade ports. The big transactions and those on planets that are of great Impierial Significance.

on the majority of planets that are not heavily populated and are out of major trading routes they will likely use a local currency, but the Tithe is collected in the equivilant value of thrones using an exchange rate. Most commerce, that isn't interplanetary, will be done in whatever the local currency is. the hassel is likely not an issue, Warp travel can take Months or even years, what's a few days converting money in the grand scheme of things?

Rogue traders and their ilk are likely the ones who make a Standardised currency possable and desire it as well.

Scorpionov wrote:the inquisition has the authority to demand any aid to complete their task such as an entire imperial guard regiment to a space marine company without question so yes inquisitors do practice slavery through conscription

So any and all combat units that are assigned to an Inquisitor are slaves? That is a severe failure of logic.

Grey Templar wrote:on the majority of planets that are not heavily populated and are out of major trading routes they will likely use a local currency, but the Tithe is collected in the equivilant value of thrones using an exchange rate. Most commerce, that isn't interplanetary, will be done in whatever the local currency is. the hassel is likely not an issue, Warp travel can take Months or even years, what's a few days converting money in the grand scheme of things?

I agree that most planets probably use their own local currency(ies). The question is, what does the imperium gain by collecting taxes in a currency type that isn't accepted anywhere but on that planet? The tax money they take in from that planet could only be spent on that planet. It defies an inter-planatary political organization.

I mean, I'm sure that there's a planet out there whose form of money is sea shells, but no Cadian is going to accept payment in sea shells from some other planet as no cadian store owner is going to accept sea shells as payment for amasec.

In order for this to work, they would need to set up a central facility that turns local currencies into a single, interplanatary currency. As mentioned, a central bank is already out of reach of the imperium's capabilities. Adding a money exchange market and a factory that takes the sea shells collected and turns them into throne coins only makes this worse.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Scorpionov wrote:the inquisition has the authority to demand any aid to complete their task such as an entire imperial guard regiment to a space marine company without question so yes inquisitors do practice slavery through conscription

So any and all combat units that are assigned to an Inquisitor are slaves? That is a severe failure of logic.

Well... look at the definition of "slave"

# A person who is the property of another person and whose labor and also whose life often is subject to the owner's volition.
# A person who is legally obliged by prior contract (oral or written) to work for another, with contractually limited rights to bargain; an indentured servant.
# A person who is forced against his/her will to perform services for another person or other persons...

In this case, a guard regiment is certainly forced to preform services against their will. Furthermore they're legally obligated by contract (oath) to work for the inquisition wherever and however the inquisition wants with NO right to bargain. While the inquisition may not keep a guard regiment once it's done (although only the inquisitor can say when he's done with the regiment), the labor and lives of the guardsmen are most certainly subject to the whims of the inquisitor (volition).

As such, with the exception of legally owning as property, the inquisition's use of conscription clearly fits the definition of slavery.

Ailaros wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:on the majority of planets that are not heavily populated and are out of major trading routes they will likely use a local currency, but the Tithe is collected in the equivilant value of thrones using an exchange rate. Most commerce, that isn't interplanetary, will be done in whatever the local currency is. the hassel is likely not an issue, Warp travel can take Months or even years, what's a few days converting money in the grand scheme of things?

I agree that most planets probably use their own local currency(ies). The question is, what does the imperium gain by collecting taxes in a currency type that isn't accepted anywhere but on that planet? The tax money they take in from that planet could only be spent on that planet. It defies an inter-planatary political organization.

I mean, I'm sure that there's a planet out there whose form of money is sea shells, but no Cadian is going to accept payment in sea shells from some other planet as no cadian store owner is going to accept sea shells as payment for amasec.

In order for this to work, they would need to set up a central facility that turns local currencies into a single, interplanatary currency. As mentioned, a central bank is already out of reach of the imperium's capabilities. Adding a money exchange market and a factory that takes the sea shells collected and turns them into throne coins only makes this worse.

Well, There is probably a Precious metal standard. A planet that is using Sea Shells would probably pay the tithe in men/matierial instead of coinage. Solving the interplanetary problems.

Planets will either pay the Tithe in precious metals/Gemstones/thrones(If they use them) OR in Raw matierials.

The probably collect all the Gold, Silver, Platinum, Gemstones...in a central location(Terra) that acts as the treasury.

Thrones are put back into circulation.

Matierial is taken note of and shipped to where needed.


As far as the hassel of figuring this massive system out. The Tithe system has been in place since the Great Crusade, any kinks that couldn't have been worked out in 10,000 years probably would just be worked around.

A conscripted soldier is not a slave. Go ask the UN.

# A person who is legally obliged by prior contract (oral or written) to work for another, with contractually limited rights to bargain; an indentured servant.

This could work for some servants an Inquisitor keeps around. But not an IG regiment.

How is an oath to serve and fight an agreement to slavery? To them an Inquisitor is just another ring on the command chain, a feared and intimidating one no doubt, but still a person in a posisition of authority, not an owner. If a Guardsman is ordered into battle, which believe me is not the ideal place for anyone, is that slavery? Going by that logic a Colonel is slavemaster of his regiment, a Lieutenant is slavemaster of his platoon, and a sergeant slavemaster of his squad. If the Inquisitor requisitioned IG units for a mission, that is equivalent to a military commander ordering a section of the military to follow an alterior objective. There's no slavery about it. S

Emperors Faithful wrote:

# A person who is legally obliged by prior contract (oral or written) to work for another, with contractually limited rights to bargain; an indentured servant.

