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IG_urban wrote:if you are going to be a smart ass, at least be more clever.

@IG_urban- How about more overt. Your know it all attitude does come off as insulting to those of us who have served in the military and seen similar things.


Now, with that said, by using your own skeptiscism towards the most likely, I'd like to point out that the video as presented cannot even be verified as authentic.

If you want us to accept on "faith" that the video is real then you should return the courtesy. Especially to those that are showing that they have some familiarity with the topic of Aeronautics.

Now if I was going to postulate upon said video, I would venture two possibilities as to being the most likely/logical'

Possibility 1)(And most proboble) It was a Russian Progress Launch in its second stage showing stage separation like these here:
http://article.wn.com/view/2010/07/04/Russian_space_cargo_rocket_successfully_docks_at_ISS/

Look through all of them, Especially the M-03M(35)Lauch from about 9 months ago.

Possibility 2)(Less Likely) It was a Sonic Wave riding Hypersonic Aircraft using Technology pioneered on the XB-70 Valkerie. Rumor has maintained that the US airforce's Aurora Program is following this line of developement. Of course, the Aurora was a rumour when I enlisted in the early 1980's and is still unconfirmed. The reason I even mention the wave riders is because of the unique Contrail they are thought to produce.

Have fun speculating, later.

@Urban: Fail

A few threads ago, you called me out as a physicist. You failed. Heavily; claiming that you had studied to Phd level, at MiT none-the-less, something approaching a 'masters level' of research :(

You have no experience of high level physics. Please stop posting your nonsense in OT

But i still believe its the Japanese who have sent a Gundam Suit up into space! Am i right? Because i Believe it to be true. And i found this out at my LGS.

jp400 wrote:

DakkaDapper wrote: But, this, coupled with those two "swirls" a few months ago over western Europe, is leading me to believe that there's something going on. Might be something big, might be absolutely nothing. But I'd rather be suspect until hardcore proof is provided than drink the kool-aid of "clearly"s.

Oh you mean this?


Let me break it down to you....

The above was doing this really really fast:


While spraying out liquid fuel. the light then hit it at an odd angle thus produceing what you saw. The blue in the middle was the corkscrew of smoke, and the white the fuel.

Based on that.. and my general knowledge of rockets... Im going to bet that my guess posted above is prolly correct.

What you have, is some type of missile/rocket/booster that is either comming down or going up while leaking fuel... and the "thing" you see is a sonic boom as it breaks the sound barrier.



**EDIT***
Better yet... look here.. it confirms what i've said.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1234773/The-answer-mystery-Norways-spiral-light-display-Was-failed-Russian-Bulava-missile-test.html

The swirls thing looks like someone could have easily made that in any photo editing program.

The lens flare filter really is the downfall of civilization...

You guys... These recent "UFO's" are nothing more than a test launching of a new type of rocket talked about here

http://www.physorg.com/news174031552.html

These are a new experiential form of rocket fuel and no-doubtingly these are just classified tests from the 2ond and 3rd largest current space programs. (Russia's and China's)

Red_Lives wrote:You guys... These recent "UFO's" are nothing more than a test launching of a new type of rocket talked about here

http://www.physorg.com/news174031552.html

These are a new experiential form of rocket fuel and no-doubtingly these are just classified tests from the 2ond and 3rd largest current space programs. (Russia's and China's)

Plasma rockets are not powerful enough to fly within earths gravity and they also don't leave titanic vapor trails. That is most certainly not what this is unless it was shot out of a catapult or is being held up by some balloons.

alone no, but it could be a new type of design that uses this technology to make takeoff cheaper and easier.

Red_Lives wrote:alone no, but it could be a new type of design that uses this technology to make takeoff cheaper and easier.

