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Gah.

This is all to complicated. Aren't we way overdue for a one world government anyway?

China has proposed a world reserve currency that isn't staked to a nation, that's basically the first step.

dogma wrote:China has proposed a world reserve currency that isn't staked to a nation, that's basically the first step.

Would that work?

I'm not remotely qualified to comment on that.

I'll need to wait and see what Glenn Beck has to say about it.

Melissia wrote:Israel has to do its part, or it can expect more of its people to die.

LOL are you ****** mad!? I mean hell i hate terrorism and all crazy stuff that happens over there. But the kind of stuff the Israel military does violates a lot of the geneva convention protocols. Isreal military has killed TOOOOONS of innocents all in the name of safety and then continues to make outposts that arent even in their territory. I also love how the US millitary gets gak for killing innocents (which is obviously bad) but then Isreal goes completely of the radar. Bad stuff happens in that country for the word Safety, the military can often strap you onto tables and beat the living f*** out of you and get away for it, this actually happens a lot to people that arent jewish. I mean for national security purposes if you need to scout ahead and do so.... sure, go for it. However thats defintely not that case.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

dogma wrote:China has proposed a world reserve currency that isn't staked to a nation, that's basically the first step.

Would that work?

Right now? No, probably not. Just look at all the problems with the Euro.

Given an apparatus similar to the US Fed? Maybe, but that's a long way off.

Even if it did happen, the reserve currency wouldn't be something of the sort that mere mortals trade in.

dogma wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

dogma wrote:China has proposed a world reserve currency that isn't staked to a nation, that's basically the first step.

Would that work?

Right now? No, probably not. Just look at all the problems with the Euro.

Given an apparatus similar to the US Fed? Maybe, but that's a long way off.

Even if it did happen, the reserve currency wouldn't be something of the sort that mere mortals trade in.

For some reason I'm getting the mental image of Zeus reclining on a throne of World Curreny.

Monster Rain wrote:Gah.

This is all to complicated. Aren't we way overdue for a one world government anyway?

Yeah. How are we supposed to fend off the incoming hive fleet?

Cadichan Support wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Gah.

This is all to complicated. Aren't we way overdue for a one world government anyway?

Yeah. How are we supposed to fend off the incoming hive fleet?

We Need Him To lead us! Where's the Emprah when we need him?!

Emperors Faithful wrote:
For some reason I'm getting the mental image of Zeus reclining on a throne of World Curreny.

That's basically what they did with Ambrosia*.





*No, not that terrible fruit salad.

Fraz, I hope you're not implying I'm anti-semetic.

Tophawtdog4411 wrote:

Melissia wrote:Israel has to do its part, or it can expect more of its people to die.

LOL are you ****** mad!? I mean hell i hate terrorism and all crazy stuff that happens over there. But the kind of stuff the Israel military does violates a lot of the geneva convention protocols. Isreal military has killed TOOOOONS of innocents all in the name of safety and then continues to make outposts that arent even in their territory. I also love how the US millitary gets gak for killing innocents (which is obviously bad) but then Isreal goes completely of the radar. Bad stuff happens in that country for the word Safety, the military can often strap you onto tables and beat the living f*** out of you and get away for it, this actually happens a lot to people that arent jewish. I mean for national security purposes if you need to scout ahead and do so.... sure, go for it. However thats defintely not that case.

Because if you question them you're obviously an anti-semetic, holocaust denying nazi dog. Basically the play the 'poor little us' card. I for one am long sick of it. I'm not a fan of war but I do think that just nuking israel to kingdom come would solve a lot of issues and help us towards world peace. Essentially the US backs them to wage its war on the middle east.

Oof! This should be interesting...

dogma wrote:That depends on the extent to which you view the creation of Israel as a hostile act, and many, many people in the Middle East see it that way; and not without good reason. If nothing else, Israel is a very concrete reminder of the legacy of Imperialism; something that the Middle East is just developed enough to find deeply resentful.