This could work for some servants an Inquisitor keeps around. But not an IG regiment.

How is an oath to serve and fight an agreement to slavery? To them an Inquisitor is just another ring on the command chain, a feared and intimidating one no doubt, but still a person in a posisition of authority, not an owner. If a Guardsman is ordered into battle, which believe me is not the ideal place for anyone, is that slavery? Going by that logic a Colonel is slavemaster of his regiment, a Lieutenant is slavemaster of his platoon, and a sergeant slavemaster of his squad. If the Inquisitor requisitioned IG units for a mission, that is equivalent to a military commander ordering a section of the military to follow an alterior objective. There's no slavery about it.

Robert A. Heinlein said in 1961, "I also think there are prices too high to pay to save the United States. Conscription is one of them. Conscription is slavery, and I don't think that any people or nation has a right to save itself at the price of slavery for anyone, no matter what name it is called."

If you hold to this view, then it would be easy to reach the conclusion that many Imperial Guardsmen are slaves, including but not limited to those who are inducted into the Inquisition's service. Recruiting practice seems to vary by world, though: the Tanith regiments if I recall correctly were entirely volunteers, the Vostroyan Firstborn regiments are entirely conscripts, and the Death Korps of Kreig regiments seem to be a mix.

That's not even mentioning the impression some sources give that very bad things happen to Guardsmen that get inducted even if the mission is a success (mind-wipes, etc.).

The practice of recruitment varies from planet to planet, as yourself have said, with either volunteers or concsription. This does raise interesting questions though concerning Vostroyans, if it is seen as an honour to be the firstborn and inducted into a regiment, is that conscription?

Regardless, the manner of the recruitment is an issue of Imperial Planetary Governance and does not concern the issue of whether or not Inquisitors have slaves. An Inquisitor requisitioning an IG regiment for his purposes is like a Segmentum Commander doing the same on a grander scale. An Inquisitor is a superior commander that gives unyeilding orders, not a slavemaster (though one could argue that this is the same thing).

Emperors Faithful wrote:The practice of recruitment varies from planet to planet, as yourself have said, with either volunteers or concsription. This does raise interesting questions though concerning Vostroyans, if it is seen as an honour to be the firstborn and inducted into a regiment, is that conscription?

Can you choose not to join if you don't want to?

Since the answer to that question is pretty clearly "no", then I'd say yes, the Vostroyans are an entirely conscript force, even if some or most of them would have volunteered for service anyway had they not been conscripted.

An Inquisitor requisitioning an IG regiment for his purposes is like a Segmentum Commander doing the same on a grander scale. An Inquisitor is a superior commander that gives unyeilding orders, not a slavemaster (though one could argue that this is the same thing).

In theory, Imperial Guard service is not a life sentence (although in practice it works out that way much of the time). If you're serving the Segmentum Commander, your regiment will eventually be settled onto a planet somewhere, provided it survives long enough for that to happen.

It doesn't seem to work that way with those inducted into the Inquisition though. (Take for example the Vostroyan 68th, which was apparently disappeared after being inducted, or several instances throughout the BL novels where Inquisitors casually talk about mind-wiping inducted Guardsmen). I get the impression that the Inquisition is a "nobody gets out of here alive (without a lobotomy)" type of organization, and that once a Guardsman is inducted, he will not be retiring.

Servitors might as well be.

Guardsmen are rarely inducted by the inquisition for any extensive period of time, ussually it is only for that select mission or campaign, as it is technically illegal for an Inquisitor to mass his own private army without good cause.

In the cases of mindwiping, that is ussually only done for IG that come into contact with something either very secret or very (one might say extra) heretical. And even then it's not going to be done on a regimental scale. Either way, the induction of a guardsman is quite the same as enslavement, and is definitely more similar to a transfer to a superior. That their position will likely last their lifetime means little.

and Inquisitors would much rather have SoBs, Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, or GKs under their command.

they are either dealing with a minor situation OR a very desperate one if they need IG troops.

Actually, it's more likely that Guardsmen are just more readily available than anything else. Or that the issue can only be dealt with via an escalated engagement over a field of areas. A mission of SoB's or GK can achieve more than an entire regiment of IG in the right place, but aren't as great when someone needs to secure a planet or city, or fight off an impending army that threatens the Inquisitors mission.

Quite true.

if there is, say a Cult that is summoning Deamons then he will likely use IG to cordone off the area and engage the Cultists, but will only use the IG to take out the actual Deamonic infestation if he doesn't have any GKs, Space Marines, SoBs, or ISTs avaliable(In that order)

any IG that actually come in contact with the deamons will of course be mindwiped, but that is difficult to do if there are alot of them to do. the GKs, Space Marines, SoBs, and ISTs won't have to be mindwiped and so will be of first choice when dealing with corruption.

Unfourtunantly much of the time the Inquisitor doesn't have acess to his preferred method of dealing with the problem and so will have to resort to the IG.


a cult dealing with the demonic that causes a large amount of destruction can take months or even years to clean up, the Inquisitor would rather not make it even more complicated by having to interrogate and mindwipe 100s of guardsmen.

All very fascinating of course, but the requisitioning of troops has absolutely nothing to do with the matter of whether or not Inquisitors keep slaves.