No... Not really. Plasma rockets exist because of the realities of space flight and the inefficiency of chemical power sources over interstellar distances. They can be powered by nuclear reactors or even solar panels (with enough energy storage). They are also huge, weak, and utterly incapable of doing anything but sitting there burning the ground if you try and take off with one. They do absolutely nothing to aid conventional rockets.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Red_Lives wrote:alone no, but it could be a new type of design that uses this technology to make takeoff cheaper and easier.

No... Not really. Plasma rockets exist because of the realities of space flight and the inefficiency of chemical power sources over interstellar distances. They can be powered by nuclear reactors or even solar panels (with enough energy storage). They are also huge, weak, and utterly incapable of doing anything but sitting there burning the ground if you try and take off with one. They do absolutely nothing to aid conventional rockets.

Oh well, then that just leaves aliens sending scout craft to prepare their invasion for 2012!

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

thats cute. when you learned that being hyper literal on the interwebs made you seem cooler, did you get excited?

Not really
Cool ain't my bucket of chum.

I don't really know what hyper literal means and have never used the expression "interwebs"

I was just amused by the implication that you thought it better to embrace an irrational approach.
You appear to be saying that you are keeping an open mind, which is good and sensible.
But then suggest what it might be based on nothing other than the fact it sounds cool.
In which case it could be Jim Morrisson riding on a storm.

There is keeping an open mind and there is saying you are keeping an open mind as an excuse for wild speculation.
That would not be so bad if you were not chastising others for taking a rational approach.

Try looking up Occam's Razor on the interwebs

Try not presuming that I haven't. I am very familiar with Occam's Razor, have you read any of Carl Sagan's work? He deals with the fine line between scientific fact and speculation quite often.

J.Black wrote:@Urban: Fail

A few threads ago, you called me out as a physicist. You failed. Heavily; claiming that you had studied to Phd level, at MiT none-the-less, something approaching a 'masters level' of research :(

You have no experience of high level physics. Please stop posting your nonsense in OT

Just because you think it's nonsense, doesn't mean that it is. I NEVER claimed I studied at a PHD level, I NEVER said ANYTHING about MiT, you are putting words in my mouth. I believe I said that I had put as much research into the subject we were debating as a student researching at PHD level paper, and I honestly believe that I had. I don't have a masters or a PhD, but I am almost done with my second degree. I am not an idiot. I have admitted already, multiple times, that I got defensive and pissy, but in all honesty, OT is full of know-it-all pricks who act the same way I do. Why don't you try being nicer when you address me. And please, don't ever put words in my mouth again.

I doubt you have any experience in high level physics yourself, kiddo.



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Red_Lives wrote:You guys... These recent "UFO's" are nothing more than a test launching of a new type of rocket talked about here

http://www.physorg.com/news174031552.html

These are a new experiential form of rocket fuel and no-doubtingly these are just classified tests from the 2ond and 3rd largest current space programs. (Russia's and China's)

See? that is fething cool, to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

focusedfire wrote:

IG_urban wrote:if you are going to be a smart ass, at least be more clever.

@IG_urban- How about more overt. Your know it all attitude does come off as insulting to those of us who have served in the military and seen similar things.

hey...hey buddy....psst....read the whole thread before you post.

IG_urban wrote:Besides, I believe I said that I DOUBT any of you have seen a actual rocket launch, and at that time, I was referring to the current posters in the thread. I have already stated that I get defensive and hot headed, but even in the midst of that, I still leave a margin for my own error, hence the use of the word "doubt"

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think that the second less likely circumstance you posted is really cool, and if it WAS that, neat.

