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My allegiance is still to Leman Russ.

However I do remember my Chaos roots...

utan wrote:This poll assumes one was sympathetic toward the Imperium at the outset and that the books could only make you more sympathetic toward the Traitors or leave your view unchanged.

Hmm, reread the options.

Is it bad that I become super competitive when my templars take on CSM? Only that match up though!

As long as you're not being TFG about it.

Shadowbrand I am with you my allegiance lies with Sanguinius and the Blood Angels but yes I do remember my filthy chaos roots and the good ole days of being a word bearer oh how I miss the chaos

Definitely not TFG manchu, its just that its the games I'm most determined to win!

Manchu wrote:

utan wrote:This poll assumes one was sympathetic toward the Imperium at the outset and that the books could only make you more sympathetic toward the Traitors or leave your view unchanged.

Hmm, reread the options.

I guess the options just don't capture my personal experience. I would say yes, the books have changed my views but I would not say the traitors were being petty or that they had some good points. Oh well...

I guess you could just post about it . . .

Whoa there Manchu, let's not clog this discussion board up with discussion. It's probably against forum rules somewhere.

I think I can convince the guys to approve an indulgence here.

My question is.... Are the Dark Angels LoyaL?!?!?!??!?

Which ones?

Manchu wrote:Which ones?

The so called loyal faction. I can't tell.

Asherian Command wrote:My question is.... Are the Dark Angels LoyaL?!?!?!??!?

yes no and maybe

Devastator wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:My question is.... Are the Dark Angels LoyaL?!?!?!??!?

yes no and maybe

That is not helpful in the brightest sense of the this sentence.

The ones who changed their armor to green are loyal. The ones who kept their armor black are not. Except for the ones who still wear black armor and ride motorcycles. Although some of the ones in black armor that ride motorcycles but go around with the ones in black armor who do not ride motorcycles are disloyal, too. Then there are the ones who go around with the ones in green armor except they wear bone-colored terminator armor and they are still loyal, probably the most loyal, except that they have a tendancy to stop whatever they're doing when the ones who kept the black armor (but do not ride motorcyles--again, in most cases) are rumored to be around.

I hope that clears it up for you.

Manchu wrote:The ones who changed their armor to green are loyal. The ones who kept their armor black are not. Except for the ones who still wear black armor and ride motorcycles. Although some of the ones in black armor that ride motorcycles but go around with the ones in black armor who do not ride motorcycles are disloyal, too. Then there are the ones who go around with the ones in green armor except they wear bone-colored terminator armor and they are still loyal, probably the most loyal, except that they have a tendancy to stop whatever they're doing when the ones who kept the black armor (but do not ride motorcyles--again, in most cases) are rumored to be around.

I hope that clears it up for you.

Well I knew that.
I mean the Dark Angels seem to be evil. As they destroyed an entire Black Templar Crusade.

Asherian Command wrote:

Devastator wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:My question is.... Are the Dark Angels LoyaL?!?!?!??!?

yes no and maybe

That is not helpful in the brightest sense of the this sentence.

that what you get from asking stupid stuff

oh are the ultramarines loyal??!

Asherian Command wrote:I mean the Dark Angels seem to be evil. As they destroyed an entire Black Templar Crusade.

Come again?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, okay. It seems like this was from the Eye of Terror campaign and involved the BT capturing and refusing to hand over one of the Fallen. The DA will absolutely not tolerate the idea of anyone finding out about their secrets so they eradicated the smaller BT force along with the Fallen those BT had captured.

The answer to this question is: it's a secret.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I doubt they'lll give a specific answer because that would get rid of one the big parts of dark angel's story, that they have a dark secret.

Manchu wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:I mean the Dark Angels seem to be evil. As they destroyed an entire Black Templar Crusade.

Come again?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, okay. It seems like this was from the Eye of Terror campaign and involved the BT capturing and refusing to hand over one of the Fallen. The DA will absolutely not tolerate the idea of anyone finding out about their secrets so they eradicated the smaller BT force along with the Fallen those BT had captured.

I hadn't heard of this - could anyone point me to a source so I can have a read?

It definitely has muddied the waters when it comes to the heresy. But given the choice I would still side with the Imperium.

I don't see how turning against the emperor is seen as needing to be convincing.

He's a sociopathic tyrant who bred you for war. (If "you" were a primarch).

Whats not to hate?


You might say its pretty obvious early on in most primarch's falls, that chaos is really evil, but these guys have been genociding on command the majority of their lives.

