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Funnily enough, I quite like the NDK.
Rules, Fluff, and Model.

Coteaz= THE admech counts as army of the century with dreadknights as well. what they really are Knight titans.

no seriously, grey knights stole the knight titan and gave it a different paint job.


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Fafnir wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Dreadknight gets my vote though, thing is just awesome over-the-topness that fits 40K. I could totally see a group of Grey Knights being pushed back by endless hordes, only to watch as a massive Dreadknight just comes busting out with scripture written all over it laying down the holy fury.

I take it you kind of missed the entire point of the old GK fluff.

They were the lone warriors in a struggle against the forces of chaos. It was never giant robots or advanced weaponry that made the Grey Knights so cool, it was the single Justicar who made his desperate stand against a Geater Daemon and won that made them so epic.

hata's hate! No seriously the dreadknight was NOT put in for the grey knights. we all know the real reason GW put the DreadKNIGHT in the book they didn't even disguise it real well.


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daedalus wrote:I love psycannons. I don't want to, but I can't help it. They're like some hip new drug that makes you smart, attractive, long lived, oh, and your attacks rend.

I love gatling guns, That's why the assault cannon is my favorite weapons ever in the game, +1str, YES PLEASE!

And I was ignored... :(

I actually kind of like Draigo, only because I imagine him getting lost in the warp went something like this;

*Draigo and some battle-brotehrs take cover from M'kar, who is standing in front of a warp rift being all greater-daemony.*
Brother Joshua: Okay, Brothers, this Daemon has given us a lot of trouble in the past, does anyone need their weapons blessed or should we just attack?
Brother Kane: I think Kaldor needs something sanctifying.
Brother Joshua: Oh, he needs that Daemonhammer, isn't he an interceptor?
Brother Kane: No, but that'll help him fight better, he'll be stronger.
Brother Joshua: Emperor above...Okay, what we'll do is, I'll flank him and shoot him. Kane, you charge from his left flank. Draigo, you stay here and blast all his minions down with your storm bolter. I'll use some psychic powers to kill some of the lesser Daemons so we won't have to fight them all at once. I think it's a pretty good plan, Brother Kane what do you think, can you give me an estimate?
Brother Kane: Yes brother, a moment...I feel that we have a 32.33, repeating of course, percentage chance of survival.
Brotehr Joshua: Well, it's a lot better than we usually have in this situation, er...
Draigo: ALRIGHT BROTHERS, LET'S DO THIS! KALLLDORRR, DRAIGOOOOO!!!!
*Draigo breaks cover and tackles a stunned M'kar through the rift. Awkward silence.*
Brother Joshua: Oh Emperor he just ran in.
Brother Kane: Stick to the plan!
*As the two Grey Knights are overwhelmed by vengeful daemons, Kane mangages to turn to the warp rift.*
Brother Kane: Draigo, you are stupid as hell.
Draigo: At least I have faith.

^ Epic.

I Imagine it going a bit differently

Brother joshua: Wow that's one big daemon prince, okay so whats the plan?
Brother kane: Here's an idea, we get Kaldor give him this daemon hammer, and an interceptor jump pack right?
Brother Joshua: Okay and?
Brother Kaldor: um...?
Brother kane: we get this daemon hammer sanctified and we psycannon his ass from way up on top of that ridge over there. That'll piss him off long enough to distract him.
Brother Josua: okay and where does kaldor come in?
Brother Kaldor: Um.... I don't thnk I ....
Brother Kane: meanwhile kaldor teleports infront of him and the warpgate and daemon hammers him in the nuts, hopefully that'll knock him back into the warp. It's dangerous and will probably suck you in too but "for the emperor right?"
Brother Joshua: Yeah lets do this!
Brother Kaldor: um guys....
Brother Kane: okay heres the daemonhammer kaldor, Go get em! *hits the teleport switch*

