Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was not alone during this testing. I had a partner, he played my army sometimes and he played IG sometimes. The critics here state that since neither of us was a full time IG player that the experiment has not credibility.

No, we just think that this is a potentially very bad way to determine how to play against IG. It won't be the best, because as you said, this wil be a tournament, anyone playing will not be someone with some experience playing IG, they will know how to handle IG, and play them in different ways.

I can see possibilities with deciding to take plasma Veterans in the Vendettas instead of just in the Chimeras. The Vendettas would then use their mobility to drop in behind you, and pour plasma into your back. NOt to mention, you're going with a very standard leafblower list. A type of list that has been out for a while. I may not be a hardcore tourney player, but I can guess that most IG players have realized that they may have ridden this pony as far as it can go, and they should start changing things up.

Well to be fair, most of the "leaf blower" lists I have run across have had a fairly strong anti deepstrike component by using the double mystic retinue, and putting in a punisher or medusa squadron so that they could get max shots against any deepstriking opponents.

I am hoping to find a few more variants to run my simulations against, such as this ones above that I mentioned.

That was a terrible simulation...

littleboyblues wrote:That was a terrible simulation...

Explain. What would you have done different?

Wait what do you mean that you have never seen an IG player actually play his vets aggressively. Considering they are close-range shooting they would be as close as possible.

Don't try to outshoot an IG list designed for shooting. It just won't work. You will be eaten if you try to shoot him down. You would have to charge him. Razorspam wolves are shooty but leafblower IG are shootier.

First all give all the manticores a 3+ cover save and being at 48 inches the whole game makes no sense as all the squads have wepons they paid for that are short to mid range. Also good leafblowers don't just spam manticores. It should be 3 Hydras, 1 meduas (or 2 on points) 1 manticore all the vets and the vendettas will start on the board with 4+ cover saves and most likely be getting side shots turn 2 and possibly rear shots shortly after and maybe even dropping the vets and rapid firing your longfangs or razorbacks. Why did you give all the space wolves a 5+ cover save? Math hammer can get you places... Not that it can win you anything but knowing odds and knowing how to stack/maximize odds in your favor is just good playing. Add 9x tl lascannons and add in 6 multilasers and turn 2 and on start adding all the special weapons from the vets and your simulation would be more accurate but still is just math at the end of the day. What terrain? How is it positioned? What is deployment? A shoot out will give you a very limited view of what to expect but until you play against it you won't really learn anything. I was at a GT playing H2H wolves and won 4 games pretty handedly and got destroyed on the top table by an opponent whom was a good player playing a leaf blower. He got first turn and it was diagonal deployment. I was tabled turn 2... I had a crap ton more units and vehicles than your razor spam list would have. I'm not a shabby player by any means either. If I had gotten to go first I would have drove up 12 inches and smocked. He would have destroyed half as much. so about 75% of my vehicles because he would be adding the meltas and plasmas. (Also half my units got pinned as well.) His turn 2 I would have been tabled because he would have gotten 2 rapid fire plasma off at my squads. Game was about 30 min of the 2.5 hour match. I stand by my previous statement... Your simulation is terrible.

littleboyblues wrote:First all give all the manticores a 3+ cover save and being at 48 inches the whole game makes no sense as all the squads have wepons they paid for that are short to mid range. Also good leafblowers don't just spam manticores. It should be 3 Hydras, 1 meduas (or 2 on points) 1 manticore all the vets and the vendettas will start on the board with 4+ cover saves and most likely be getting side shots turn 2 and possibly rear shots shortly after and maybe even dropping the vets and rapid firing your longfangs or razorbacks. Why did you give all the space wolves a 5+ cover save? Math hammer can get you places... Not that it can win you anything but knowing odds and knowing how to stack/maximize odds in your favor is just good playing. Add 9x tl lascannons and add in 6 multilasers and turn 2 and on start adding all the special weapons from the vets and your simulation would be more accurate but still is just math at the end of the day. What terrain? How is it positioned? What is deployment? A shoot out will give you a very limited view of what to expect but until you play against it you won't really learn anything. I was at a GT playing H2H wolves and won 4 games pretty handedly and got destroyed on the top table by an opponent whom was a good player playing a leaf blower. He got first turn and it was diagonal deployment. I was tabled turn 2... I had a crap ton more units and vehicles than your razor spam list would have. I'm not a shabby player by any means either. If I had gotten to go first I would have drove up 12 inches and smocked. He would have destroyed half as much. so about 75% of my vehicles because he would be adding the meltas and plasmas. (Also half my units got pinned as well.) His turn 2 I would have been tabled because he would have gotten 2 rapid fire plasma off at my squads. Game was about 30 min of the 2.5 hour match. I stand by my previous statement... Your simulation is terrible.

I won't try and insult you as you did me. What I will ask you to do is actually read my simulations as I incorporated almost everything that you mentioned in one or more simulations.

oops wrong post

my Leaf Blower is as follows

CCS
4x plasma
Chimera

Troop:
Vets 10 melta chimera
vets 10 melta chimera
vets 10 melta chimera
vets 10 plasma chimera
vets 10 plasma chimera
PCS; HF F x 3 Chimera w/ HF/HF
Infantry of 20 with 2 las

Fast
3 vendetta

Heavy
1 manticore
1 execution w/ plasma cannon sponsons
(either a manticore or Medusa x 2)

That is a rough run down of what I use.


Strategy. I try to get first turn if I dont i set up with as much cover as I can get for vehicles. If I go first I set up and get ready to move up.

I scout move all vendetta or have them in reserve.
I rush 2 plasma squads and 1 melta squad up and pop smoke for them. The other squads move up but only 6 so I can fire ML.
Manticore targets vehicles or low armored infantry if facing large blocks. Medusa will take out Land raiders and other high armor. Vendetta's will aim for Priority MC, then long range enemy tanks. Executioner will shoot at your elite armored troops (terminators and assault/shooty Sm).
Inf Platoon priority MC then closest big threat such as dreadnought for them
PCS moves up 12 and smoke
CCS will move up and mark concieled if possible next to the INF squad for orders and will have plasma for any tough infantry that approach my lines.

Its prioritizing targets and having your models take on the rolls that they do best. This is the key thing that you are missing in your simulation. If I follow the above procedures on my turn 1 I will cripple your army to a point of no recovery. If I go first and roll average I will guarantee a victory against all but Fatecrusher! That is not saying the list is unbeatable. Just saying that I know the list well enough to play it almost to that goal.