Whats the big differnce between killing a planet of people who refuse the imperium and killing a planet of people because it pleases the gods?

EDIT so for the question, No HH hasn't changed my opinion that Chaos is an ok choice. Being loyal is an ok choice too. Chaos is just more interesting from a reading point of view IMO.

liam0404 wrote:

Manchu wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:I mean the Dark Angels seem to be evil. As they destroyed an entire Black Templar Crusade.

Come again?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, okay. It seems like this was from the Eye of Terror campaign and involved the BT capturing and refusing to hand over one of the Fallen. The DA will absolutely not tolerate the idea of anyone finding out about their secrets so they eradicated the smaller BT force along with the Fallen those BT had captured.

I hadn't heard of this - could anyone point me to a source so I can have a read?

Codex BT page 20 / 998M41 Ophidiumgolf.

1hadhq wrote:

liam0404 wrote:

Manchu wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:I mean the Dark Angels seem to be evil. As they destroyed an entire Black Templar Crusade.

Come again?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, okay. It seems like this was from the Eye of Terror campaign and involved the BT capturing and refusing to hand over one of the Fallen. The DA will absolutely not tolerate the idea of anyone finding out about their secrets so they eradicated the smaller BT force along with the Fallen those BT had captured.

I hadn't heard of this - could anyone point me to a source so I can have a read?

Codex BT page 20 / 998M41 Ophidiumgolf.

yep. I remember that. Ginorian gulf?

I would say that I remained about the same.

I really don't dig on Chaos Space Marines, because I have a fundamental loathing of traitors and betrayers. Factor in what they did to Ferrus Manus on Isstvan and it pretty much seals the deal, for me.

For the Emperor!

Interestingly enough, I found myself neither hating the books, nor liking them, putting me firmly in the "didn't change my opinion" section.

I wasn't a huge fan of any of the books post-Fulgrim, but some of the earlier stuff like Horus Rising and False Gods was nice.

Wait your saying Thousand Sons?

It hasn't really made me reconsider my allegiances, I never liked traitors and I still do.

I do however see much more character behind the Primarchs and Space Marines, I can also see more reasoning behind their betrayal. However, for me, they are still fools. They still allied with the Chaos Gods. Chaos Gods! I could understand them rebelling, but why would you think that allying with the likes of Chaos was a good idea?!
Blood Sacrifices? Sounds lovely.
Horrible Mutations? Hmmm, hug me now.
Manipulation of you (Primarchs)? Wow, I can trust you!
Turning people crazy? Does sound appealing.

I can understand them betraying, I cannot - and still cannot - see why they would listen to the Chaos Gods?! They would have no reason to believe them. None. Listen to them? Yes, investigate what they are saying further? Definitely. listen to just them, despite the galaxy hanging in the balance? Most certainly not.
I think the quote in my signature sums up why the Chaos gods shouldn't be followed. It did show some underlying reasoning behind their actions, it still shows no sense to following Chaos.

However, what the Horus Heresy series has made me think about/ change allegiance about is the Emperor, himself and his actions. He was significantly flawed despite his godliness, something I at-least didn't know beforehand.
The Horus Heresy didn't really make me reconsider my position on traitors, however it has made me significantly question the Emperor.

Oh, the Horus Heresy series also helped me realise how much of a douche Leman Russ is.

Just Dave:

Tzeentch managed to save the Thousand Suns, so Chaos certainly made Magnus an offer he couldn't refuse.

The Death Guard were likewise first doomed and then saved by Nurgle.

The Emperor's Children basically came out of the closet and the World Eaters simply had to stop washing their armour.

The Iron Warriors didn't feel like all of their blood, sweat, and tears on the part of the Imperium wasn't appreciated, whereas the Chaos Gods at least can be used.

The Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, and Night Lords were all aware of the Imperium's foundational problems, ranging from its philosophical inadequacy, to its religious oppression, to its active hypocrisy in censoring those carrying out its program of Unity by Force.

Interestingly the Sons of Horus seem to have fallen for a variety of reasons, namely that they saw the elevation of Horus to Warmaster both as a betrayl of the Great Crusade, and elevating Horus to almost his rightful level of authority. Horus deals with the Dark Powers out of pride, believing himself to be able to get the best of a deal with entities that his father couldn't outwit. Dude's got the entitlement complex that only the greatest of the Primarchs could have.

I have to admit I find Angron's one-dimensional portrayl so far is kind of boring.