For all of you still arguing about Mortarion and Draigo, this is just in case, I'll quote from the book itself and then you will all know what ACTUALLY happened. Now, I have C: GK in my very hands, and I quote "He became Supreme Grand Master in the early days of 901.M41, following the slaughter of the previous Chapter Lord at the hands of the Daemon Primarch Mortarion, and his first act was to carve his forebear's name upon Mortarion's rotting heart - an insult that the Daemon has never forgotten." There, rejoice for you all now know.
On C: GK's itself I agree with everyone who enjoys the fluff, it may be a bit OTT but they're the GK's, the chamber militant of the Inquisition, they were made by the Emperor's personal gene-seed, they were considered so special that Malcador the Sigilite actually harboured his powers to conceal their home world and move it into Saturn's orbit after the HH. They are space marines to space marines as the space marines are to common folk of the IoM.
And the Nemesis Dreadknight is just awesome

crimsonfist832 wrote:For all of you still arguing about Mortarion and Draigo, this is just in case, I'll quote from the book itself and then you will all know what ACTUALLY happened. Now, I have C: GK in my very hands, and I quote "He became Supreme Grand Master in the early days of 901.M41, following the slaughter of the previous Chapter Lord at the hands of the Daemon Primarch Mortarion, and his first act was to carve his forebear's name upon Mortarion's rotting heart - an insult that the Daemon has never forgotten." There, rejoice for you all now know.

Grey Knights Codex, page 15 wrote:
Alone and unaided, Draigo smashes his way through Mortarion's bodygaurd, strikes the Primarch to the ground and carves Geronitan's name on the Daemon's vile heart.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:He didn't "fight through an army" by himself, he was already there fighting when the old SGM died. Considering that not even Tzeentch is omniscient I wouldn't find it too unbelievable that a Grand Master could get the jump on a Daemon Primarch and his bodyguard in the middle of the battle. Having just killed the SGM and (presumably) his bodyguard, Mortarion and his Death Guard would be nowhere near their full strength. You don't have to be mortally wounded to be at a disadvantage in a battle you know. And I meant "get the jump" as in he jumps the Death Guard, kills them while he's got the element of surprise and then fights the weakened Mortarion.

Why try to rationalize it? That's not what the story says. From the way it's written the obvious implication is that Draigo is clearly more powerful than the daemon primarchs. I mean he basically single-handedly beats up the primarch's strongest buddies, knocks the primarch to the ground, steals his lunch money and sends him running home to cry to momma.

Then he goes and finds the Chaos gods where they live, pulls up their flowers, breaks all their windows, sets their houses on fire, and lets his dog poop in their lawns. They call the daemon police but then Draigo just beats them up and steals their guns. And while the gods are able to repair the damage, they are evidently powerless to stop him even in their own realm. That's how strong Draigo is. He goes into the Realm of Chaos and makes the Chaos gods his bitches. I mean how awesome is that, right? Snooch.

Remember that part in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade where Indiana Jones has to go to Berlin to retrieve his father's diary and comes face-to-face with Hitler? Well what if instead of letting Hitler autograph the diary he PUNCHES HIM IN THE FACE INSTEAD. Then when all the SS (not to mention the entire crowd of onlookers) turn on him he beats them all up too. Then he goes on to defeat the entire German army with his whip. Then he would be OMGKALDORAWESOMESAUCEDRAIGO!!! I wonder why Steven Spielberg didn't make it like that instead? Surely the movie-going audience would have enjoyed that film a lot more. Maybe he didn't have the special effects to pull it off back then? Yeah, that's probably it.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:He didn't "fight through an army" by himself, he was already there fighting when the old SGM died. Considering that not even Tzeentch is omniscient I wouldn't find it too unbelievable that a Grand Master could get the jump on a Daemon Primarch and his bodyguard in the middle of the battle. Having just killed the SGM and (presumably) his bodyguard, Mortarion and his Death Guard would be nowhere near their full strength. You don't have to be mortally wounded to be at a disadvantage in a battle you know. And I meant "get the jump" as in he jumps the Death Guard, kills them while he's got the element of surprise and then fights the weakened Mortarion.

Why try to rationalize it?