I'm worried for the chap who is trying to stick his head in the plasma chamber
please don't try that at home children

I just read this whole thread. It seems to follow this particular line:-

IG: Hey guys, check this out, now keep an open mind, and debate what it could be!
Poster X: Rocket.
Poster Y: Rocket.
IG: No way! You guys can't know it's a rocket! Rockets don't do that, and you two have clearly never seen one, so how would you know?
Poster X: (link) That's a rocket doing just that.
Poster Y: I've seen rockets. They do that.
IG: You guys aren't keeping an open mind! You just assume it's a rocket when it could be something else!
Poster X: Could be. But probably isn't. Rockets do that. Therefore it's probably a rocket.
IG: Yeah, but because of reasons A,B, and C, the facts don't add up! We could all be being lied to!
Poster Z: Looks like a rocket to me.
Poster Y: Reasons A,B, & C are invalid because of D,E, & F. Therefore it's probably a rocket.
IG: Yeah, but we can't ever know anything for sure! I asked you guys to keep an open mind, god, you all suck!

Sorry IG, but that's really how it's coming across here to the casual reader. I'd suggest stopping digging before you reach China.

Ketera said what I would have... without the overall seal-clubbing on IG_Urban for believing, or more likely, trying to get us to believe this bull gak...

the links provided bared a slight resemblance, so the use of the word "exact" is faulty here..


it's ok, next time I will just remember to agree with the majority, like the rest of the younger generations do... have fun being sheep.


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and by the way, I've always wanted to visit China...

IG_urban wrote:the links provided bared a slight resemblance, so the use of the word "exact" is faulty here..


it's ok, next time I will just remember to agree with the majority, like the rest of the younger generations do... have fun being sheep.

Just form a defense thats better than "Keep an open mind" when positing something that runs counter to common logic. Also walolololololololol sheep.

if I tried that, Shuma, I would have a lot more flame gak to deal with than I am currently, OT on dakka is one of the narrow minded places I have ever posted.

I may just go back to reddit, and just use the good ol' dakka for my painting blog I need to update...

You know, it's funny, but usually, the people who are telling you to question everything dislike their own theories being questioned in turn.

Example:-An acquaintance of mine was ranting about how the Bilderberg group controlled the world. I asked him how he knew that. He said, 'because lots of important people are invited, and no-one knows what goes on inside'. I replied with the suggestion that maybe, just maybe, it was a group for discussing things of economic benefit, rather than world domination?

He immediately said that was rubbish, and he knew they ruled the world. I asked him how he knew. He replied that basically, some guy had posted online saying they did who claimed to be an ex-member.

Naturally, I questioned the veracity of such an anonymous and baseless source. He then told me he couldn't be bothered to discuss this kind of thing with me, because I was clearly a sheep who would believe whatever he was told.

Kind of like here in fact.

It makes me wonder how when they question the official line/common sense solution, they're being free thinking non conformist individuals, but when I question their even less credible evidence, I'm a sheep.

Hey... you.

If the majority agrees on something... that is usually because THEY are right.

"Daemonhunters are the greetest!!!11!/one11!!!!"
"No"
"Nope."
"No, XYZ are better because ---"
"Whatever! You're all sheep who don't know anything!!!!/one111!!!11!!"



They even gave examples, "keep an open mind" is not a valid counter-argument.

IG_urban wrote:if I tried that, Shuma, I would have a lot more flame gak to deal with than I am currently, OT on dakka is one of the narrow minded places I have ever posted.

I may just go back to reddit, and just use the good ol' dakka for my painting blog I need to update...

Yes, go back to your herd of sheep. That'll show us. ironic turnaround!

dude, I got gakked upon since started this topic. It was not people "nicely" offering their opposing opinions, from the get go I was getting skullbashed and ridiculed for suggesting that it was anything else other than a rocket. I even said, many times, that it COULD BE a rocket, and I kept trying to push my point, because it's my opinion, that maybe it wasn't. Besides my first post, I never said anybody's ideas were stupid, yet I got made fun of almost the entire topic. It's happened before on here, I get heated, I know I do, but a lot of other people do as well, nobody seems to be accountable for their own bad behavior on here, I REALLY try to, sometimes I fail, but I try....


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ShumaGorath wrote:

IG_urban wrote:if I tried that, Shuma, I would have a lot more flame gak to deal with than I am currently, OT on dakka is one of the narrow minded places I have ever posted.

