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jy2 wrote:@SonsofVulkan:

I ran a similar list once against a 9-skimmer mechdar list, only I had 4 dreads instead of 6. In their place, I took a shrouding librarian and a 4x incinerator purgation unit in psybolt razorback. Honestly, I don't think this list is as balanced as my purifier build. It's got more short-ranged AT but too many fragile troops with very little assault capabilities. Strike squads, even though they have power weapons, are just not reliable in assault, at least not against the more assaulty units out there. I will explore this build again in the future.

2 more dreads you will see good results, thats 8 more S8 shots at 2 more targets. 2 strike squads of 7 or 8 is enough, they will own any 5-7 man BA asslt marines/SW greyhunters. And ofc theres melta/plasma henchman in support. Trust me Coteaz is the way to go for GK.

Good battle report jy2. Sad to hear you lost. We all have our on and off days when it comes to mech.

Janthkin's list looks far from optimized. But a combination of using shadows, outflanking units, and moving sacrificial units to impede Grey Knight's movement allowed Janthkin to control the map.

jy2 wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:That is the problem with GKs is still there cost.

They are very expensive, but run like 15 point marines.

Honestly, their cost isn't really that big of a deal, especially if you consider how much more stuff you get with the "extra" 5pts. And then you can always run Coteaz and his cheap-as-chips henchmen to balance out the more expensive grey knights.

My quote was about their leadership. Yes they get a lot of things for their points (Stormbolters, Powerweapons, etc) but it is on a crappy leadership. It is like putting a $5000 stereo in a $1000 car.

Pyriel- wrote:Good batrep but please do use a good GK build in the rematch.

Less toys, more bodies, use toys in dedicated units that are meant to do what they do instead of sprinkled throughout every squad that is being poor at what it does.
For example an army is not effective with powerfists being spread throughout small devastator squads...

I just think that such a good nid build deserves to be met by an equally good GK build. Good battrep otherwise with pics and explanatory text, looking forward to the next and appreciate the effort you put into them.

Although I am not a fan of JY2's builds, the codex is new and people are still trying to find their way with it. He will eventually change his list around to find one he likes. Lists are always an evolution through trial and error, and it is kind of interesting to see the process.

I am going to be at 2 GTs with Jathkin in the next couple of months so I will see if I can give a better accounting for the GKs.

SonsofVulkan wrote:
2 more dreads you will see good results, thats 8 more S8 shots at 2 more targets. 2 strike squads of 7 or 8 is enough, they will own any 5-7 man BA asslt marines/SW greyhunters. And ofc theres melta/plasma henchman in support. Trust me Coteaz is the way to go for GK.

Honestly, I like my dreads but a lot of people are saying that too many dreads makes the army unbalanced. I am still experimenting to find that "magic" number. I've had great success with them against mech-spam but it is battles against nids, daemons and foot orks that have given me reservations to go all-out with my dreads. My current preference is 4 dreads with the vindicare.

SabrX wrote:Good battle report jy2. Sad to hear you lost. We all have our on and off days when it comes to mech.

Janthkin's list looks far from optimized. But a combination of using shadows, outflanking units, and moving sacrificial units to impede Grey Knight's movement allowed Janthkin to control the map.

LOL. I would've played against you had you been able to make it that day. Janthkin was just your "sub".

Blackmoor wrote:
My quote was about their leadership. Yes they get a lot of things for their points (Stormbolters, Powerweapons, etc) but it is on a crappy leadership. It is like putting a $5000 stereo in a $1000 car.

Which is why I normally use a purifier list. They won't break.

I do, however, include 2 small units of strike squads for the obligatory deepstrike defense. These squads I try to keep to a minimal in points-cost/upgrades.

Although I am not a fan of JY2's builds, the codex is new and people are still trying to find their way with it. He will eventually change his list around to find one he likes. Lists are always an evolution through trial and error, and it is kind of interesting to see the process.

I am going to be at 2 GTs with Jathkin in the next couple of months so I will see if I can give a better accounting for the GKs.

Good luck at the GT. Go Grey Knights!!! And also go Tyranids!!! (I play both).

First of all I would never use mech, mech in a GK army dont tend to do well against-all unless the mech is static and protected to make up for their fewer numbers.