...because the sensible thing to do? People rage against the fluff and I point out things that could've happened that we don't know of that would mean it isn't so bad. That's ultimately my point. We don't know. Raging against fluff where we do not have the full picture isn't gonna lead to anywhere good.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Then he goes and finds the Chaos gods where they live, pulls up their flowers, breaks all their windows, sets their houses on fire, and lets his dog poop in their lawns. They call the daemon police but then Draigo just beats them up and steals their guns. And while the gods are able to repair the damage, they are evidently powerless to stop him even in their own realm. That's how strong Draigo is. He goes into the Realm of Chaos and makes the Chaos gods his bitches. I mean how awesome is that, right? Snooch.

"Powerless to stop him". Now who's adding stuff? Who's to say that they don't want him wandering the warp? For all we know they could be manipulating him as a weapon against each other. Besides, the entire point of that part of his fluff, which you seem to have missed, is the same as the core of the Grey Knight fluff: Nothing of what he/they do matters in the long run! Daemons are only banished, the stuff Draigo destroys fixes itself. Stubbornly fighting on while realizing just how futile your efforts are is at the core of the Grey Knights' fluff, and Ward did a good job (HERESY!) portraying that.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:He didn't "fight through an army" by himself, he was already there fighting when the old SGM died. Considering that not even Tzeentch is omniscient I wouldn't find it too unbelievable that a Grand Master could get the jump on a Daemon Primarch and his bodyguard in the middle of the battle. Having just killed the SGM and (presumably) his bodyguard, Mortarion and his Death Guard would be nowhere near their full strength. You don't have to be mortally wounded to be at a disadvantage in a battle you know. And I meant "get the jump" as in he jumps the Death Guard, kills them while he's got the element of surprise and then fights the weakened Mortarion.

Why try to rationalize it?

...because the sensible thing to do? People rage against the fluff and I point out things that could've happened that we don't know of that would mean it isn't so bad. That's ultimately my point. We don't know. Raging against fluff where we do not have the full picture isn't gonna lead to anywhere good.

Coulda woulda shoulda. The story says what it says. Draigo beats up Mortarion's bodyguard, knocks Mortarion to the ground, carves the primarch's heart up and Mortarion only manages to escape. And Draigo does this single-handedly. Now we can either sit around and try to think of a reason, any reason, why the story doesn't actually imply what it obviously seems to imply or we can, you know, take it to mean what it says and draw the obvious conclusion - Draigo > daemon primarch. I mean, c'mon. He doesn't just defeat a daemon primarch. He takes on Mortarion AND his bodyguard SINGLE-HANDEDLY and makes the primarch his bitch.

The way it's described, it sounds a lot like this:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Then he goes and finds the Chaos gods where they live, pulls up their flowers, breaks all their windows, sets their houses on fire, and lets his dog poop in their lawns. They call the daemon police but then Draigo just beats them up and steals their guns. And while the gods are able to repair the damage, they are evidently powerless to stop him even in their own realm. That's how strong Draigo is. He goes into the Realm of Chaos and makes the Chaos gods his bitches. I mean how awesome is that, right? Snooch.

"Powerless to stop him". Now who's adding stuff? Who's to say that they don't want him wandering the warp?

Yeah, maybe they want him to burn down their gardens and destroy their cities. That's why they send their most powerful minions against him to get curbstomped. "Yessss... I could destroy Draigo on a whim, but having him destroy my city and bury one of my most powerful greater daemons in the rubble is all a part of my master plan to demonstrate the omnipotence of my diabolical rebuilding powers! Bwaaahahahaha!!" Seems reasonable.

I think they should just take it all the way with Draigo. I mean why stop here? In the next version of the GK Codex they should make a NEMESIS DRAIGOKNIGHT model. The new fluff would go something like this:

After dragging Khorne kicking and screaming from his throne by the ear, Draigo melts down the brass from the Skull Throne to forge the most powerful Nemesis Dreadknight ever constructed and a Nemesis Greatsword of such potency that it can completely obliterate the very essence of the daemonic, thus permanently ending the foe once and for all. Thus armed, Draigo hunts down M'kar and slays the foul creature for the last time, thus lifting the daemon's curse. Draigo bursts forth from the Warp onto the planet of Medrengard within the Eye of Terror, kills the daemon primarch Perturabo, burns the fortress world to cinders, climbs the Crooked Spire and commandeers the Iron Warriors fleet. Draigo then emerges victorious through the Cadian Gate at the head of his armada, broadcasting Stan Bush's "The Touch" on all astropathic frequencies, thus causing all female astropaths in the segmentum to spontaneously experience simultaneous warpgasm.

