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yes you definitely need some heroes and some skink priests. Cube of Darkness is such a great item and it shuts down enemy magic phases. Here is my typical 2500 point list (not on my computer with my army builder app at the moment, so this is rough estimate).

Slann
-bunch of disciplines, lore master, deny enemy caster 6s, cupped hands of the old ones, add a free power dice, etc

Saurus blocks
- units of 20 to 25
- full command
- spears and shields

Skink skirmishers:
- several units of 10 to 20 (super cheap units) with blow pipes

Salamanders:
-units of 3 with extra skink handlers

-hero scar vets
-usually weapons that add attacks, or great weapons since you will strike last always anyway

skink priest:
-cube of darkness, if 2 priests also dispel scroll

Optional stuff depending on who I am playing against:

Cold one Knights
Steggadons
Old blood on a carnosaur (if large point game)


I have had games where cold ones on the flank have been very effective. I put 5 of them with full command and a hero (6 total) and I used Life magic to regenerate them a few times and they plowed through the weak side of the flank and then were able to make it most of the game before being wiped.

I also cannot stress how awesome skinks are for the points. A unit of 20 skirmishers is like around 100 points, and they get 40 poisoned blow dart shots per a shooting phase. 40 dice destroys war machines, and many light armored units. It also destroys small heavy armored units. Point in case some WoC heavy knights charged my skinks once, so I stood and shot, there were 5 knights. Out of the 40 dice I rolled like 10 6s, so those are auto wounds. Then I rolled probably another 8 to 10 hits with about 5 ro 6 wounding. So 15ish wounds total, which means each knight had to save three times or die. Needless to say, some 1s were rolled and the knights were practically wiped by my wimpy unit of skinks. This doesn't happen every game, but for how cheap and mobile they are, they are great harassment units. Plus if terrain works out in your favor the little buggers are aquatic. Marshes are dangerous terrain, but aquatic models love it and have no penalties. Also with 8th edition rules on garrison building and special terrain some highly mobile units are sometimes a really good idea and you can use the terrain rolls to your advantage.

Here's My Current List:

Lords:

Slaan 315
Plaque of Tepoke, Rumination, BSB

Heroes:

Scar-Veteran 94
Halberd, Light Armour

Scar-Veteran 94
Halberd, Light Armour

Core:

24 Saurus 294
Full command

24 Saurus 294
Full command

Special:

20 Temple Guard 355
Full Command

10 Camo Skinks 120

10 Camo Skinks 120

Rare:

2 Salamanders 150

2 Salamanders 150

1977/2000

Squeeze in a cupped hands of the old ones on your Slann it will save your butt many times.

GW's on the scar vets is all i can say.

Crom wrote:Squeeze in a cupped hands of the old ones on your Slann it will save your butt many times.

I'm Taking Lore Of Life so i can hopefully negate a miscast on a 2+, but Cupped hands would be epic for my slaan as it would destroy wizards in large units if the roll was low enough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GoDz KI11JOY x wrote:GW's on the scar vets is all i can say.

Experience with Lizardmen?

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

GoDz KI11JOY x wrote:GW's on the scar vets is all i can say.

Experience with Lizardmen?

You have any yourself?

He is saying great weapon since Lizards initiatives are already really low, you strike last most of the time anyway. Also, most people dispel the heck out of the augment spell in life magic. It gives your mage the 2+ save and doubles the effectiveness of all the buffs. In fact, I use that spell most of the time to force my opponent to waste dispel dice on it, then I hit them with the big spell I wanted instead.

I'll have to agrre with the GW chorus, the only other weapon i see as good on a scar vet is the burning blade for the reasons i gave a few posts ago.

HoverBoy wrote:I'll have to agrre with the GW chorus, the only other weapon i see as good on a scar vet is the burning blade for the reasons i gave a few posts ago.

I'm probably going to take this weapon as it is great for doing what the Scar-Vet will need to do at getting rid of armour.

Replaced Halberds with GW's, have 19 points left, any ideas?

...another Saurus and the Ironcurse Icon on your Slann?

The thing with the Slann is, while he can have a lot of super awesome toys, he's also a great caster as he is. You're paying as much for your Slann as I am for my Grey Seer, and you get more wounds, more power dice, more spells, and he's your BSB. Sure, you can add Becalming Cogitation, Focus of Mystery, and the Cupped Hand of the Old Ones, but now he costs 145pts more. Sometimes it's just overkill.

...but it's usually not. I've seen point-denial lists that stack 36 Temple Guard into a unit with the Slann and just make them impossible to kill. Even at 20 models strong, losing the unit will probably lose you the game, so it's not really that big of a deal, tactically. The Slann can nab you some points, and your gigantic unit will keep all of it's points locked safely away.

