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Poor grammar is one area of potential police brutality that MODs should leave to the users. Dakka as a community has something of a reputation for being firm but fair and, given the light touch that the MODs exercise, I'm guessing this refers to the users. If you see poor grammar, call people out on it. I'm not talking about typos, obviously, or even something like consistently confusing "they're" with "their." Keep in mind that not everyone here speaks English natively. But the sort of posts with every word missing letters are fair game, IMO. Point it out. Point out how slowed it is (the grammar, not the user). Refrain from engaging the content of the message, if you can even figure out what it is, until it is rephrased in a coherent way. That should do the trick.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with Manchu.

There's no need for any real enforcement of grammar in Dakka and such an article would be seen only by tumbleweeds IMHO.

As has been said, you'll almost always be corrected if your grammar is particularly bad and frankly it doesn't need enforcing. Some people do it simply by accident or on occasion but it's not a major problem.

Don't fix what isn't broken...

hungryp wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

illuknisaa wrote:Should there be like a grammar article or perhaps sticky thread about some basic grammar rules? As it seems that many people seem to do many mistakes in writing words or sentense's construct is f ed up.

Could we start with the above quoted post?

Well, like we could, but like, that might not be, you know, very nice.

You mean there's a rule about being nice here? Interesting.

So does the grammar in the ork codex make you guys grumpy?

No, that's a dialectic thing. It may bother certain people, but it's not really an English grammar issue.

No coz dat iz wot the Orkses speakz.
It also adds humour to the grimgakk

A couple or so years back on the Privateer Press forums a guy tried to proclaim himself "Grammar Thrall" (it was hinted that this was put into motion and secretly endorsed by PP themselves).

He took it upon himself to try to police everyone's grammar: pointing out people's mistakes in an often condescending way and generally acting like a first rate "I'm smarter than you" d-bag.

It didn't last long, as people in general took exception to his attitude and demeanor and intentionally posted bad grammar, ignored his posts, and took every opportunity to point out his own misuse of grammar and improper spellings.

Eventually he quietly faded into the sunset never to be seen again...

Good times.

fellblade wrote:I believe, deep in my heart of hearts, that someone who writes poorly is. . . stupid. Valid or not, this perception colors my interactions with them.

There is a certain type of poster who believes that no matter how he abuses the language, we should all treat him with respect and answer his question- even when we cannot tell what his question is. This is just rude, and I wholeheartedly endorse the vicious mocking of such individuals until they cry.

Hear, hear.

That is a very unfair. There will be people with less than perfect grammar who are trying their best.

It is not at all the same as someone who simply can't be bothered.

fellblade
your moniker is a proper noun, old thing, and requires a big F

IMHO I don't think grammar is a huge issue, If I can remotely guess on what someone is saying then I'm fine with that. I don't see how people can take grammar so seriously, to each his own I guess.

Grammar can't be instituted into the forums...

Many people learned English as their second language...

Actually, if people have learned English as a second language, chances are they've actually had to confront the beast known as English grammar, rather than being cheerfully ignorant of it as so many native speakers remain. The worst grammar always seems to come from people with American or British flags, followed sharply by Australians. I think the problem is that they rely on their own innate sense of grammar, which is keyed to their dialect, rather than the 'standard' that gets taught to people as an international language. The unkind part of me would suggest that it's perhaps because people in these parts of the world are renowned for their monolingual handicap, but then again I myself only speak English as a second language, with my first being Bad English.

I see that Canadians are not on the list of bad 'uns
have also noticed that trend. Guess it's the French speaking element that buffs the Canadian stats

Agree that it would be near impossible to police and any attempt will only encourage deliberate unintelligibility.

The percentage of really bad posts is very low imho

In point of fact, bad grammar, txt splng and L337 speke are against the user posting guidelines.

There is a Red Triangle button to enable moderators to dispense swift grammatical justice.

We are just not fanatics about it. You have to post something fairly bad.

As I was saying, it would be really easy to police.

The Mods could have a little button to perform swiift retribution on offending posts.

People post here for informal discussions of shared interests.
True that most cannot be bothered to type to high grammatical standard, but that is the nature of "informal discussion". People do not speak in perfect formal grammer and have a tendency, when informally chatting on forums like this, to type the way they would speak to their friends, family and casual associates. Enforcing a formalized prefect grammer standard would cause many people who would normally post to seek out another forum that held a less stringent grammatical standard.