Yeah, that should work.

Henchmn are where its at, the standard trooper henchman can take a storm bolter AND a melta, now stick a jokaero in, and if you roll a 2 you have a 36 inch storm bolter with a 24 inch melta

i really like the new gk codex. i think it will probably end up as a stepping stone to the next few codex revisions

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
"Powerless to stop him". Now who's adding stuff? Who's to say that they don't want him wandering the warp?
Yeah, maybe they want him to burn down their gardens and destroy their cities. That's why they send their most powerful minions against him to get curbstomped. "Yessss... I could destroy Draigo on a whim, but having him destroy my city and bury one of my most powerful greater daemons in the rubble is all a part of my master plan to demonstrate the omnipotence of my diabolical rebuilding powers! Bwaaahahahaha!!" Seems reasonable.

Epic fail on your reading there mate. Highlighted the important part:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
"Powerless to stop him". Now who's adding stuff? Who's to say that they don't want him wandering the warp? For all we know they could be manipulating him as a weapon against each other. Besides, the entire point of that part of his fluff, which you seem to have missed, is the same as the core of the Grey Knight fluff: Nothing of what he/they do matters in the long run! Daemons are only banished, the stuff Draigo destroys fixes itself. Stubbornly fighting on while realizing just how futile your efforts are is at the core of the Grey Knights' fluff, and Ward did a good job (HERESY!) portraying that.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:After dragging Khorne kicking and screaming from his throne by the ear, Draigo melts down the brass from the Skull Throne to forge the most powerful Nemesis Dreadknight ever constructed and a Nemesis Greatsword of such potency that it can completely obliterate the very essence of the daemonic, thus permanently ending the foe once and for all. Thus armed, Draigo hunts down M'kar and slays the foul creature for the last time, thus lifting the daemon's curse. Draigo bursts forth from the Warp onto the planet of Medrengard within the Eye of Terror, kills the daemon primarch Perturabo, burns the fortress world to cinders, climbs the Crooked Spire and commandeers the Iron Warriors fleet. Draigo then emerges victorious through the Cadian Gate at the head of his armada, broadcasting Stan Bush's "The Touch" on all astropathic frequencies, thus causing all female astropaths in the segmentum to spontaneously experience simultaneous warpgasm.

Ah! Doobie! Where have you been???

Too long you have been silent on this turd of a Codex.

So...

...when does this one come out?

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Remember that part in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade where Indiana Jones has to go to Berlin to retrieve his father's diary and comes face-to-face with Hitler? Well what if instead of letting Hitler autograph the diary he PUNCHES HIM IN THE FACE INSTEAD. Then when all the SS (not to mention the entire crowd of onlookers) turn on him he beats them all up too. Then he goes on to defeat the entire German army with his whip. Then he would be OMGKALDORAWESOMESAUCEDRAIGO!!! I wonder why Steven Spielberg didn't make it like that instead? Surely the movie-going audience would have enjoyed that film a lot more. Maybe he didn't have the special effects to pull it off back then? Yeah, that's probably it.

I think the codex is pretty good. If you want good fluff buy a novel and read it. Do I wish the Fluff in it wasn't written for 8 year olds to salivate over yes I do. But that seems to be the direction GW is taken. They want to aim the game at younger kids.It is a game after all and while I am serious in collecting it we should keep it in perspective. I do think the range of Grey Knights looked better in metal. They look a little to like normal marines with a bit of flash now. At least the old models had a very distinctive profile. There is a couple of things I don't like about the new grey knights. One thing I thought it would be cheaper to buy grey knights in plastic then it was in metal. That isn't the case the box's of 5 knights cost about the same as the old metal models and the metal ones looked better. I have a henchmen army I am building and buying all the metal models anyways is a bit annoying. The Elites are all metal.

ah HBMC where have you been! For far too long this thread has been free of your trolling!

No, wait, thats wrong.