That's something that often gets glossed over on this side of the world. Yeah, the British controlled Palestine before the creation of Israel, and in that sense gave it over as a Jewish homeland, but many people that lived there never saw the British as rightful rulers to begin with; again, with good reason.

There's also the bit about expansionist tendencies beyond the original mandate, but that's a much fuzzier issue.

Translation: The PLO started killing Jews before Israel conquered the Gaza strip and West Bank after being attacked by multiple Arab and Middle Eastern countries.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

dogma wrote:China has proposed a world reserve currency that isn't staked to a nation, that's basically the first step.

Would that work?

Its worked awesomely for Europe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Da Boss wrote:Fraz, I hope you're not implying I'm anti-semetic.

No I'm implying you're anti semantic.

We will not rest until world antisemanticism ends, or I get tired and run out of coffee!

Tophawtdog4411 wrote:

Melissia wrote:Israel has to do its part, or it can expect more of its people to die.

[snip]

... you realize that I was talking about the peacemaking process?


IE: "Israel must offer concessions to the peace process in order for it to work, it cannot rest solely on the backs of the Palestinians as they are just one party in this."

Phototoxin wrote:
Because if you question them you're obviously an anti-semetic, holocaust denying nazi dog. Basically the play the 'poor little us' card. I for one am long sick of it. I'm not a fan of war but I do think that just nuking israel to kingdom come would solve a lot of issues and help us towards world peace. Essentially the US backs them to wage its war on the middle east.

Not a Nazi - Wants Israel Nuked
Doesn't like War - Wants Israel Nuked.
Wants World Peace - Wants Israel Nuked.



I'm all for nukes, your just nuking the wrong things. Nuke the Moon! That cheese based, tidal dominator has mocked us for too long.

Frazzled wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

dogma wrote:China has proposed a world reserve currency that isn't staked to a nation, that's basically the first step.

Would that work?

Its worked awesomely for Europe.

That isn't the case Frazzie, the Euro was tied between the contributing countries in Europe Euro Zone. So when ireland and greece couldnt get their economies straight Germany sneezed and they all fell down. Tying your economy to Greece and relying on the Greek government not to overspend or be corrupt is not exactly smart. The Euro backers thought that Germany, Benelux and France could ofset that, but the result was something similar to leaving your credit card with an overspending wife, you have to be more than merely rich to survive doing that over time.

Orlanth wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

dogma wrote:China has proposed a world reserve currency that isn't staked to a nation, that's basically the first step.

Would that work?

Its worked awesomely for Europe.

That isn't the case Frazzie, the Euro was tied between the contributing countries in Europe Euro Zone. So when ireland and greece couldnt get their economies straight Germany sneezed and they all fell down. Tying your economy to Greece and relying on the Greek government not to overspend or be corrupt is not exactly smart. The Euro backers thought that Germany, Benelux and France could ofset that, but the result was something similar to leaving your credit card with an overspending wife, you have to be more than merely rich to survive doing that over time.

How would that be better than trying the same for the world when you have such sterling countries as Zimbabwe floating around?

Da Boss wrote:Sebster: Oh, I didn't think that, it's just, you wouldn't get this manic support of Israel that borders on the irrational. We accept that Israel does some pretty nasty things and that it is being needlessly cruel to an entire population. Of course the people vote for terrorists in that situation- they see them as freedom fighters, the only ones "doing something" about their awful situation. It just suprises me how little empathy is in this conversation.

I feel empathy for ordinary Israelis too. I dated an Israeli girl for a while and she certainly did her best to give me an insight into their point of view, but I still think it's a batgak crazy point of view!

Talking of absolutes in a situation like this...I mean, I know for a fact that the lads in this thread who are rabidly pro Israel (and have shown that stance time and again) are much more nuanced and capable of seeing the greys when it comes to domestic politics or whatever. What is it about Israel that provokes this loyalty?

This is the thing. I feel a great deal of sympthy for the citizens of Israel. I feel just as much sympathy for the citizens of Palestine. The Israelis don't deserve to lose hundreds of their citizens to rocket and bomb attacks, just as the Palestinians don't deserve to lose thousands of their's to Israeli military actions, or to be kept in poverty and under constant blockade.