If the grammatical standard of the average post here is a problem for any single person here, perhaps they need to look at themselves as the source of real issue. Typically, I find teachers of high school and college English courses are the ones that have the most issues with both spoken and written grammar, as presented in informal conversation.

fellblade wrote:I believe, deep in my heart of hearts, that someone who writes poorly is. . . stupid. Valid or not, this perception colors my interactions with them.

There is a certain type of poster who believes that no matter how he abuses the language, we should all treat him with respect and answer his question- even when we cannot tell what his question is. This is just rude, and I wholeheartedly endorse the vicious mocking of such individuals until they cry.

Careful. Some of us just can't type.

Grammar is, fundamentally, a set of rules that allow people to communicate. If a post is written such that it can be read and followed, than the grammar is pretty much by definition "good enough." Yeah, the differences between your and you're might be confusing, but 90% of the time it's clear from context what the writer means. There are some posts that are simply intelligible, to be sure, but we don't need Grammar Police citing posters for the incorrect usage of its and it's (I'm a well educated man and screw that one up more often than not).

I'm all for calling people on writing that makes posts difficult to read, but I have no interest in nitpicking.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:I see that Canadians are not on the list of bad 'uns
have also noticed that trend. Guess it's the French speaking element that buffs the Canadian stats

Grammar is all about following rules and being polite, two of the greatest strengths of Canadians.

Like Polonius, I'm far more concerned with a post being intelligible than being grammatically immaculate, but there's a degree to which the two are inexorably linked. Drawing exclusively on personal and somewhat limited anecdotal evidence, I also agree with his assessment of Canadians.

Personally, I do make assumptions about users based on grammar. Of course, grammar is but one of several factors that influence my initial assessment. Legibility is the first thing I notice because, quite simply, the words are the vehicle. A pleasant tone, wit, content, etc. all help, of course, but good luck conveying all that in two lines devoid of punctuation, complete words, capitalization, and the like.

I think the problem is that some people aren't properly trained to write clearly and some simply don't care to. I know people that ramble as disjointedly as the worst posters on Dakka and will try to reduce their half of any text message conversation to no more than five characters, but they can still write a passable collegiate-level paper if put to the task. For some personal/cultural reason, they just seem to have no interest in carrying that skill into their non-academic lives.

Personally, I write in a similar manner whether it's an analysis of Anglo-Saxon hagiography or C&C on a new painter's first orks. Why? This is how I speak. Not all of the time, of course, but certainly most of it. When I don't, it's most likely a result of "speaking to my audience" which, I realize, might make me sound a bit pretentious , but also speaks to part of the reason the "grammar problem" is endemic: Grammar nazis look like pricks and internet/text speak is socially acceptable, if not expected, for the younger generation(s).

I genuinely want to help people with my admittedly limited knowledge, so I strive for the utmost clarity, even if it means a dreaded wall of text. If you read it, chances are you'll understand it. If you don't bother, it's your loss. You can skip my carefully worded wall just as I reserve the right to gloss over your illegible dribble. Do I wish more posts were like mine? I most certainly do. Would that make Dakka a better place for all? I doubt it.

Poor grammar I can deal with as I can usually piece together what is being said. What I really have a problem with is lack of punctuation and proper capitalization, both of which usually go hand in hand with shorthanded writing.

Sure it's nice if everything is prim and proper, but it really can't be expected.

Deadshane1 wrote:Knowing your grammar is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse, or helping your uncle jack off a horse.

*cringe* I can't believe I'm getting into this.

For the above joke to make more sense, you have to show the difference between using and not using an appositive, rather than using capitalization. Appositives are separated from the rest of the sentence by commas.

"Helping your uncle, Jack, off a horse" vs "Helping your uncle jack off a horse."

This also works with any other sort of noun that can have an appositive, not just one denoting familial relationship.

"Helping your teacher, Jack, off a horse."
"Helping your friend, Jack, off a horse."
"Helping your arch-nemesis, Jack, off a horse." etc.

(Yes, I'm a grammar geek.)

Brother SRM wrote:I will personally kill every one of you who uses L33t sp34k, texting speak, or types like they're on baby's first keyboard.

I like you. You're my kinda preosn.

Kilkrazy wrote:
We are just not fanatics about it. You have to post something fairly bad.

Yo,

Anonymous Dakka User wrote:rying that i eally cool but unaloud Fact im sorry but their just not and in fact in one of the codexs it even sais that but saying thattheir faces can be painted red (my friend wouldnt play against me other wise if i said their faces were naturaly re so paint them green then red

'nuff said.