Srsly, there's fluff in this book?

I saw an army list, some colour pages and about 50-odd pages with random drivel on it. I stopped reading SM fluff in 2nd ed. If I want that, I can download BL novels.

It meant I could continue to play with an army I've had for 10 years - and not be like the kids in my club that chop and change armies every three months.

In comparison to the previous Daemonhunters Codex, things that are great:

1. Sub-types of Nemesis Force Weapons

Having multiple options for the GKs makes it fun to choose what you want. Now if only the Nemesis Force Swords gave the power armour GKs a 6+ invulnerable save...

2. Everything is a psyker

As it should be. I like the way brotherhood of psykers is handled, but I also really enjoy the psychic vehicles. We even have an equivalent of the Furioso Librarian. Remember that a Nemesis Doomfist is a force weapon and that a psychic pilot can cast a psychic power per turn...

3. A transport. We're saved!

Thank you for Rhinos and Razorbacks. Now if we had Drop Pods and if terminators could take Land Raiders as dedicated transports...

Things that are poor:

1. Where did my storm shields go?

I would typically field a unit of GK termies, with 2 that swapped out their gear for TH and SS. I admit that a Nemesis Force Sword with a SS would be a combination that is just sick, but really...

2. Death of fluff

Grey Knights fighting with an Inquisitor that uses a Daemon weapon? Alongside Daemonhosts? Are you kidding me? They would first burn the Inquisitor, slash through those daemons, and then turn their attention to the enemy...

3. Loss of Inquisitors from the Elite Slot. Gaining Ordo Hereticus and Ordo Xenos Inquisitors.

Grey Knights fight daemons and chaos. Not rogue psykers (see: Sisters of Battle) and not xenos (see: Deathwatch). And what is up with the wargear games with the Ordo Malleus Inquisitor not having access to rad or psychotrope grenades (Ordo Xenos, GK Grand Master, GK Brother-Captain, and Techmarine)

4. Loss of 'true-grit' WS5, Fearless from the basic stat line.

It's just whining. Though they should all be Fearless. Only Fearless ones are Purifiers. Really? Reading the fluff, you'd think Paladins should also be fearless. Oh well...

Anpu42 wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Remember that part in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade where Indiana Jones has to go to Berlin to retrieve his father's diary and comes face-to-face with Hitler? Well what if instead of letting Hitler autograph the diary he PUNCHES HIM IN THE FACE INSTEAD. Then when all the SS (not to mention the entire crowd of onlookers) turn on him he beats them all up too. Then he goes on to defeat the entire German army with his whip. Then he would be OMGKALDORAWESOMESAUCEDRAIGO!!! I wonder why Steven Spielberg didn't make it like that instead? Surely the movie-going audience would have enjoyed that film a lot more. Maybe he didn't have the special effects to pull it off back then? Yeah, that's probably it.

Crystal skulls....... George lucas's matt ward phase.

He didn't "fight through an army" by himself, he was already there fighting when the old SGM died. Considering that not even Tzeentch is omniscient I wouldn't find it too unbelievable that a Grand Master could get the jump on a Daemon Primarch and his bodyguard in the middle of the battle. Having just killed the SGM and (presumably) his bodyguard, Mortarion and his Death Guard would be nowhere near their full strength. You don't have to be mortally wounded to be at a disadvantage in a battle you know. And I meant "get the jump" as in he jumps the Death Guard, kills them while he's got the element of surprise and then fights the weakened Mortarion.

Why wouldn't they be near full strength? Mortarion and a group of the most powerful Daemons and Chaos Space Marines in Mortarions forces could easily take down a single Grey Knight. True, some bodyguard would be dead and Mortarion would likely not be at absolute height of his power, but why would he be so injured and his retinue so reduced that a single Grey Knight could beat his way through said retinue then physically smash A FETHING DAEMON PRIMARCH to the ground. Firstly, you're over-estimating what a Grey Knight can do, and secondly, you're being irrational and arguing for the sake of arguing and have no fact to back up you're argument, and neither do I. This entire argument is based on several rational interpretations and one irrational interpretation of the same text. I'm actually doubting whether you have the codex.