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halonachos wrote:Major be Biochemistry, what you got for that homie?
A tuition bill the likes of which could knock down a skyscraper.
Yep, but totally worth it.
Also, confirmation bias, just had my cognitive thinking final today. Funny in my own mind.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I know everything in medicine is different, I help an infectious disease specialist with filing every once and awhile and I see what he has to know/do. I've also shadowed surgeons and really prefer surgery over the medicine part of medicine.
Working in the ER for my EMT class showed me that the ER is pretty cool, personal convictions make me want to help wounded soldiers before they get back to the mainland and maybe help some wounded civvies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/14 19:33:22
halonachos wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post: I know everything in medicine is different, I help an infectious disease specialist with filing every once and awhile and I see what he has to know/do. I've also shadowed surgeons and really prefer surgery over the medicine part of medicine.
Working in the ER for my EMT class showed me that the ER is pretty cool, personal convictions make me want to help wounded soldiers before they get back to the mainland and maybe help some wounded civvies.
EMT is like a cult lol. I hang with a few EMT's from Oakland and Richmond on occasion....HARD AS A COFFIN NAIL!!!!!
I can respect the inclination towards surgical as opposed to behavioral. God knows the pay is better!
Personally I'm addicted to the intricacies of the human mind though....people never cease to amaze me in both the beautiful and the horrific.
Final was upsetting, relatively easy and a couple that could've went either way and then there was a section that was more like philosophy than psychology. Stupid 'decision making' and 'rational thinking'.
I did get availability heuristics and conjunction rule confused though, no biggie.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Peter Wiggin wrote:
halonachos wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post: I know everything in medicine is different, I help an infectious disease specialist with filing every once and awhile and I see what he has to know/do. I've also shadowed surgeons and really prefer surgery over the medicine part of medicine.
Working in the ER for my EMT class showed me that the ER is pretty cool, personal convictions make me want to help wounded soldiers before they get back to the mainland and maybe help some wounded civvies.
EMT is like a cult lol. I hang with a few EMT's from Oakland and Richmond on occasion....HARD AS A COFFIN NAIL!!!!!
I can respect the inclination towards surgical as opposed to behavioral. God knows the pay is better!
Personally I'm addicted to the intricacies of the human mind though....people never cease to amaze me in both the beautiful and the horrific.
Kamikaze pilots wore helmets.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/14 19:43:45
halonachos wrote:I hope so, with comments such as,
wiggins wrote:Please try to treat schizophrenia, diabetes, and a host of other treatment concerns with surgery. Dumb comment is dumb.
it shows that he's either trolling or so dense that he doesn't realise that I don't want to treat schizophrenia and other diseases, but instead would rather have the instant gratification of a job well done.
Plus, its called a Pancreas Transplant. Really dangerous, but it does cure diabetes using surgery.
Major be Biochemistry, what you got for that homie?
Why would you not want to treat disorders that cripple people for life from either a physical or mental standpoint? Didn't know about the pancreas thing though, very interesting.
My major was secondary education (social sciences) with a minor in modern military theory (yes, strange I know). I also hold a CAADAC certification in the state of California, an AA in Automotive occupational science, Volvo corporate training, and a half dozen tech related certifications. Sister went for neuroscience and did great. Now she works in a pet store and lives with parents cause no jobs out here. :(
Currently I'm slowly plodding away at my LCSW in the hopes of entering the administrative realm.
i beleive he was talking about how removing a bullet has an imediate effect....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Peter Wiggin wrote:
Gibbsey wrote:
Ahtman wrote:
Gibbsey wrote:
Ahtman wrote:Each pill costs twenty cents to manufacture...except the first one. The first one cost 30 million (at least). Bringing a new medication from research through trials and testing to the market costs a boatload of cash.
Sorry Ahtman im going to have to disagree with you... it'll cost alot lot more than 30 million
I can't list the R&D cost of every single drug out there you know. I was just using the .20 to 30,000,000.00 as an general example. I debated on 30 mill or 300 mill but in the end I flipped a coin.
Yep i know i was also pointing out the cost of a new production line/ new equipment for the new drug, also the cost of failed runs (bad batches can happen) and broken machinery (A machine being down on an active production line can cost million in a few hours).
The cost of production is not proportional to the cost of said drugs under the current healthcare system. I'd link statistical data, but its so glaringly obvious to anyone that's had any contact with medical care that I shouldn't have to.