But if you really want to go all mech then drop down on the purifyer numbers and ven dreads. Vens are overpriced or at least havea techmarine or librarian providing real cover for those fragile dreads.

jy2 wrote:

SabrX wrote:Good battle report jy2. Sad to hear you lost. We all have our on and off days when it comes to mech.

Janthkin's list looks far from optimized. But a combination of using shadows, outflanking units, and moving sacrificial units to impede Grey Knight's movement allowed Janthkin to control the map.

LOL. I would've played against you had you been able to make it that day. Janthkin was just your "sub".

It would had been an interesting match between my Tau and the Grey Knight list you used in this report.

I haven't played against Janthkin. Perhaps this summer we can get a game in. Maybe even an apocalypse game if we find a 4th player.

I'm free in June after my finals are over.

SabrX wrote:I haven't played against Janthkin. Perhaps this summer we can get a game in. Maybe even an apocalypse game if we find a 4th player.

Yes, please. I have a Barbed Hierodule I've used exactly once. They suck, mind you, but I like the model.

And I've got the the hierophant bio-titan, a barbed hierodule and a scythed hierodule.

But mostly you're just going to see a lot of outflanking genestealers and 120 respawning termagants/hormagants in my apoc army.

Wow! thats alot of flanking nids! Real tough to beat.

mindfield wrote:Wow! thats alot of flanking nids! Real tough to beat.

Usually outflanking nids aren't that bad, but in this case, both the tervigon and genestealers came in on the same side. Thus the tervigon was able to buff up the stealers while at the same time providing them with Shadows coverage. And it didn't help that I had an immobilised rhino there blocking my LOS to them.

Whoa! I didn't see the 'nids winning this one! Man, that was a good game though...well, for the 'nids ...I still can't get over how scary those Genestealers really are!

Good game again, and I can't wait to see another BR from you!

Man I thought the GK would win......When I read about your game I was like....No way!

I hoped you guys had fun and thanks to you I own my friend Coke beacuse he said Tyrnids would win.

By the way tell the tyranid player next time you see him that his models were awesome, I loved them!

I'm not very surprised that you lost, given that most of your actual killing power comes from 5 expensive anti-vehicle units and you encountered an army without vehicles. I don't see lists like this being effective in competitive/all-comers play because it seems like they will get stomped by hordes in general. While the Purifiers theoretically mitigate that, I don't think your actual Purifier count is high enough to make up for it. Dual-LR also looks like a big problem for your list, since it seems like the game would basically come down to hoping that your Vindicare could destroy an LR in the first two turns and that your psycannons could stop another before they get too far into your area.

Ultimately, while Psyfleman Dreadnoughts are good, they aren't the be-all end-all. I'd probably drop the Venerable Psyflemen, add another standard Psyfleman, and use the extra points to beef up your claiming ability. The Strike Squads should also really have Razorbacks instead of Rhinos.

Gosh I loved that terrain a ton. Great game too. As always you deliver some of the best reports around. Keep it up please!

@mega_bassist:

Genestealers, in large groups and with poisoned attacks, are very effective when used properly. That means with cover and FNP. Very hard to get rid of. They would be even scarier with preferred enemy from Swarmie or an Old Adversary tyrant.

Also, it helps their survivability greatly that we were playing on a terrain-heavy map.

Coming up next, Grey Knights vs Daemons in a rematch.


@bob the heretic:
Yeah, I had a blast even though I lost. My rolls were somewhat frustrating at times but that's just the way the game goes.

As for Janthkin, I'm let him know how nice his army is, though I think he'll probably see your compliment here himself.

Fetterkey wrote:I'm not very surprised that you lost, given that most of your actual killing power comes from 5 expensive anti-vehicle units and you encountered an army without vehicles. I don't see lists like this being effective in competitive/all-comers play because it seems like they will get stomped by hordes in general. While the Purifiers theoretically mitigate that, I don't think your actual Purifier count is high enough to make up for it. Dual-LR also looks like a big problem for your list, since it seems like the game would basically come down to hoping that your Vindicare could destroy an LR in the first two turns and that your psycannons could stop another before they get too far into your area.

Ultimately, while Psyfleman Dreadnoughts are good, they aren't the be-all end-all. I'd probably drop the Venerable Psyflemen, add another standard Psyfleman, and use the extra points to beef up your claiming ability. The Strike Squads should also really have Razorbacks instead of Rhinos.

