Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

You may want to check this out: http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Starting_with_the_Cygnar_Battlebox . Hope that helps.

Chimera_Calvin wrote:Having never played Warmahordes before (but looking into it seriously in light of GW's latest shenanigans) I'm a bit confused by the points system - is this correct?

1. You are allowed a maximum number of warcasters based on the size of the game.
2. Each warcaster is free and gives you free points to spend on 'jacks (presumably better 'casters give you fewer points in the interest of game balance?)
3. You then spend the rest of your points allocation on the army as you see fit (within whatever unit-by-unit restrictions apply)

1. Correct but multy caster is only at 100 points, which honestly, no one plays (at least no here).
2. Correct, most of the low wj/wb points casters/locks are either immense power houses themselves (Thagrosh comes to mind) or they come with a character jack/beast attached (epic Old Witch, epic Kaya, Bethayne)
1. Correct, Tier lists may further alter this.

I really like the look of the Retribution models. Would they be a good beginners army?

Thanks.

Soladrin- there is no epic version of the old witch.

Thanatos_elNyx wrote:I really like the look of the Retribution models. Would they be a good beginners army?

Thanks.

There is no such thing as a beginners army in warmachine/hoards. Each faction is just as easily playable for new players (casters are an entirely different animal).

If you like them go for it. Everyone knows the game needs more Ret players.

Now that the anniversary starter sets are available, I'm wracked with indecision for which starter set for Warmachine I should get. I generally like barrelling through and punching things until they die, preferably while they're on fire or something like that. Got anything that suits that playstyle?

Most everything can pull that off, in different ways. Khador obviously does it with their Warjacks, which are incredibly strong, very durable, and not too quick by themselves. Menoth can wreck face as well, with good durable warjacks who have access to an incredible amount of buffs, as well as a lot of ways to throw fire around the battlefield. Cygnar has Kraye, whose warjacks can kill things in the way of their charge target with their cavalry-style impact hits. Cryx is a little trickier, but their Helljacks' excellent speed and high volume of attacks let them get the first strike off and at bare minimum cripple their victim enough that they're likely to survive the counter-attack due to their high defense.

Ret doesn't really have a dedicated Myrmidon-caster (Yet. High hopes for Ossyan), so they're not really too well suited to wrecking face at the moment, although their infantry (especially the Dawnguard) are great for ripping things apart in melee, and have plenty of ranged options to back it up.

The most, "Barrel in, everything dies" faction I would say is Legion, personally. I describe them often as being the game's blitzkrieg army. The overall gameplan for them is to try and get first strike, and when you do, do so much damage that you either break the opponent's back or make it so they are trying to divert resoruces to try and get what is killing their stuff.

Khador can do some blitzkrieg as well, but are a bit more attrition-focused. They do a lot of "burst" speed, where theri seemingly slow stuff suddenly gets you from far away and cracks your skull in. They are sort of a balance between first-strike and attrition.

Trollbloods also have a bit of trying to just beat on you, but do it with a bit more slowness, and attrition. Their geenral tactics, in my experience, is to have a lot survive to get to you, and then when it does, kill you lots. THey hit hard and accurately, but don't get first strike as often. As a trade-off, though, they normally can survive and retaliate from first-strieks better.

These are the most "Hit and kill" factiosn to me. Cygnar and Retribution bring a lot more combined arms. Protectorate and Skorne are about synergy and buff effects, with Protectorate having a lot of denial to boot. Cryx hits hard, but uses contribution for casters to finish deals. Circle is a finesse army that tries to be surgical and does a lot of hit-and-fade, as well as spell-slinging, but doesn't really lend itself to screaming barbarian tactics.

Couple cents, there.

I was wondering, I've seen some models, from Cygnar for example, with the nation's crest on the top. Are those done freehand or are there transfers like with GW stuff?

Most of those are on the model and you just paint - not hard at all since its raised.

Portaljacker - some of the miniatures have the crest sculpted on top, while others(the new plastic warjacks are the best example, from what I remember) have the Cygnar swan freehanded on top. As far as I know, there are no transfer sheets for Warmachine and Hordes yet.

This guide shows off a few of the Warmachine faction symbols in a "how to paint them" tutorial:

http://archive.brushthralls.com/painting-techniques/symbol-painting.html

There actually are printable transfers available from bell of lost souls, but if you want them in white you need a printer that can use white ink.

