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Grey Templar wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:There are more Dark Eldar than Craftworld Eldar, DE numbers are unknown but growing, sort of

Where is this stated?

Cronicles of the Fall indicate 95% of the Eldar race was killed.

1% fled aboard what were to become the Craftworlds. these also formed the Exodite populations.

the other 4% actually survived Slannesh's mind rape and fled to the Webway.

lexicanum wrote:When the Fall came, the Exodite worlds were untouched

Ok right off the bat we cannot speculate how many eldar there are because WE DONT KNOW HOW MANY CRAFT WORLDS THERE ARE!!! We know the ones GW has told us about but a new one comes out about every year or so so basicly its just a way of packing more fluff into the story line. Along with that there is a very small amount of documented Exodite worlds. In fact all of the codex's are based around what the Imperim of mans knows. So lets go back to the drawing board. There are 23 craft world known to the Imperium. There were about a trillion eldar home worlds. How exactly do those numbers line up? I mean its stupid to think that thats all thats left. The speculation of about 100 craftworlds is fair i can go with that but that would have to only be the ones that got out before the Eye exploded. There must be easily a thousand still in the eye. Plus all of the Eldar Pirates thats 10 trillion eldar easy. The exodites i have no idea i would say probably 100,000 or so per planet and again no way of telling how many there are. I would say that they are probably numbering in the 10-15 trillion range.

Grey Templar wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:There are more Dark Eldar than Craftworld Eldar, DE numbers are unknown but growing, sort of

Where is this stated?

Cronicles of the Fall indicate 95% of the Eldar race was killed.

1% fled aboard what were to become the Craftworlds. these also formed the Exodite populations.

the other 4% actually survived Slannesh's mind rape and fled to the Webway.

So the 4% formed the Deldar?

I thought the Exodites had split from the main Eldar Empire before the Fall, moving to remote parts of the galaxy and, and therefore missed out on the destruction.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

against twenty four warships that compare to an aircraft carrier as an aircraft carrier does to a bus

Air craft carriers are easy prey at close range.
So hundreds of DE craft successfully disabled the guns, a feature to be expected of pirates as pirates like to board without being shot to pieces.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

for all we know the missiles didn't even touch the spars, and they were just remotely detonated (educated guess based on the effective range of a missile launcher being less than the width of the ship, let alone enough to hit nine spars surrounding it on all sides).

In game ranges used in fluff?
Now thes uneducated guesses are not really surprising to me, but silly. If anything touched or not, if anything was remotely destroyed is
irrelevant. We can't know since it wasn't written.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
75% casualties is a lowball estimate, when they'd suffered 50% within minutes of landing, facing only what was already beneath them, and then later still some number greater than 50% but less than ~80% of what was left at alive that point managed to escape.

Made up would be the sad truth.
There is no timeframe in the story. To guesstimate 25 % casualties out of nowhere ?
The paragraph ends when the reduced 50% regroup. Next mention is their leave. The text isn't precise enough to draw any numbers from, but still youre on the path of making your own.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
So, losing somewhere in excess of half a chapter, to rescue a single, heavily damaged strike cruiser, at the very least losing every single gun on a battle barge and twenty four strike cruisers, potentially losing any number of those strike cruisers, all to those forces that they actively landed on top, in the time it took for the next closest houses to realize something was going on and rush to get in on the action, while Vect's servants took the opportunity to cripple the defense effort.

Confirmed losses of ~250 aren't half a chapter. Unconfirmed losses of strike cruisers again? Don't you think the escape of the Fleet means
a fleet escaped, not just the 2 named ships? As if, writing about 2 named ships would not lead to describe their actions as those of a fleet, instead the story would tell what these 2 named ships did.
Maybe consider a story in a DE codex won't show the details of any opposing force and their whereabouts fully.

You gave up a good chance to estimate numbers from the given size of the DE-reaction force just to piss on marines.
Funny.
Now it may be lost..

Eldrad wrote:Ok right off the bat we cannot speculate how many eldar there are because WE DONT KNOW HOW MANY CRAFT WORLDS THERE ARE!!! We know the ones GW has told us about but a new one comes out about every year or so so basicly its just a way of packing more fluff into the story line. Along with that there is a very small amount of documented Exodite worlds. In fact all of the codex's are based around what the Imperim of mans knows. So lets go back to the drawing board. There are 23 craft world known to the Imperium. There were about a trillion eldar home worlds. How exactly do those numbers line up? I mean its stupid to think that thats all thats left. The speculation of about 100 craftworlds is fair i can go with that but that would have to only be the ones that got out before the Eye exploded. There must be easily a thousand still in the eye. Plus all of the Eldar Pirates thats 10 trillion eldar easy. The exodites i have no idea i would say probably 100,000 or so per planet and again no way of telling how many there are. I would say that they are probably numbering in the 10-15 trillion range.