Actually, I think my list can handle hordes. I just didn't get the rolls I needed this game - namely, my psychic powers. Cleansing Flame is just nasty against hordes, and if that doesn't work, I have my dreads to help lock them up. I did under-estimate the large genestealer squad and should probably have left a vendread to deal with them, but you live and learn.

Being someone who used to run LR-spam with my older daemonhunters (and sometimes Ravenguards), I think my purifier army has enough to deal with 1-3 land raiders. I am considering adding daemonhammers though, but right now, I prefer warding staves instead. But honestly, if my opponent is in such a rush to get their unit near my force weapon-wielding, I6 purifiers, I say "be my guest". Because next turn, I am going to lock down that unit with a dread and counter-assault with my purifiers.

As for my dreads, the regular dreadnoughts die just too easily. The vendreads, on the other hand, is just so much harder to kill. I believe statistically, it is 3x more survivable than the regular dread. I think it is worth it to keep them, though I am not above dropping them if I need to (for example, if I use land raiders or paladins in my list).

I prefer psybolt razorbacks for my 4x incinerator purgations, but will consider getting them for my strike squads.


@grayspark:

Yeah, my LGS has a lot of cool terrain. The only downside? Tends to be a lot of cover for infantry-based armies and lots of vehicles tend to immobilise themselves. But there's nothing like fighting in the countryside.

Thanks for the report!!


I must be missing something... I'm showing Janthkin's list at 1988...?

Well played, Janthkin! Jy2 is a really good player, but you wield those bugs like a scalpel. I love my bugs, just need to finish painting them!

Great report, Jy2, as always.

warboss_Russ! wrote:Thanks for the report!!


I must be missing something... I'm showing Janthkin's list at 1988...?

JY2 doesn't show that one squad of 'gants had spinefists, instead of fleshborers; +10 pts. (I showed up w/an 1850 list, and needed to add 150 pts real quick; the earlier version of the list actually ended up with 4 Elites choices, which jy2 was kind enough to point out before we made an embarrassing mistake.)

Reecius wrote:Well played, Janthkin! Jy2 is a really good player, but you wield those bugs like a scalpel. I love my bugs, just need to finish painting them!

Great report, Jy2, as always.

I still have full confidence that my purifier-dread list can take on tyranids, and I will most likely use them again the next time I go against nids.

And just as easily as they will beat nids in a rematch, I think they will give Bjorn wolves some problems as well.

Janthkin wrote:

warboss_Russ! wrote:Thanks for the report!!


I must be missing something... I'm showing Janthkin's list at 1988...?

JY2 doesn't show that one squad of 'gants had spinefists, instead of fleshborers; +10 pts. (I showed up w/an 1850 list, and needed to add 150 pts real quick; the earlier version of the list actually ended up with 4 Elites choices, which jy2 was kind enough to point out before we made an embarrassing mistake.)

Thanks for the correction. I will fix the list.

very nice rep and a really tough matchup (tyranids are nasty when played right

I agree splitting your forces was your downfall.

Here is my deal when faced with this mission. I hardly ever even bother holding the objective in my deployment zone and instead concentrate on taking his away from him for the win.

As a Space Wolves player, there is usually a good chance that I will have Long Fangs, Razorbacks, and a Rune Priest left in m lines that can at least keep an objective contested or last turn rush to contest at the end of a game.

In your case, you had five units that could probably have stayed behind for contesting duty without losing any of their effectiveness (Crowe being exception); 2 ven psyrifles, 2 psyrifles, and Crowe.

Of course, I could just be Monday Night Quaterbacking, but when faced with this mission, I almost always set it up to contest my objective, and claim my opponents. Only if I am seriously tabling my opponent, then I load up a GH pack back in their Rhino, and will zip them back to claim my home objective. Otherwise, I play for the win, by contesting my objective and taking my opponents.

Bug player did play well with his tactics as well as pretty much bracketing you with SitW.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to make sure you understand, I am not poking holes in what happened out of malice, I am just reading the report over and over for not only tactics development for myself, but maybe it might help out you as well Jy2.

I looked back at what it appeared his plan was and would even have committed keeping one Purifier squad back with Crowe and your psyrifle dreads with the rest of your force moving to take his objective. With what he declared would be outflanking, that little package sitting on your objective would have been more then efficient in probably taking down the Tervigon the turn after he arrived and then decimated the genestealers enough that when they did finally charge you in cover, you striking first would have finished them off easily.