Is there a faction that is played more than all of the other factions (a la Space Marines) in Warmachine, or are things pretty well-balanced? I've been considering getting into the game and I have my eye on Cygnar and Khador, but I want to see if they are overplayed before I begin building an army.

grayshadow87 wrote:Is there a faction that is played more than all of the other factions (a la Space Marines) in Warmachine, or are things pretty well-balanced? I've been considering getting into the game and I have my eye on Cygnar and Khador, but I want to see if they are overplayed before I begin building an army.

That hugely depends on your local meta.

As a rule of thumb it seems to be rather balanced, but my local meta, for example, has a higher number of Hordes (most noteable Circle Orboros or Skorne) than Warmachine.

This has really sparked my interest.

Two questions though:

1) Unless I misread 'Hordes' and 'warmachine' are designed in a way that that both systems can play each other? if so how much do the two systems differ except the Fury/Focus aspect.. or more to the point does it require both core rule books?

2) I've noticed the thread is predominately USA centric, could anyone from the UK comment on the scene over here?

disty wrote:
2) I've noticed the thread is predominately USA centric, could anyone from the UK comment on the scene over here?

There's not much to say. Its widely played throughout the UK, and a few shops will order in stock for you. If you're looking to buy on the internet however, be careful. Wayland Games offer decent prices but communication and service is not nearly as good as it could be. I've heard the same about some other companies online that's names escape me.

grayshadow87 wrote:Is there a faction that is played more than all of the other factions (a la Space Marines) in Warmachine, or are things pretty well-balanced? I've been considering getting into the game and I have my eye on Cygnar and Khador, but I want to see if they are overplayed before I begin building an army.

Cygnar seems to be the most popular followed up by Khador right after. On a global scale that is. Privateer Press hold a league based on a map that is updated with wins and losses from every participating store. Cygnar tends to get at least three territories with Khador usually grabbing two. So perhaps Cygnar is just the most organized, but from a quick glance they seem to have the most players. I agree with others though, check your Meta.

disty wrote:This has really sparked my interest.

Two questions though:

1) Unless I misread 'Hordes' and 'warmachine' are designed in a way that that both systems can play each other? if so how much do the two systems differ except the Fury/Focus aspect.. or more to the point does it require both core rule books?

The Focus and Fury mechanic are both quite different and rely on their own different rulebooks. There are enough differences that they can't really squeeze them in one and still include the general rules. Focus is very much resource management, while Fury is risk management. At least that's what I'm told. I haven't played Hordes, but I do know how the Fury system works. For now a very brief overview of each system.

Focus
- Your warcaster maintains a steady supply of Focus which he/she can allocate towards different jacks.
- Each jack caps at three focus unless bonded, in which case it is four.
- Focus left over and camped by your caster are used to increase your armour for every point of focus you still have. (3 focus left over = +3 to your armour)

Fury
- On the initial turn you start out with max fury, but afterwards the only way to gain more is take fury off of beasts or cut yourself for one point of damage.
- Beasts gain Fury for doing all the actions that warjack need focus to do. This could be running, charging, making extra attacks, boosting and etc.
- Beasts fury cap varies depending on whether the beast is heavy or light. A heavy beast usually has a cap of 4-5 and a light can be as low as 2 in some cases.
- While your Warlock can take Fury off of the Beasts to replenish his/her's own supply any left over will cause a frenzy check. What does this mean? Well you roll and try to roll under said warbeasts threshold with every Fury left over adding to your roll. If failed the Beast berserks and attacks the closest thing in its LOS. If it can reach something it does one attack, boosts to hit (if able) and damage (again if able). After that its turn ends and all fury is removed from the beast.
- A warlock can use fury to transfer damage to a Beast in its control area as well as healing a point off of a beast. Any damage exceeding the Beasts health during a transfer is dealt towards the caster.

So anyways that's about the differences between the Mechanics. It's debatable as to which system is better due to the multiple pros and cons. Some of them that I can think of:
Warmachine Pros:
- Warcasters maintain consistency throughout a game and the loss of a Jack does not effect you as much.
- I've been told our infantry tend to be better, not quite sure if this is true.

cons:
- Our damage grid is a bit more vulnerable that a beasts. It's easy to at least take out one system in comparison to a warbeasts mind/spirit/body

Hordes Pros:
- Warlocks can avoid the early game assassination by camping Fury and just transferring the damage from a large attack.
- Beasts are much better at Alpha striking than a Jack is.
- 'Locks can heal there beasts, by a point, and still have the Beast function at full efficiency even if down to three health.

cons:
- If your opponent has anyway in disrupting your Fury, adding or subtracting them from beasts, your plans will go awry and you will have to be more careful to make the most of your beasts.
- Losing your beasts will essentially lose you the game in most cases. If you can't win after your last beast dies then you're fighting a really uphill battle.