And its glaringly obvious to someone like me who has a family member who is partly responsible for keeping a production line running that this stuff is expensive, not just for the current batch but future batches or different drugs. Do you have any idea how much inestment there needs to be to create a brand new production line? Also RandD is very important to these companies, it not just the cost of the research its the equipment (sometimes research is given the brand new machines for their work).
I know its completely surprizing that a privatly owned company would want to make money off of their new drug.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/12/14 19:54:14
kronk wrote:Do they make a pill that will stop ke$ha from making more songs?
Yes but its $25MM a pill....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ahtman wrote:
Peter Wiggin wrote:
Personally I'm addicted to the intricacies of the human mind though...
Well that explains the Volvo corporate training.
Don't with Volvos. They have a special motivational unit. You ever see anyone die from Swedish meatballs? You don't know. YOU DON'T KNOW!!!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/14 20:06:35
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
This is why I dont take meds until Im dying and in the hospital, and I have no other choice. It seems to keep me happy, as well as not give those basterds my money!
Americans may not be aware that some of the world's most successful pharmaceutical companies are British.
I was listening to an interview the other night with the head of Glaxo Smithkline Beecham, discussing their drug R&D strategy.
He said it used to be standard to spend 15% of your profit on R&D, but this was stupid. No-one had analysed whether it was cost-effective, or how the money was spent, or explained why you should stop or start development just because this year you sold a lot more or a lot less flu vaccine.
Polonius wrote:Well, if they change the drug, they get a new patent, but the original patent will still expire. You just have the exclusive rights to sell the "new" drug. Generics can go nuts.
The other question I have about this chart is that it shows that marketing costs twice of what R&D does. Is that high for an industry? I mean, it seems bad, but it's really a non-sequitor. I'm sure the auto industry spends more on ads than on R&D. So, while it seems outrageous, it may not be.
The auto-industry is in the business of manufacture - their primary costs, and the primary value they add to society, comes from taking lumps of steel and turning them into cars.
On the other hand, the primary value that drug companies provide is to research and develop new drugs. So when it turns out that primary service isn't where research companies spend their money, then you have a problem.
In other news, Fraz's new ploy of 'I deem you not allowed to discuss this topic of conversation' is getting really lame.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
RLS sucks balls..trust me. My ankle is fused due to some shoddy VA hospital bone graft work...muscles wont relax because I cant move ankle in certain ways. So my ankle "bounces" for HOURS at night. It drives my wife crazy, and not in the good lets rip our clothes off way either.
Muscle relaxants make me hung over but some of the RLS drugs out there have at least cut down the time my leg bounces to about 30min as opposed to 3 hours.
sebster wrote:The auto-industry is in the business of manufacture - their primary costs, and the primary value they add to society, comes from taking lumps of steel and turning them into cars.
On the other hand, the primary value that drug companies provide is to research and develop new drugs. So when it turns out that primary service isn't where research companies spend their money, then you have a problem.
that's true. I guess you can replace that with another industry like software development then.
Polonius wrote:that's true. I guess you can replace that with another industry like software development then.
Sure, and if the software industry was spending more money on advertising than on research and development, they’d be in for just as much criticism. And... as I wrote that I wondered if it were true, a quick look on google didn't help so I wonder if anyone has a breakdown of costs in the software industry.
EDIT - I just looked up the Microsoft Annual report for 2010. They spent $13 billion in sales and marketing, and $9 billion in R&D. So that's not good, either.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/15 02:59:58
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Polonius wrote:that's true. I guess you can replace that with another industry like software development then.
Sure, and if the software industry was spending more money on advertising than on research and development, they’d be in for just as much criticism. And... as I wrote that I wondered if it were true, a quick look on google didn't help so I wonder if anyone has a breakdown of costs in the software industry.
EDIT - I just looked up the Microsoft Annual report for 2010. They spent $13 billion in sales and marketing, and $9 billion in R&D. So that's not good, either.
MS is played out. They've been playing catch-up with other companies for at least a decade.
Their main effort now, like a number of established software companies, is to force an unnecessary upgrade cycle that requires users to buy a new computer and suite of software every few years.
