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having mmarbo, alraheim and straken in the same 2k army, more special characters than your opponent know what to do with, also saying excellent when ever they do something that ruins your plan, just to throw them off

You could occasionally look up and down your opponent then wink at them. That would throw me off. In fact, good chance I might pack up and leave.

Fairfeldia wrote:having mmarbo, alraheim and straken in the same 2k army, more special characters than your opponent know what to do with, also saying excellent when ever they do something that ruins your plan, just to throw them off

You're not allowed any more than 2 SCs in a non-Apocalypse game IIRC...

I personally like to look very nervous, then very relieved when they make a move that actually DOES scare me. I don't say or do anything else, but it has been very useful before. Once I managed to get a raider as opposed to charge my Tau gunline to hide behind trees instead. I do not believe, however that was my most skilled opponent.

Exclaim "JUST AS PLANNED" when something terrible happens to one of your units.

@trollpie, if that is true then i hope its picked up at a tourney, but i only play with my friends andive never had a problem about fighting against ghaz, snik and the super mad doc whos name eludes me

Fairfeldia wrote:@trollpie, if that is true then i hope its picked up at a tourney, but i only play with my friends andive never had a problem about fighting against ghaz, snik and the super mad doc whos name eludes me

It is true. It's clearly stated in the rules that HQ is 1-2. You guys have been playing wrong Let me guess, someone uses 6 wraithlords as well?

i thought marbo was an elite choice?

Lt. Coldfire wrote:

Fairfeldia wrote:@trollpie, if that is true then i hope its picked up at a tourney, but i only play with my friends andive never had a problem about fighting against ghaz, snik and the super mad doc whos name eludes me

It is true. It's clearly stated in the rules that HQ is 1-2. You guys have been playing wrong Let me guess, someone uses 6 wraithlords as well?

Unless the SC isn't an HQ selection or is an upgrade to a squad, ala Tellion. I use Tellion regularly with Pedro Kantor and would love to add Lysander to the mix at higher point ranges, say 2k, making 3 legal special characters in one army.

Oh hmmm.. yeah. For some reason I took SC to mean HQ unit. Fail.

I think that the 3 ork characters that Fairfeldia listed are HQ units though, right? Give me some credibility here.

Snikrot is a upgrade character i believe. Sorry.

Doomthumbs wrote:
I've heard about this one guy who will drink a bottle of liquor during tournaments and gets all loud and obnoxious as a result.
As a happy drunk myself, I've dealt with the stigma that lots of drinking comes with, and the looks even close friends will give me when I'm reaching the bottom of a bottle.
Is this a valid psychological tactic? To be disruptive while drinking? Perhaps the mild mannered of our scene would be intimidated by that.

It's probably illegal unless the place your tournament is in is also a liquor vendor.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Doomthumbs wrote:
I've heard about this one guy who will drink a bottle of liquor during tournaments and gets all loud and obnoxious as a result.
As a happy drunk myself, I've dealt with the stigma that lots of drinking comes with, and the looks even close friends will give me when I'm reaching the bottom of a bottle.
Is this a valid psychological tactic? To be disruptive while drinking? Perhaps the mild mannered of our scene would be intimidated by that.

It's probably illegal unless the place your tournament is in is also a liquor vendor.

Imagine that, tournament beerhammer!

hurray for ignorance fixing possible rule breaks !

TheBlueRedPanda wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I completely see your point & where you are coming from. I'm not arguing against 'unbalancing your opponent' as you call it, I'm merely arguing that out of a variety of manners in which to do so,the specific example cited by Dash seems to me to be largely ineffective at doing so, resulting in no true advantage, but merely lowering your opponent's opinion of you.

Yeah...

When my opponent does something and I say "Hm. Interesting." I've totally had opponents everywhere tell me that it lowered their opinion of me. As I've said - this may not be the right venue for you.

A good first turn always helps IMO. Grad a couple of objectives, deal significant damage to 2+ of his units, or destroy vehicles. Really puts an opponent on the back foot.

Reserves also mess with an opponents head, as he has no idea when and where your battleline will be reinforced.

CadianXV wrote:Grad a couple of objectives,

If your opponent thinks you holding objectives on turn 1 matters, you've probably already won.

Dashofpepper wrote:

TheBlueRedPanda wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I completely see your point & where you are coming from. I'm not arguing against 'unbalancing your opponent' as you call it, I'm merely arguing that out of a variety of manners in which to do so,the specific example cited by Dash seems to me to be largely ineffective at doing so, resulting in no true advantage, but merely lowering your opponent's opinion of you.

Yeah...

When my opponent does something and I say "Hm. Interesting." I've totally had opponents everywhere tell me that it lowered their opinion of me. As I've said - this may not be the right venue for you.

Are you saying that this hobby goes hand in hand with being a jerk? That doesn't make sense.

