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Sothas wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:SOthas - because it states "including", which MEANS "there are other weapons that the following that are included in this rule. Examples of weapons are:"

We just have no way kf knowing what those weapons are...

No it doesn't. If there were more weapons it would say, "including, but not limited to..." Including in this context does not mean there are more. In this context it means literally "these are your weapons." Also, as I stated, on pg 58 it lists Plasma Weapons in a side box, gives it a definition, and then lists only these three weapons. It also lists flamers on pg 56 and meltas on pg 57, all of which are either listed in, or FAQed into the Avatar's immunity.

So no, there's no debate on what is or is not a plasma weapon when it is clearly defined in the book twice. If it gets FAQed then fine, but this is a clearly stated rule no matter how slowed it may be.

So by your reasoning the Avatar isn't immune to Incinerators? It's not a flame weapon and it's not listed in either his rules or the FAQ.

And regarding your definition of "including", last time I looked it means that the examples given after is part of something, not the entire something. The "but not limited to" is usually just added to avoind this kind of confusion.

Sothas - actually "including" means EXACTLY what I said it does.

So no, it tells you that there are weapons that fit the requirement, including the 3 listed. Context in this case cannot mean "this is the entire list" - it just cant.

Thread explodes in 3...2...1...
By the common reasoning here concerning "including" the Deff Rolla is definitely not a weapon, right?

I think right now, based on the very strictest of RAW, only GK plasma are affected. "including" does not mean anything, it is just giving examples. The only codex that defines "plasma weapons" is the GK one, and until that is changed, they are the only ones affected.


This really will not matter in any game that you play however.


If you are in a tournament, there will probably be a TO ruling that decided which weapons are "plasma" and which ones are not.

If you are playing in a friendly game, you will take a second with your opponent and discuss which weapons are "plasma" as there is a pretty murky RAI area here.


This thread is not going to explode, but rather just die. The question has been answered, though the answer is not popular. GW still needs to FAQ this and about a thousand other things from this Codex as well.

Jidmah wrote:Thread explodes in 3...2...1...
By the common reasoning here concerning "including" the Deff Rolla is definitely not a weapon, right?

Deffrollas arn't a weapon.

they are a vehicle upgrade that alters it's Tank Shock and Ram effects and can't be removed by any means.