I am currently grappling with MS Office 2010, for which I am a pre-deployment compatibility tester in my company. I've haven't found anything good about it, all they seem to have done is pfaff around with the look and feel, the result of which is that many everyday commands have been hidden and changed to different menus, causing me to spend time looking up how to do things I already knew how to do in Office 2003.
Enough people around the internet are so annoyed by this that a shareware utility has been released to convert all the 2010 interface back to the 2003 interface. What does that tell us about MS research and development?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/15 13:39:19
I agree 100% with the OP's OP. I have some business at the only Hospital in the country which has a JCI certificate. It is known as one of the best hospitals in Japan. Patients come from all over Asia for surgery. That said, every time I am there, there is an army of salesmen from Japanese Pharmaceutical companies pushing their drugs on the doctors. The doctors at the hospital are notorious to locals for prescribing way too much medicine for an ailments. In my own case, I had athlete's foot and they prescribed 6 different medicines. All I wanted was some cream...:(
Polonius wrote:that's true. I guess you can replace that with another industry like software development then.
Sure, and if the software industry was spending more money on advertising than on research and development, they’d be in for just as much criticism. And... as I wrote that I wondered if it were true, a quick look on google didn't help so I wonder if anyone has a breakdown of costs in the software industry.
EDIT - I just looked up the Microsoft Annual report for 2010. They spent $13 billion in sales and marketing, and $9 billion in R&D. So that's not good, either.
Yea how much are they spending in advertising for BLOP?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
First of all people forget that the government subsidizes a lot of research and development. Its not shouldered entirely by pharma companies.
I don't know where those numbers come from on the first page but I can guarantee you their not right. Drug companies don't produce a 100 20mg prozacs for only 0.11 cents. Not even close. For instance, I work for a company that produces cell culture media for drug companies to grow their cells in which they can then extract drugs from. I just simplified that a lot but you get the gist. Heres a http://www.invitrogen.com/site/us/en/home/Products-and-Services/Applications/Cell-Culture/Mammalian-Cell-Culture.htmllink[/url] for the products I make. Look at the prices for a lot of these things. Even something relatively simple as 500mL of MEM, probably the cheapest thing we make is over 20.00. And trust me, your not going to extract 2 grams of viable product from that little amount of cells. Just the raw materials to either make or study drugs are enormously expensive. Unless you've ever worked in a lab you wouldn't know this, and you would believe the bull crap thats on the first page.
Do I think drug companies charge too much for a lot of their products? Yeah sometimes they do. But thats business Im sorry to say. But please don't keep up these theories that drug companies are this evil entity out to harm people. They've helped millions of times more people than they hurt.
DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Do I think drug companies charge too much for a lot of their products? Yeah sometimes they do. But thats business Im sorry to say. But please don't keep up these theories that drug companies are this evil entity out to harm people. They've helped millions of times more people than they hurt.
I don't think anyone is saying they're evil, they do help people. But, they ARE greedy. Not evil, not out to harm people, but rather, out to make as much value for themselves (and their shareholders) as possible.
Some (pure capitalists) would say that this is actually 'good'. You can't look at anything in a vacuum, and many retirees depend on getting a return on their investments to make their ends meet.
The problem isn't the companies, it's the rules that they play under. Granted, the pharma industry lobbies hard to keep those rules the way they are, but it's on the government to redress this, not on the industry. One sign that there's a problem... you have a fairly fixed market, that has seen ever increasing profits over the last decade (at least). For example, look at pfiser's annual profits: (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=PFE&annual). 37 billion dollar profit in 2007, 40 billion in 2008, 41 billion in 2009. And that's profit, not revenue. There aren't that many more people needing these drugs every year. How do they keep increasing their profit, year after year after year? At the expense of the public. There's little competition because of patents, and the prices are too high.
It's like people complaining about GW - ever increasing prices, no real alternatives exist - with the difference that GW is a hobby and a luxury that you don't need, and heart medicine and insulin keep you alive. Their customers really are trapped.
Oh thats definitely whats being stated, that they are EEEEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVIIIIIIILLLLLLLLL!!!
Just from the first page.
-Big pharma have run amok in America
-There’s no money in curing diabetes when treatment is more profitable.