Thinking along those lines, and simply wanting the issue resolved makes you anti-semitic, apparently. Whereas picking a side and cheering for it regardless of the human cost makes you a noble defender of the rights of minorities. Or something.


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Monster Rain wrote:

Maybe I missed something. Did all this nastiness from Israel start before or after the attempted invasions, rockets and suicide bombings?

I'm genuinely curious.

The nastiness is product of occupying someone else's country. It's inevitable. It doesn't matter how noble your aims are, every occupation turns nasty sooner or later.

Thing is, when the Israelis first occupied Palestine everyone thought it would become part of Israel in time. Most refugees would leave and repatriate in Arab nations, and the rest would become part of a greater Israel. And it wasn't an unreasonable assumption, it had happened plenty of times before.

Except it didn't happen. Palestine had, at some point along the way, and likely due in large part to this latest occupation, formed it's own identity. People really saw themselves as Palestinian. The folk that fled Palestine didn't just repatriate, they stayed in the camps and waited until they could return to their homeland, and they're still waiting.

So the Israeli situation was suddenly very different, and it's dragged out into an occupation many decades old. So it got nasty, on both sides.

Now there's an element of Israel that really believes in zionist expansion and who are actively hostile to the Palestinians. The rest, like people everywhere, just want the whole thing to go away so they can back to watching tv and trying to get a better job to buy a nicer car. But that minority, unfortunately, has a pretty strong say in Israeli politics, and while the rest of Israel is kind of embarressed about that fanatical element, they aren't always hostile to them (mostly in the wake of some Palestinian group blowing something up).

Then you add in the strong financial interests of Israeli business groups (everyday hundreds of thousands of Palestinians commute into Israel to work for near slave wages, a rate of pay they'd never accept is Palestine was allowed its own economy). The result is a peace process that enough powerful people simply don't want.

So the occupation grinds on. And it keeps getting nastier, as all occupations do.

To be perfectly frank, I wonder why the perceived injustices of the Israeli's against the Palestinians garners so much negative left wing attention, when there are plenty of dictators and whatnot around the world who place various other peoples in far worse straits, and conduct genocide. Regardless of what Israel does, there is far worse going on, yet I've yet to see a 'boycott of academics from the University of Zimbabwe' or other such ridiculous notions.

In the same way some people come out as rabidly pro-Israel, there are many others in the left wing press who come out as rabidly anti-israel who proclaim themselves as defending human rights, yet don't seem half as enthusiastic on many other issues.

Frazzled wrote:
Translation: The PLO started killing Jews before Israel conquered the Gaza strip and West Bank after being attacked by multiple Arab and Middle Eastern countries.

That doesn't have anything at all to do with what I said, you aren't even referencing the same time period.

And yes, the PLO predates Israeli control of Gaza and the West Bank. Palestine isn't just Gaza and the West Bank.

Additionally, if you're really serious about moderating this forum like the rest of the board, maybe you should adhere more closely to the rules. It isn't very polite to willfully misrepresent statements made by someone else.

Ketara wrote:To be perfectly frank, I wonder why the perceived injustices of the Israeli's against the Palestinians

"percieved"? The feth? Plain and simple, there can be absolutely no pretending that the Israeli's have done some very messed up things in Palestine. We can talk about the hows and wherefores of what's been done, but pretending that a lot of Palestinians haven't been killed without having done anything wrong is just plain silly.

Regardless of what Israel does, there is far worse going on, yet I've yet to see a 'boycott of academics from the University of Zimbabwe' or other such ridiculous notions.

I don't believe Israel should be cast into the absolute fringes of the diplomatic community, like we've done with Zimbabwe. I do believe that we should not give military aid to Israel until they join peace talks in earnest. Whether or not we should refuse any sale of military arms to Israel... well, you're the one that compared them to Zimbabwe.

In the same way some people come out as rabidly pro-Israel, there are many others in the left wing press who come out as rabidly anti-israel who proclaim themselves as defending human rights, yet don't seem half as enthusiastic on many other issues.