Lets see...
- codex DE tells us hundreds of craftworlds set sails to leave the corruptioned realm the Eldars Worlds had become.
- not all of them survived the fall. Most got caught in the shockwave of Slanesh birth. ( codex DE ).
- 11 are confirmed in multiple publications and a few are added to have something to destroy ( example Malantai ).
- the "crown worlds" are part of the eye of terror now, thus deemed lost.
- exodites and webway dwellers survive the fall. As do craftworlds, of the size of a small moon if they get far away enough.

So where do you find the thousands of craftworlds? trillions of homeworlds? Please tell.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:There are more Dark Eldar than Craftworld Eldar, DE numbers are unknown but growing, sort of

Where is this stated?

Cronicles of the Fall indicate 95% of the Eldar race was killed.

1% fled aboard what were to become the Craftworlds. these also formed the Exodite populations.

the other 4% actually survived Slannesh's mind rape and fled to the Webway.

So the 4% formed the Deldar?

I thought the Exodites had split from the main Eldar Empire before the Fall, moving to remote parts of the galaxy and, and therefore missed out on the destruction.

I should have been clearer

The Exodites were already on their worlds. i mearly included them in the 1%

sorry if i was misleading.

A trillion huh? I was under the impression that it was a lot less than that...

Don't forget that a lot of the craftworlds were shot through space and time. And many of them left the galaxy as well and may still be out there.

So did the 4% become the Dark Eldar?

yeah, the 4% became the Dark Eldar.

There's no way they had a trillion worlds. There isn't even that many habitable worlds in 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What's Chronicles of the Fall?

Eldrad wrote:There were about a trillion eldar home worlds.

Where did you read that? You are saying that the Eldar have more homeworlds than our galaxy have stars?
I always thought that they had around few thousand worlds in the galaxy, or maybe million like the IoM, but trillion?

No one has counted how many stars are in our galaxy. There could very well be trillions of stars in our galaxy. However, last I heard the Eldar only had hundreds of thousands of worlds as theirs before the fall.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:No one has counted how many stars are in our galaxy. There could very well be trillions of stars in our galaxy. However, last I heard the Eldar only had hundreds of thousands of worlds as theirs before the fall.

Indeed. During the height of Eldar power Humans still had more worlds.

there are a lot of craftworlds in the eye of terror, but it isn't sure how many still have eldar on them, but it is possible to live there for eldar, as maugan ra and his craftworld showed.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:No one has counted how many stars are in our galaxy. There could very well be trillions of stars in our galaxy. However, last I heard the Eldar only had hundreds of thousands of worlds as theirs before the fall.

From Wikipedia: "The Milky Way Galaxy, commonly referred to as just the Milky Way, or sometimes simply as the Galaxy,[a] is the home galaxy of the Solar System, and of Earth. It is agreed that the Milky Way is a spiral galaxy, with observations suggesting that it is a barred spiral galaxy. It contains 100-400 billion stars and is estimated to have at least 50 billion planets, 500 million of which could be located in the habitable zone of their parent star.[12] The Milky Way is part of the Local Group of galaxies and is one of around 200 billion galaxies in the observable universe."

Nothing about trillions of planets...

Yeah, thats a funny thing. It's called estimating...meaning they don't really know. They can make an educated guess but for centuries educated guesses said the earth was flat. And from what I've seen on many science shows on television they really don't know at all how many there are.

But we're not here to discuss that in detail, were trying to find out Eldar population, and in effect, I was sort of agreeing with you about how many Eldar worlds there are...nowhere near trillions.

Ok. I just pulled out my old Renegades supplement for the Epic game system. In the Eldar entry it states this:

"Long before mankind's first stumbling steps into space, the Eldar had spread through the galaxy. Their glittering civilization encompassed tens of thousands of worlds, planets so beautiful and full of wonder that their names alone conjure the paradise that was the Eldar Empire: Croesus, Mymeara, Iydris, and Eldorado the Golden. "

So, yeah...tens of thousands...not a lot compared to the imperium in the current timeline.

They take ages to grow up I think...

Roadkill Zombie wrote:

"Long before mankind's first stumbling steps into space, the Eldar had spread through the galaxy. Their glittering civilization encompassed tens of thousands of worlds, planets so beautiful and full of wonder that their names alone conjure the paradise that was the Eldar Empire: Croesus, Mymeara , Iydris, and Eldorado the Golden. "

Mymeara sounds like its the one of the upcoming FW/Imperial armor 11, right?

I think so, but I'm not sure, I haven't been keeping up on FW rumors.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:Yeah, thats a funny thing. It's called estimating...meaning they don't really know. They can make an educated guess but for centuries educated guesses said the earth was flat. And from what I've seen on many science shows on television they really don't know at all how many there are.