-Remember, the ancestors of Big Pharma are the same criminals who started out importing Heroin and Morphine into the pre-revolution Colonies. They're still the same snake-oil salesmen. If they really spent so much time and money developing these poisons, then why do they have so many side effects, many of which are worse than the ailment that they allegedly treat?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/15 16:09:00
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
I understand what your saying Redbeard I just guess that Im a little biased as I don't reap any of those multi-billion dollar benefits lol so. Plus working for them is going to also skew my view as to where I tend to their side. But trust me there is a lot more drugs that get made that you've never heard of because they failed somewhere down the line. There is just so much money involved in this stuff it boggles my mind.
And for the record this is a prime example of why I support a state-sponsored healthcare system
A state-sponsored system doesn't alter the fact that companies will take whatever they can, within the rules that govern them.
One of the reasons that drug companies charge such outrageous prices is because of the insurance companies. They know that no one is going to pay $300/month on their own, but, if someone's insurance allows them both a group rate and will then pick up the tab, the company gets to sell the drug. The only ones who lose out are the uninsured.
Let's say the insurance companies didn't pick up these drug costs. Now the pharmaceuticals have to lower their prices to the point where people can actually afford it again.
Government sponsored healthcare doesn't change this (unless you're also talking about government sponsored pharmaceutic companies), all it does is shift that cost from the insurance companies to the taxpayers.
The correct 'fix' is to regulate the industries where the money is going to, not to change where the money come from. Treat insurance and pharmaceuticals as commodities, like water, electric, and gas. Cap malpractice awards. Change the underlying financial rules that the healthcare industry operates under, and it will become affordable again.
Imagine a world where a parent can take a child to see a doctor for a five-minute consultation (about all the time you spend with a doctor anyway) over a fever, and pay $10 for the visit. Not a $10 copay, but a $10 all-included cost. Assuming the doctor's time is well-scheduled, he's still billing roughly $200/hour, and that payment isn't breaking anyone's back. That's what five minutes of a doctor's time should cost, once you get all the BS out of the way. All the other money is going to leech industries.
A buddy took his soon to a doctor when his son fell and bit the end of his tongue off. The doctor looked at it for 5 minutes, told them it wasn't enough to worry about, gave him a lollipop and charged them $260 for the trouble...and that was the price with health insurance.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Ahtman wrote:A buddy took his soon to a doctor when his son fell and bit the end of his tongue off. The doctor looked at it for 5 minutes, told them it wasn't enough to worry about, gave him a lollipop and charged them $260 for the trouble...and that was the price with health insurance.
Which shows the entire problem with the healthcare industry, also doctors and hospitals regularly overcharge for services which results in insurance companies having to negotiate claims
What people don't realise is the whole system is being paid for, not just the 30 seconds to see the doctor.
The admin assistant who filled out the forms, the nurse who came in and tutted, the doctor who came in and said "don't worry about it, have a lollipop", the admin assistant who would do the paperwork to show you were discharged and put the stats forms into the system. The accounts clerk who arranged for the billing to appear on hospital records, the stores staff who stole/ordered the lollipop and the guy who cleaned the blood and lollipop flavoured goop on the floor. Heating, eletrical, maintenance as well as contents and buildings insurance.
None of it is free. Whilst it is a rip off and extortion a lot of this is driven by the economics from medical companies who charge stupid amounts for trolleys and healthcare waste disposal.
The UK system is funded by the Government but that is maintained by NHS contributions from our pay, we have no say in the matter. If the US went into that type of system it would be better for everyone as the costs even out but as a side result you could be supporting those who don't work and the insurance industry, as they know it, would collapse due to the medical insurance companies no longer being needed.
No easy answer.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/12/15 17:35:59
Ahtman wrote:A buddy took his soon to a doctor when his son fell and bit the end of his tongue off. The doctor looked at it for 5 minutes, told them it wasn't enough to worry about, gave him a lollipop and charged them $260 for the trouble...and that was the price with health insurance.
Which shows the entire problem with the healthcare industry, also doctors and hospitals regularly overcharge for services which results in insurance companies having to negotiate claims
If only the government could order that properly. Imagine a world where the government set those prices and costs, where someone couldn't over charge because of their greed. We could have $10 dollar visits any time. In fact all our healthcare would only cost $10. Wait, what did you say-unintended consequences, whats that?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
The Undying Spawn of Shub-Niggurath 
with Volvos. They have a special motivational unit. You ever see anyone die from Swedish meatballs? You don't know. YOU DON'T KNOW!!!
daily. Mostly about goddamn goldfish crackers EVERYWHERE.