Then, it's just a matter of determining how competitive you want to be. I usually err on the less-competitive side. I want an epic struggle, not a one-sided yawn-fest.

It's never ever overkill to take Becalming and focus of mystery.. Beclaming is quite possibly the best ability the slann or really anyone can get if you face ANYONE with decent magic

Routinely its like having a dispel scroll every phase for me

Basically if you wanna be less competitive just take less salamanders and dont use lore of life

Also, halberds are okay on scar vets if you plan on using lore of light but I tend to stick with GW or burning blade + maiming shield

Well, Becalming is great, sure. And I might take it as my one free ability (that or Rumination). But an extra 50pts to know all the spells of a Lore? Probably unnecessary most of the time. And you certainly don't need both Rumination and Becalming to be a fearsome caster.

Warpsolution wrote:...another Saurus and the Ironcurse Icon on your Slann?

The thing with the Slann is, while he can have a lot of super awesome toys, he's also a great caster as he is. You're paying as much for your Slann as I am for my Grey Seer, and you get more wounds, more power dice, more spells, and he's your BSB. Sure, you can add Becalming Cogitation, Focus of Mystery, and the Cupped Hand of the Old Ones, but now he costs 145pts more. Sometimes it's just overkill.

...but it's usually not. I've seen point-denial lists that stack 36 Temple Guard into a unit with the Slann and just make them impossible to kill. Even at 20 models strong, losing the unit will probably lose you the game, so it's not really that big of a deal, tactically. The Slann can nab you some points, and your gigantic unit will keep all of it's points locked safely away.

Then, it's just a matter of determining how competitive you want to be. I usually err on the less-competitive side. I want an epic struggle, not a one-sided yawn-fest.

I'm taking 20 because i think 36 with Lore of Life, which can potentially up the units toughness to 8, would be overkill!

You want to shut down the enemy mage if possible. If they can take shadow magic you gotta watch for the S and T debuffs, Arkham's Mind Razor (or whatever it is called) which allows them to use their LD as their STR, and of course the pit of shades, which is initiative test or die.

It is the answer to the Life Mage Slann, it undoes the buffs with the debuffs, and if other races have high STR and strike before you, they are gonna put a pounding on you. I deny the enemy wizard 6s, I add the extra power die to my rolls, I always roll with a cupped hands. I will toss 6 dice at something to get a miscast on purpose to hand it off to the enemy mage in hopes they die. Sometimes it works, sometimes they lose a level.

If your opponent knows they are facing a life magic Slann, they can counter it with other mages/magic. Most armies have a better character list as well. With lizardmen you get lvl 1 or 2 skinks and then level 4 slann, you don't get any Lord Skink selections, and hero skinks are limited. You also cannot buy a level 3 slann for cheaper either.

If you are going to run the Slann you may as well build him for magic dominance, because there are plenty of things you can face in game from other races that can counter the slann. Mark of Tzeench, Sac dagger, Teclis, feed back scrolls (yeah a lot of times they will let you get that buff off and then you take damage), there is some chaos spell which affects your whole army's leadership....and it is 100% lame.

I think if you are going to take the Slann, might as well dominate with him. Otherwise it can back fire. Just my opinion.

Agreed, hence why I always use the 465 pt Super Slann

@GodsBuzzsaw: the idea with point-denial isn't to bring enough to get the job done, it's to pour as many of your points into as hard-to-get of a place as you can. And Temple Guard, being Stubborn, T4, 6, or 8, maybe with a 5+ Regen and S5 attacks to grind you down with, are pretty damn hard to get.
It's by no means the only Lizardman strategy. But it's a viable one.

As I said, though, Becalming Cogitation and Focused Rumination are hands down the best. Higher State is 3rd, I'd wager. I think Focus of Mystery and Soul of Stone are overpriced, and the others are just plain awful. MR3 is almost good, but still next to useless in a game where the scary spells don't allow saves.

The Cupped Hands is very good; too good, really. But that's most of the Slann's talents. And again, with Life Magic, it's really not all that necessary.

Feedback Scrolls are also not a good way to deal with Slann at all. If, somehow, you don't get IF on your 6 dice, you'll take an average of one wound, after saves. For 50pts? I'll pass.

The Slann is hands-down the best caster in the game. You can dump a lot of points in to him, but I think that benefits you more from a point-denial stance than any other. I usually run: BSB, Standard of Discipline, Plaque of Tepok, Becalming, Focused, and maybe Higher State, for 380-430. In 2000pt games and up. He's not the most tricked-out he can be, but he's miles ahead of any other caster, cheap enough that I can fit in another fun toy or two somewhere else, and doesn't have the same ol' crap that every Uberslann brings to the table that opponents have learned to hate.