Yeah, there's rabid folk. But so what? Ignore them, and talk with the people who aren't rabid and who are in this very thread.

Frazzled wrote:

Orlanth wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

dogma wrote:China has proposed a world reserve currency that isn't staked to a nation, that's basically the first step.

Would that work?

Its worked awesomely for Europe.

That isn't the case Frazzie, the Euro was tied between the contributing countries in Europe Euro Zone. So when ireland and greece couldnt get their economies straight Germany sneezed and they all fell down. Tying your economy to Greece and relying on the Greek government not to overspend or be corrupt is not exactly smart. The Euro backers thought that Germany, Benelux and France could ofset that, but the result was something similar to leaving your credit card with an overspending wife, you have to be more than merely rich to survive doing that over time.

How would that be better than trying the same for the world when you have such sterling countries as Zimbabwe floating around?

Ther idea is to tie the currency against something other than national economies, which id different from tying it into all member economies.
Best meassn to do that is to in validate currency exchanges from the new currency except back into the original currency one exchanged from at the same rate and up to the same ammounts.

So a tourist, or company can change mobile assets in dollars into the new currency, and be guaranteed the same exchange rate for up to the same amount back, once on the strength of the receipt of exchange. Howver one cannot use the new currency to link between two other currencies therefore it cannot be speculated on, therefore its value is independent.

I dont know if that is what the Chinese want to do, but its how I would do it.

Ketara wrote:To be perfectly frank, I wonder why the perceived injustices of the Israeli's against the Palestinians garners so much negative left wing attention, when there are plenty of dictators and whatnot around the world who place various other peoples in far worse straits, and conduct genocide. Regardless of what Israel does, there is far worse going on, yet I've yet to see a 'boycott of academics from the University of Zimbabwe' or other such ridiculous notions.

In the same way some people come out as rabidly pro-Israel, there are many others in the left wing press who come out as rabidly anti-israel who proclaim themselves as defending human rights, yet don't seem half as enthusiastic on many other issues.

It is strange, but to some extent I think its simply a natural consequence of popular interest. There are a lot people, educated and otherwise, that are interested in Israel. There are few that are interested in Darfur.

One other thing to note is that Israel is a developed nation. This is important because it has a huge impact on the amount and quality of information available regarding the conflict. If you want to see what's going on with regard to the conflict, you can just pull up the English homepage of an Israeli newspaper. You can't do the same if you want to learn about Darfur.

"percieved"? The feth? Plain and simple, there can be absolutely no pretending that the Israeli's have done some very messed up things in Palestine. We can talk about the hows and wherefores of what's been done, but pretending that a lot of Palestinians haven't been killed without having done anything wrong is just plain silly.

Certainly. But simultaneously, there have been plenty of Israelis' killed by various ways and means. I just find it very interesting to note how the articles in the newspapers usually seem to consist of large double page spreads about the lack of an economy in Gaza, the cruelty of the Israeli government, etc, and then you'll have a single sentence down the bottom adding , 'However, three people were killed by a missile attack the other day'. There's a certain disparity in the press I tend to find.

I don't believe Israel should be cast into the absolute fringes of the diplomatic community, like we've done with Zimbabwe. I do believe that we should not give military aid to Israel until they join peace talks in earnest. Whether or not we should refuse any sale of military arms to Israel... well, you're the one that compared them to Zimbabwe.

That's a whole other ball court. I was referring to a movement about a year or so back to boycott Israel academically. A movement that seemingly had little basis in anything. The people in charge were shouting about Palestinian rights, however, the people in the Israeli Universities have little more influence upon government policy there than the University of Zimbabwe does upon Robert Mugabe. Boycotting them would have little to no effect. And so I wondered why this particular sanction was called for against Israel, and not Zimbabwe. Arms sales are neither here nor there. I was relating back to my thoughts on how rabidly anti-israel the left wing press here seems to be.

Yeah, there's rabid folk. But so what? Ignore them, and talk with the people who aren't rabid and who are in this very thread.