Sgt.Sunshine wrote:

The Focus and Fury mechanic are both quite different and rely on their own different rulebooks. There are enough differences that they can't really squeeze them in one and still include the general rules. Focus is very much resource management, while Fury is risk management. At least that's what I'm told.

You've got it right. One thing to consider is that Hordes armies do not tend to wat attrition battles (beast die and then the warlock can't generate as much fury).

Sgt.Sunshine wrote:
cons:
- If your opponent has anyway in disrupting your Fury, adding or subtracting them from beasts, your plans will go awry and you will have to be more careful to make the most of your beasts.
- Losing your beasts will essentially lose you the game in most cases. If you can't win after your last beast dies then you're fighting a really uphill battle.

One thing to add is you can't throw damage to a beast that has full fury on him.

Oh, right. Sorry, forgot about that. Looking back on that, it is very critical and running hot can have your warlock boned when an assassination attempt makes it past whatever defense you had up.

I think this is one area that Legion shines is having the pet lesser beast who's sole purpose is to dump damage off on. Having a pet shredder / harrier helps to buy off that one turn assassination run unless your opponent knows to kill the pet first.

12thRonin wrote:I think this is one area that Legion shines is having the pet lesser beast who's sole purpose is to dump damage off on. Having a pet shredder / harrier helps to buy off that one turn assassination run unless your opponent knows to kill the pet first.

Sole purpose? It seems you haven't run into eThagrosh or spawning pots enough Shredder spam will nom your face off!

disty wrote:This has really sparked my interest.

Two questions though:

1) Unless I misread 'Hordes' and 'warmachine' are designed in a way that that both systems can play each other? if so how much do the two systems differ except the Fury/Focus aspect.. or more to the point does it require both core rule books?

2) I've noticed the thread is predominately USA centric, could anyone from the UK comment on the scene over here?

Uker here, what would you like to know? The UK masters (supposedly where the best go to play) released 100 tickets for their tournament in Birmingham and they sold out in less than 24 hours. Every tournament I've been to has been full of friendly players and my local club (Oxford) plays Warmahordes every week so there's always somebody to play against.

Sgt.Sunshine wrote:
Cygnar seems to be the most popular followed up by Khador right after. On a global scale that is. Privateer Press hold a league based on a map that is updated with wins and losses from every participating store. Cygnar tends to get at least three territories with Khador usually grabbing two. So perhaps Cygnar is just the most organized, but from a quick glance they seem to have the most players. I agree with others though, check your Meta.

Cygnar is most played, but, Cygnar and Khador are also pretty much the most organized, using the PP forums to actually plan attacks and such. Still trying to set this up for Legion.

My local meta anyway:

Warmachine:
3 Khador
3 Mercenary
2 Cygnar
2 Retribution
1 Menith
1 Cryx

Hordes:
3 Circle
2 Minion
2 Skorne
2 Trolls
1 Legion (just me )

Do note that this is with like only... 9 players. Everyones got multiple armies. And to anyone starting the game, I can almost guarantee you, you will want a faction of both WM and Hordes in the end. If only to better master the full game and exploit the others weaknesses. (It's why I started Khador :3)

Due to the reasonable pricing and typically smaller battles in comparison with Warhammer, going for multiple armies is much less time/money consuming. Though you shouldn't switch for at least the first 6 to 12 months. Cause it will confuse you, and you can get so much out of just one faction, just by switching up casters.

I cannot stress enough how big of a game changer a different warcaster/lock is.

Quick example using 2 of my lists:

Vayl
Ravagore
Scythean
Seraph
Raptors (max)
Anyssa Ryvaal

35 points

eLylyth
Ravagore
Seraph
Bolt Thrower
Raptors (max)
Anyssa Ryvaal
Forsaken

35 points

I've only changed 1(cheapish) beast, and added one (cheap) solo for the eLylyth list.

This Vayl list is all comers and can quite effectively engage anything. The eLylyth list is a fast moving gun line, that will completely decimate anything at range. These 2 things play a completely different game, while you've only changed 3 things. Totaling up to a total price of: 43.08 dollars. (maelstrom prices) Total prices for having both of these lists at your calling:$237.81. And if you bought the battlebox, you now easily have enough models to play quite a few different lists with the most minor of investments (a solo, a small unit, a single beast etc.)