But we're not here to discuss that in detail, were trying to find out Eldar population, and in effect, I was sort of agreeing with you about how many Eldar worlds there are...nowhere near trillions.

Ok. I just pulled out my old Renegades supplement for the Epic game system. In the Eldar entry it states this:

"Long before mankind's first stumbling steps into space, the Eldar had spread through the galaxy. Their glittering civilization encompassed tens of thousands of worlds, planets so beautiful and full of wonder that their names alone conjure the paradise that was the Eldar Empire: Croesus, Mymeara, Iydris, and Eldorado the Golden. "

So, yeah...tens of thousands...not a lot compared to the imperium in the current timeline.

Estimating with the help of factual science. Estimating will never be exact until you actually physically count each planet, so you know how many there are. However their methods of estimation are accurate, so the number they produce is a rounding. When people thought the Earth was flat, they didn't stop and think, but conjured up a theory, a belief that the Earth was flat without actually going to any lengths to prove this. Various people throughout the ages speculated the roundness of the Earth, and some then made an estimate based on research and calculations, ie. they tried to prove their estimation, but since they didn't have a telescope to look down on Earth they couldn't actually prove they were right. If you were to actually go and work through their original maths and evidence, you would find that they were infallible.

On the Eldar, the actual size of their realm was slightly bigger than the Eye of Terror. I'd say they had anywhere up about a third of a million worlds,

OK i know a trillion worlds was an over statement but what i was getting at is that they had a ton of worlds and saying that only 23 craftworlds survived (yes i checked there are 23 craftworlds known today) doesnt make sense. i mean even if they were caught in the eye, haven't we seen a craftworld come out of it?

There are many craftworlds only the size of a city that we don't know about. They probably only have a few million people though.

Also isn't it possible since you know planets and stars are thought to be more densly formed closer to the center of the galexy and there is also believed to be more planets with oxygen the closer that you get to the center of the galexy that scientificly there would be more habitable planets closer to the center of the galexy. And you know the eye is closer to the center than we are so main stream science would state that in such a large plot of outer space could hold easily over 75,000 planets so i would think that there could easily be hundreds of thousands of eldar planets.

Well, it's hard to argue with canon fluff. Tens of thousands is the number they gave.

And that was at a time when Humanity was on a million worlds. The Eldar were never a big deal.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:And that was at a time when Humanity was on a million worlds. The Eldar were never a big deal.

The Eldar were a big deal, but it was more due to technology than numbers. They were relatively insignificant in terms of numbers and worlds controlled, but they were significant when they were encountered due to the level of technology they posessed.

At the time Humanity was incredibly advanced too.

Eldrad wrote:Also isn't it possible since you know planets and stars are thought to be more densly formed closer to the center of the galexy and there is also believed to be more planets with oxygen the closer that you get to the center of the galexy that scientificly there would be more habitable planets closer to the center of the galexy. And you know the eye is closer to the center than we are so main stream science would state that in such a large plot of outer space could hold easily over 75,000 planets so i would think that there could easily be hundreds of thousands of eldar planets.

But you also have to know that the closer you get to the center of the galaxy, the greater amount of radiation you will encounter as the stars are closer together.


Oxygen isn't a life prerequisite either. there is life on earth now that doesn't require oxygen, at least directly anyway.

Water is the only material that we currently know as being essential to life, but that wouldn't have to be the case. you could have life that uses other liquid componants in place of water.



the Fluff also says that the current EoT was the heartland of the Eldar empire, holding nearly 100% of the total population.

the current Imperium of Man hold roughly 1 million worlds and is stated to be bigger then the Eldar Empire at it's height.


also keep in mind that the IoM isn't the only Human faction out there. there are many Human empires in addition to the Imperium, mostly on the eastern fringe(mostly unexplored)

Roadkill Zombie wrote:Yeah, thats a funny thing. It's called estimating...meaning they don't really know. They can make an educated guess but for centuries educated guesses said the earth was flat. And from what I've seen on many science shows on television they really don't know at all how many there are.

But we're not here to discuss that in detail, were trying to find out Eldar population, and in effect, I was sort of agreeing with you about how many Eldar worlds there are...nowhere near trillions.

Ok. I just pulled out my old Renegades supplement for the Epic game system. In the Eldar entry it states this:

"Long before mankind's first stumbling steps into space, the Eldar had spread through the galaxy. Their glittering civilization encompassed tens of thousands of worlds, planets so beautiful and full of wonder that their names alone conjure the paradise that was the Eldar Empire: Croesus, Mymeara, Iydris, and Eldorado the Golden. "

So, yeah...tens of thousands...not a lot compared to the imperium in the current timeline.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:At the time Humanity was incredibly advanced too.

And the Eldar were just as advanced, if not more so. However, they were vastly outnumbered.