I beg your pardon? You made a comment about how some people were rabidly pro-Israel, and I was responded with my thoughts on how their opposite numbers could easily be found, and seem to dominate the media over here. You seem to be trying to argue with me over something here.

Ketara wrote:Certainly. But simultaneously, there have been plenty of Israelis' killed by various ways and means. I just find it very interesting to note how the articles in the newspapers usually seem to consist of large double page spreads about the lack of an economy in Gaza, the cruelty of the Israeli government, etc, and then you'll have a single sentence down the bottom adding , 'However, three people were killed by a missile attack the other day'. There's a certain disparity in the press I tend to find.

It is the opposite in the US. The majority of news will be about if someone was killed in Israel, a missile here, a suicide bomber there. We do get more of the Palestinian side these days but it is generally Israeli-heavy.

Ketara wrote:Certainly. But simultaneously, there have been plenty of Israelis' killed by various ways and means. I just find it very interesting to note how the articles in the newspapers usually seem to consist of large double page spreads about the lack of an economy in Gaza, the cruelty of the Israeli government, etc, and then you'll have a single sentence down the bottom adding , 'However, three people were killed by a missile attack the other day'. There's a certain disparity in the press I tend to find.

There is a disparity, but it certainly doesn't go the way you're suggesting. Because most folk draw their knowledge from news reports, they see coverage of the rocket attacks and the like and assume that most of the deaths are Israelis. Most folk I've talked to on the subject, even those who don't agree with what Israel has done, have assumed most deaths have been Israelis, when the truth is the overwhelming number of casualties have been Palestinian, like 4 Palestinians for every Israeli.

I just stumbled upon this link while checking that my ratio was correct, http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/net-report.html, it's actually a study of US coverage of the war, comparing the ratio of deaths shown in the media against the actual deaths. It showed a ratio of 3 or 4 Israeli deaths for every Palestian, when in reality the ratio is the exact opposite.

That's a whole other ball court. I was referring to a movement about a year or so back to boycott Israel academically. A movement that seemingly had little basis in anything. The people in charge were shouting about Palestinian rights, however, the people in the Israeli Universities have little more influence upon government policy there than the University of Zimbabwe does upon Robert Mugabe. Boycotting them would have little to no effect. And so I wondered why this particular sanction was called for against Israel, and not Zimbabwe. Arms sales are neither here nor there. I was relating back to my thoughts on how rabidly anti-israel the left wing press here seems to be.

Sure, and you've got a fair point that the debate over Israel seems to occupy a whole lot of media time compared to other situations. I don't believe that's because there's a particularly anti-Israeli agenda (in fact Israel is continuously defended, despite so many of their actions being entirely indefensible). I think that's a large part of it, really, there is still a debate over the morality of Israel's occupation, whereas Zimbabwe is pretty much 'Mugabe is bad, here's more of Mugabe being bad' and then everyone says 'yep'. It's the debate that encourages more coverage.

I beg your pardon? You made a comment about how some people were rabidly pro-Israel, and I was responded with my thoughts on how their opposite numbers could easily be found, and seem to dominate the media over here. You seem to be trying to argue with me over something here.

Oh, sorry, I didn't realise your comment on rabid anti-Israeli folk was in that context. It's a fair point, and I'm sorry I misread you, and sorry I was that aggressive, I should have given you more benefit of the doubt.

Ketara wrote:To be perfectly frank, I wonder why the perceived injustices of the Israeli's against the Palestinians garners so much negative left wing attention, when there are plenty of dictators and whatnot around the world who place various other peoples in far worse straits, and conduct genocide. Regardless of what Israel does, there is far worse going on, yet I've yet to see a 'boycott of academics from the University of Zimbabwe' or other such ridiculous notions.

In the same way some people come out as rabidly pro-Israel, there are many others in the left wing press who come out as rabidly anti-israel who proclaim themselves as defending human rights, yet don't seem half as enthusiastic on many other issues.

What can I say? Anti-semanticism is worldwide.

Oh God, now it thinks it's funny.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Oh God, now it thinks it's funny.

It puts the lotion in the basket or else it gets the hose again!