@Jy2

Yes, my Bjorn wolves cry at all of that strength 8, twin linked shooting! I think it would still be a good fight and I would have the fire power edge, but it would be pretty brutal.

jy2's 6 Psy-Rifle Dreads GK vs. Reecius's spam-a-lot missiles SW would be epic! There's a lot of elements in the GK army that can hurt Long Fangs and AV10-11. As for SW, mass Str8 AP3 Kraks will hurt MSU GK Marines.

Yeah, it would be a brutal battle. I think my only telling advantage is Bjorn's reroll to go first, but the fact that all of his firepower is mobile means he can deploy defensively to mitigate the alpha strike. A lot would depend on terrain. But yeah, that would be a nasty shoot out!

I noticed no one else mentioned it, so Im just going to say:

Love the star ship troopers reference in the title

@Tyr Grimtooth:

Don't worry. I take no offense at criticism followed up by reasoning. I actually welcome it as it can help me, you and the readers to improve their games.

Basically, that would be my normal strategy against most opponents. However, Janthkin's tyranids have the mobility to get to my objective, and with quite a dangerous threat I may add. Against such an army, if you over-commit to an objective - whether going aggressively after your opponent's or castling up to defend your own - you are most likely going to play for a draw (assuming you don't have the speed/mobility to do a last minute contest). I decided that I wanted to go for the win, but in order to do so, I had to go after his objective as well as adequately defend mine.

But actually, originally I aggressively advanced all my units with the exception of 1 strike squad towards his objective. Then when his large block of stealers and 1 tervigon outflanked on the same board edge, I had to pull back some of my guys to deal with them. I think if I left 1 vendread behind to defend, it would have made a huge difference. Alas, I didn't. It also didn't help that my own rhino immobilised itself, thus blocking LOS to his stealers, and that I failed so many Cleansing Flame rolls as well as all my warding stave saves. Otherwise, I felt that I should have been able to hold my own objective with Crowe, 1 strike squad, 1 purifier squad, 1 dread and 1 rhino.

Reecius wrote:@Jy2

Yes, my Bjorn wolves cry at all of that strength 8, twin linked shooting! I think it would still be a good fight and I would have the fire power edge, but it would be pretty brutal.

Sounds like a date to me, if you have the time next week.

SabrX wrote:jy2's 6 Psy-Rifle Dreads GK vs. Reecius's spam-a-lot missiles SW would be epic! There's a lot of elements in the GK army that can hurt Long Fangs and AV10-11. As for SW, mass Str8 AP3 Kraks will hurt MSU GK Marines.

Actually, it'll probably be 5 psydreads and a vindicare. I've decided that I need the vindicare in my all-comer's list to deal with heavy armor.

Reecius wrote:Yeah, it would be a brutal battle. I think my only telling advantage is Bjorn's reroll to go first, but the fact that all of his firepower is mobile means he can deploy defensively to mitigate the alpha strike. A lot would depend on terrain. But yeah, that would be a nasty shoot out!

You may have the advantage on a heads-up battle as you will most likely get to strike first thanks to Bjorn, but my advantage against your wolves, besides my mobility, is Fortitude. You're going to hate it, especially after my vindicare snipes dead your rune priest.

Jaon wrote:I noticed no one else mentioned it, so Im just going to say:

Love the star ship troopers reference in the title

Really? I can assure you any reference to SST is purely coincidental.

BTW, what is this reference?

How often have you won with GK? I've read a few of your batreps now and it seems like they lose pretty frequently.

Currently, I've lost to Loganwing once, lost in a 2v2 battle vs Tau/Eldar, against daemons, against Witchhunters, once against orks and once against tyranids. But I've probably won almost double that many games so I'm at about 60% win.

Then again, I haven't really played competitively, have played against some tough competition, and have been more interested in experimenting at this moment.

I guess this just goes to show that Grey Knights are not all OP.

Yeah, fair enough, I'm still figuring out how I plan on beating them. I think I need to pack some more anti-MEQ shooting weapons in my army, maybe a Vindicator or 2.

Why you didnt use Dreadknight with heavy psycannon ,,?? S7 ap 4 large blast and rending(= at dice 6 nullify fnp) will be deadly agains Genestealers i think. (I am new at this forum and at warhammer 40000 so my questions will be sometimes stupid,sorry )