Teclis is the best caster in the game

Crom wrote:Teclis is the best caster in the game

But Teclis is too weak.

Crom wrote:If your opponent knows they are facing a life magic Slann, they can counter it with other mages/magic. Most armies have a better character list as well. With lizardmen you get lvl 1 or 2 skinks and then level 4 slann, you don't get any Lord Skink selections, and hero skinks are limited. You also cannot buy a level 3 slann for cheaper either.

That would be making an Anti-List Though.

Eh Teclis is not better than a Slann.. Yes in *one* way he is because he casts spells better however the Slann is all around vastly superior

Cant be killed until his entire unit is gone (Most of the time)
T4, 5W, 4+ ward save vs T2 3W no save
Same power dice as teclis if you use the 465pt version
No vulnerability to direct attacks
NOT a crutch (Slann is a basic character where as Teclis is a special and due to being easily killed the entire army tends to crumble once hes dead)
Superior anti-magic defense (Yeah teclis has a scroll which is decent, but cogitation is amazing)
LD10 Rerollable to everyone (if you use 465pt slann.. No need to spend another 150 on a BSB)

Teclis gets a permanent 2+ save to miscasts and can irresistible force on any doubles and he ignores his first miscast of every turn. He can dominate magic phases. If you are playing a Dark Elf, or anyone that can use shadow magic, they will use shadow magic against you. The sacrificial dagger is so annoying. A good dark elf player will put his mage in a horde of cheap spearmen. Then to load his scores up so high you cannot dispel (unless you roll double 6s) he will use his sac dagger to gain more power dice. Every single time I play dark elves this happens. I usually hold my dice for pit of shades but that means letting them get off all the buffs/hexes and stuff which is bad. Mark of Tzeench gives the level 4 chaos mage an extra level essentially, and they have spells that can negate army wide leadership bonuses, which takes away cold blooded at times.

If you are going to use a Slann dominate magic with them. Plus high elf magic can be devastating. They have a spell that destroys your magic items. So, you want to deny Teclis his 6s, and any other mage that can cause you trouble.

I dont think Ive ever let pandemonium be successfully cast in the entire time its been a spell.. Best defense is knowing your opponents spells and what to dispel!

Becalming makes it almost guaranteed that you'll dispel the enemies most dangerous spell unless hes Teclis

Kirasu wrote:I dont think Ive ever let pandemonium be successfully cast in the entire time its been a spell.. Best defense is knowing your opponents spells and what to dispel!

Becalming makes it almost guaranteed that you'll dispel the enemies most dangerous spell unless hes Teclis

Except when you are playing a dark elf with a sac dagger, and they decide to sac 4 spearmen for 4 extra dice at the end of the magic phase and totally jack up their score. It is so broken, and I am sure it will get nerfed eventually. I hate sac daggers.

For the record, I was making the claim that the Slann is the best non-special character caster in the game. Teclis is, in fact, better at magic. For some stupid reason.

The Dagger isn't all that great, in my opinion. It's good. Very good. But it amounts to an extra d6/spell, if they need it.

Tzeentch casters are good too, but again, I don't think they can hold a candle to a Slann with Becalming and Rumination.

You want to dominate the magic phases with your Slann? You only need to spend 325pts to do so. Sure, you can spend more to dominate even further, and it's a solid choice. But the Minislann is by no means a bad choice.

The sac dagger allows to add any more dice the DE player wants even after rolling the first results. I have seen DE players boost spells to 30+ scores with it so I cannot dispel things like pit of shades on my horde blocks of saurus, which is very very bad to say the least. You cannot always roll double 6s for ultimate dispel either.

Well sac dagger she can only add 1 per cast, which may mean they are playing it wrong.

tiekwando wrote:Well sac dagger she can only add 1 per cast, which may mean they are playing it wrong.

You sure it is only one per a cast? I thought it was as many as you wanted up to the maximum amount of power dice that can be cast, or in the pool.

IDK seems very clear to me:

"Once per spell-casting attempt, after the casting dice have been rolled, the Sorceress may sacrifice a model in a unit she has joined - ..."

So she can only do it once per spell casting attempt and she can only sacrifice a model.

well that changes the whole game against dark elves for me....gonna read the book now

Crom wrote:well that changes the whole game against dark elves for me....gonna read the book now

Do It!

I agree that my Temple Guard unit is fairly small, but if i was to add more to it it would mean the rest of my army would be mucked up as I need several units of Camo skinks and more than one unit salamanders would be better.