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axeman1n wrote:How do we find out if they take stuff out of the FAQ? I could have sworn that they removed "Mob" rule from the Deffkoptas in the last FAQ update, and now it's not there. Did they change their mind? Why isn't that on there crossed out or something?

Compare it with the previous one?

axeman1n wrote:How do we find out if they take stuff out of the FAQ? I could have sworn that they removed "Mob" rule from the Deffkoptas in the last FAQ update, and now it's not there. Did they change their mind? Why isn't that on there crossed out or something?

deff koptas can only in normal games play up to 5 per squad. with 7 lead they wouldn't want to use mob rule. as previously said in apoc it might be useful, but lets be honest mob rule for a large squad of koptas isn't going to break apoc

Wow; 3 responses that utterly failed to read my second post; WTGG! Maybe next time we read the whole thread before we jump on a post, eh?

kmdl1066 wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:

I like the KFF ruling, it is now "all or nothing" instead of 4+ for the individual vehicles, and a 5+ for the unit if less than 2 of 3 are within range(I advocated the RAW, but hated the outcome).

You can still get the 5+ if the unit is within 6" of the Big Mek but less than half the squadron is obscured. The FAQ clarified that the cover save for being obscured was 4+.

wtf you smoking read that dam rulebook

Obsurced is 4+ allways has been
5+ is only for NON-Vehicles

A unit of vehicles will get a 4+ cover save if half of them are obscured, what is hard to understand?

except vehicle models not within the 6" bubble explicitly do not get the save as per the faq...

Note that for a squadron of vehicles only those
within 6” of the custom force filed will count as
obscured.

if your kan is not witihn 6" of the force field you do not get obscured status, this being a specific rule overrides the general rule for squads getting saves.

blaktoof wrote:except vehicle models not within the 6" bubble explicitly do not get the save as per the faq...

It still doesn't matter. Models outside of the 6" bubble are not receiving a cover save from the KFF, they are receiving the save because the majority of their unit is in cover. It has nothing to do with the KFF. For Kans, let's say there are 2 of 3 within 6" of the KFF. The 3rd one receives an obscured save because the majority of their unit has a cover save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

blaktoof wrote:
if your kan is not witihn 6" of the force field you do not get obscured status, this being a specific rule overrides the general rule for squads getting saves.

I disagree. I think you're reading too much into the FAQ, taking every single word as sacrosanct.

ThatMG - i suggest you read your own rulebook. You only get a 4+ if it is obscured via wargear and it doesnt specify otherwise.

OTHERWISE you get a 4+ iff the cover provides a 4+ save to *infantry* - if the cover provides a 5+, 3+ or 6+ save then an obscured vehicle only getsthe appropriate save.

yes, but it would not be a 4+ save as per the person above my previous post stated. because any model outside of the 6" bubble is not obscured even if the rest of the squad is regardless of number obscured -as per the faq.

actually i disagree with what I just said.

the models outside of cover will not receive a cover save at all from KFF if most of the squad is in cover and they are not. the faq explicitly states that models outside of the 6" but in a squadron that is do not get obscured status. Obscured status is what grants a save.

the section in the BRB regarding units in cover states that if the majority of the models are in cover then the entire unit is in cover. That is a general rule. The faq has a specific rule for a specific item in a codex outside of the BRB that states models not within 6" but part of the squadron do not get obscured status. Therefore models not within 6" regardless of how many are within 6" from the squadron do not get an obscured save. The faq is actually pretty clear on its stance on giving obscured to squadrons and only models within 6" count as obscured, models outside do not count as obscured- and anyone trying to state the cover for units rule is ignoring a specific rule in favor of a general one

that and of course vehicles do not benefit from cover in the same way as infantry they get obscured for hull down, not cover saves....

I disagree. I think you're reading too much into the FAQ, taking every single word as sacrosanct.

im not reading into the faq, i am reading the faq. It says in exact words :

Q: What cover save does kustom force field give to a
vehicle within 6" of it? (p35)
A: 4+. Note that for a squadron of vehicles only those
within 6” of the custom force filed will count as
obscured.

pretty clear vehicles in a squad not within 6" are not obscured. The whole "note that for a squadron of vehicles only those within 6" of the custom force filed will count as obscured"

saves for vehicles come from being obscured or vehicles upgrades/special rules for that specific model that give a specific save, they do not get cover like infantry do.

KFF rules state that any unit with a model within 6" is affected.

It tells us that any affected unit gets a 5+ cover save or, if a vehicle, counts as obscured.

The FAQ then tells us that only vehicles within 6" count as obscured, which clears up a potential confusing point about whether the entire unit counts as obscured or not. An infantry unit gets the effect across the whole group of models - walker and vehicle squadrons do not.

Further from this, the squadron rules tell us that if more than half of the unit is in cover, the entire unit gets a cover save.

So, we now know that:

1) Vehicles get a 4+ save within 6"
2) Only those vehicles within 6" count as obscured
3) If more than half of the vehicles are withni 6" and therefore obscured, the squadron rule grants the entire unit that 4+ cover save.

It seems nice and simple to me.

Miraclefish wrote:It tells us that any affected unit gets a 5+ cover save or, if a vehicle, counts as obscured.

It's not an "or" situation, it's an "and".

ThatMG wrote:

kmdl1066 wrote:

You can still get the 5+ if the unit is within 6" of the Big Mek but less than half the squadron is obscured. The FAQ clarified that the cover save for being obscured was 4+.

wtf you smoking read that dam rulebook

Obsurced is 4+ allways has been
5+ is only for NON-Vehicles

A unit of vehicles will get a 4+ cover save if half of them are obscured, what is hard to understand?

5+ is for any unit within 6". Last time I read the rulebook a squadron of vehicles was still a unit.

Last time I read the rulebook vehicles got a cover save from whatever was providing the obscurement (is that even a word), which if unspecified defaulted to a 4+. There have been several gazillion page threads on YMDC about whether or not the KFF was specifically providing 5+ cover for being obscured. Both sides had equally compelling RAW arguments and the FAQ is a welcome clarification.