I may just go back to reddit, and just use the good ol' dakka for my painting blog I need to update...

Yes, go back to your herd of sheep. That'll show us. ironic turnaround!

I have no need to show you anything, I just think that people on reddit are more open in their ways of thinking, there is a short list of know it all's on this site, and their behavior is the same in every topic they post in, there are debates on reddit, but they are a lot more light-hearted, and when people act like dicks, they get banned.

IG_urban wrote:dude, I got gakked upon since started this topic. It was not people "nicely" offering their opposing opinions, from the get go I was getting skullbashed and ridiculed for suggesting that it was anything else other than a rocket. I even said, many times, that it COULD BE a rocket, and I kept trying to push my point, because it's my opinion, that maybe it wasn't. Besides my first post, I never said anybody's ideas were stupid, yet I got made fun of almost the entire topic. It's happened before on here, I get heated, I know I do, but a lot of other people do as well, nobody seems to be accountable for their own bad behavior on here, I REALLY try to, sometimes I fail, but I try....

You pushed your point because it was your opinion, then you lament that others push their points. When you throw around things like "arrogant" or "sheep" you're not winning yourself favors. Try not to decry the lack of accountability when you're attempting to backpedal away from your own actions by justifying them because your opinion is the minority.

I have no need to show you anything, I just think that people on reddit are more open in their ways of thinking, there is a short list of know it all's on this site, and their behavior is the same in every topic they post in, there are debates on reddit, but they are a lot more light-hearted, and when people act like dicks, they get banned.

It's quite likely that people are more open on reddit, but attempting to gauge the openness of a community with a UFO thread (when it's clearly a rocket of some kind) is a poor choice.

IG
It's not a question of flock mentality.
It could be a super cool new Chinese weapon.
or it could just be a rocket.

As you are aware of Occam's Razor, try applying the principle to this scenario.

Now without having any scientific background it seems to me that the symmetry of the vapour suggests a bullet shaped object. A bit like a rocket. Chances are it is a rocket.

That isn't being dogmatic, it is being pragmatic. There is still an option for accepting other possibilities should further evidence come to light.

F22 going supersonic

The videos not something going supersonic damnit, thats not how physics works. Breaking the sound barrier doesn't create a half mile wide vapor trail.

People only jumped down your throat after you insulted them.

I found the post against ff my favorite so far. You're obviously superior to all us sheep eh? Have fun being a shark.

I'm glad you read through my posts.

So you're glad that your posts have caused the community some distress...?

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:IG
It's not a question of flock mentality.
It could be a super cool new Chinese weapon.
or it could just be a rocket.

As you are aware of Occam's Razor, try applying the principle to this scenario.

Now without having any scientific background it seems to me that the symmetry of the vapour suggests a bullet shaped object. A bit like a rocket. Chances are it is a rocket.

That isn't being dogmatic, it is being pragmatic. There is still an option for accepting other possibilities should further evidence come to light.

F22 going supersonic

I have said so many times now, it COULD be a rocket. It probably is, it doesn't change the fact that it could also be something else. It made news, stopped air traffic, and I have never seen anything like it, I was intrigued, and my imagination went wild with what it could be. So yeah, I will get defensive when I get talked to like a small child claiming that there are monsters under the bed.

You know what the first thing I looked up when I saw this? rockets. For about 3 hours, trying to find somethign similar, I couldn't. I found things that vagely looked like it...but nothing convincing me that it was one.


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Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:So you're glad that your posts have caused the community some distress...?

most have done that at one point or another, if you don't like it,


see more Señor Gif

Well they weren't ignorant donkey-caves afterwards...

Your first post, yes, you were showing some doubt.

Your second post... christ you're an expert on the subject eh?

Oh, look, he is trolling after all. Cute.

when did I act like an expert on the subject?

If you call defending my position in the midst of the majority against me trolling...whatever floats your boat...