(This is just to give people an idea of the investment it is btw, by no means a guideline to buying your first legion xD)

As for a good shop, I order almost everything from Maelstrom, they have a standard 10% off, free shipping, and almost every other week they give you another 5-10%. And you get 1% buyback from each purchase.

Sgt.Sunshine wrote:The Focus and Fury mechanic are both quite different and rely on their own different rulebooks. There are enough differences that they can't really squeeze them in one and still include the general rules.

I wouldn't say they are actualy so different. The rules that encapsulate WM-specific adn Hordes-specific bits aren't actually that big, probably a dozen pages each. The thing to remember is that the core rulebooks come with about a dozen model entries per faction (3 warcasters/warlocks, 3 heavy warjacks/warbeasts, 3 light warjacks/warbeasts, 5 units, 1 solo), along with fiction, painting guides and galleries. Theoretically, they could make a book that has all the rules for both games, but the issue is that they would need to cut-back on what they show as the "basics" per faction, I believe.

Sgt.Sunshine wrote:Focus is very much resource management, while Fury is risk management. At least that's what I'm told. I haven't played Hordes, but I do know how the Fury system works. For now a very brief overview of each system.

...

Good summary. The added, "Can't transfer to full" clause is worth noting. Also, warlocks tend to have fewer spells, but can compensate this with the fact that each warbeasts comes with what is called an animus, which is like a spell that is added to the warlock's options as long as the beast is still alive. They tend to be a bit weaker then spells found on an actual warlock or warcaster's spell, in exchange for being more widely available and losable.

Sgt.Sunshine wrote:So anyways that's about the differences between the Mechanics. It's debatable as to which system is better due to the multiple pros and cons. Some of them that I can think of:
Warmachine Pros:
- Warcasters maintain consistency throughout a game and the loss of a Jack does not effect you as much.
- I've been told our infantry tend to be better, not quite sure if this is true.

WM tends to have better infantry and feats. Also, as I ntoed with animi, they tend to have more spells and those spells being "on card" spells tend to be better then equivalent animi. Warjacks also tend to, while having less focus, need less focus to do the same rsults due to higher average MAT, RAT, STR, P+S, and ARM.

Sgt.Sunshine wrote:cons:- Our damage grid is a bit more vulnerable that a beasts. It's easy to at least take out one system in comparison to a warbeasts mind/spirit/body

This is true, but remember that the consequences do hurt here. A mantra my friends use is that warcasters are better then warlocks, warbeasts are better then warjacks. Keeping this in mind tends to help keep it straight. Its balanced, just subtly so as there are a lot of widgets that pans things out.

Sgt.Sunshine wrote:Hordes Pros:
- Warlocks can avoid the early game assassination by camping Fury and just transferring the damage from a large attack.
- Beasts are much better at Alpha striking than a Jack is.
- 'Locks can heal there beasts, by a point, and still have the Beast function at full efficiency even if down to three health.

cons:
- If your opponent has anyway in disrupting your Fury, adding or subtracting them from beasts, your plans will go awry and you will have to be more careful to make the most of your beasts.
- Losing your beasts will essentially lose you the game in most cases. If you can't win after your last beast dies then you're fighting a really uphill battle.

Good summaries here. Also good pointing out the "You need your beasts or you die" thing warlocks ahve.

And stuff.

Blaque wrote: Also good pointing out the "You need your beasts or you die" thing warlocks have.

Though I agree, my Rhyas happily proves this wrong almost on a weekly basis. (cuts herself, butchers an enemies beast, eats its fury, uses said fury to wail on anything else in the neighbourhood, uses feat move to catch enemy caster and decapitates him/her/it)

So when poking around the Privateer Press website I found an up to date Erratta. Figured sense many of you are new you may find it useful.

http://privateerpress.com/files/WM%20MKII%20Rules%20Errata%20May%202011-final.pdf

Gaspy nerf! WOHOO!

But yeah, already saw it on PP boards.

Malfred posted it to the N&R forum as well.

I'm more happy about the Molik Karn nerf. eGaspy had at least a little defense against. The only way before to stop MK was to shoot him until he was dead on turn 1.

Molik Karn is still immune to freestrikes.

Yeah, the Molik nerf is pretty minimal as is the eGaspy. You just don't get side step from your own models, he is still going to your base to kill your caster from half way across the table.