In every single form of real competitive play, mind games are present. Even seemingly innocuous comments can be said in a slightly mocking way, or at just the right time. Doing small things that put your opponent in a bad mental state can make your wins easier. If your opponent does not like you and has a low opinion of you, he may try to 'show you who's boss' and make a bad play. Mind games inside the ruleset of 40k are less common due to the lack of hidden information, but ultimately, when you're playing for the win you do what works. Being a nice guy tends to work at cross purposes to winning. Playing fair is completely different from playing nice.

Has anyone mentioned crop-dusting?

Dashofpepper wrote: I've totally had opponents everywhere tell me that it lowered their opinion of me.

My point exactly.

Intentionally taking an excessive amount of time in the shooting phase.

Also, doing this-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n7fz6WQCzM&feature=related

GreyHamster wrote:In every single form of real competitive play, mind games are present.

I'm in a tenuous position with the people I play with. I'm above their level of play, so I'm trying to train them to be better, so I can be better.

The problem is luring my opposition into making bad decisions and making them think it was a good idea is pretty high on my list of reasons why. So already I have to say something like "usually I try to encourage you to make a dumb decision, but in this case you should consider X". And on another level, I'm not certain I actually trust myself to do that when the game is on. What if I'm still giving them terrible advice and just lying to myself? I'm not sure I can tell.

Play Orks. Field fewer units than my opponent. I once had literally half the number of models as a Marine player on the table.


Also, use units that are generally considered "bad". Tankbustas are great for that. I basically target my opponent's biggest, strongest tank with them; they either kill it, or keep its attention until something else kills it- like Landraiders. They're good for that. Because they can potentially harm any vehicle out to 30", and are almost certain to kill any vehicle within 12".

DarknessEternal wrote:

CadianXV wrote:Grad a couple of objectives,

If your opponent thinks you holding objectives on turn 1 matters, you've probably already won.

I take your point, but such an aggressive action puts your opponent on the back foot. It makes him feel it matters far more than it actually does.

timetowaste85 wrote:

Ajroo wrote:

jeleopard wrote:I like to say "dink" whenever I make an armor save (bullets bouncing off the armor), or, playing orks, move my boys. One. At. A. Time. I once had someone get so mad at me from both of these things that he quit. XD

i dont think that really counts as a win!

Yeah, honestly if you did this in a game with me, I'd probably quit too. And tell all my friends not to play you. This is obnoxious behavior. Making yourself such an unfavorable player that your opponents would probably rather commit suicide than play against you is not gonna get you more games.

Ouch. Honestly, I'm a chill guy.

I only do the aforementioned tactics against people I REALLY don't like (My gaming club has a necron player who keeps and rolls off his dice in a tray, and picks the best result in a pile -.- He also will sometimes drop dice from his hand, and if it's in his favor, he'll keep it, but if it's not, he rerolls it. It's pretty awful. He's the kind of guy who I'd do that to, and that's cause I know him)

DarknessEternal wrote:

GreyHamster wrote:In every single form of real competitive play, mind games are present.

I'm in a tenuous position with the people I play with. I'm above their level of play, so I'm trying to train them to be better, so I can be better.

The problem is luring my opposition into making bad decisions and making them think it was a good idea is pretty high on my list of reasons why. So already I have to say something like "usually I try to encourage you to make a dumb decision, but in this case you should consider X". And on another level, I'm not certain I actually trust myself to do that when the game is on. What if I'm still giving them terrible advice and just lying to myself? I'm not sure I can tell.

I don't think psychological tactics are necessary against sub-par competition. I'm referring to using them in a top tier GT on a top table where you're playing against the best of the best.

BlueRedPanda and detractors: I've yet to meet someone at that caliber of play...where employing every card in your disposal is useful...who gets offended if I say, "Hrm...interesting."

Against local guys? Nope. If I play against Hulksmash...whom I generally consider to be the best player in the world...I'm pulling out all the stops.

*hint* That was a psychological tactic. Things like that are another common competitive psychological tactic. "Holy smokes, I was afraid of playing you...etc etc etc."

Dashofpepper wrote:

I don't think psychological tactics are necessary against sub-par competition. I'm referring to using them in a top tier GT on a top table where you're playing against the best of the best.

BlueRedPanda and detractors: I've yet to meet someone at that caliber of play...where employing every card in your disposal is useful...who gets offended if I say, "Hrm...interesting."

Against local guys? Nope. If I play against Hulksmash...whom I generally consider to be the best player in the world...I'm pulling out all the stops.

*hint* That was a psychological tactic. Things like that are another common competitive psychological tactic. "Holy smokes, I was afraid of playing you...etc etc etc."

Well obviously, like any rule of thumb, there ought to be exceptions. Now:

1. If the rule of thumb in question is that one should generally avoid playing games of 40k in a manner considered annoying, condescending or rude
2. Then the exception can be interpreted as when one is participating in a scenario where winning by any means possible is of paramount importance

Thus, the argument lies in what qualifies as such a scenario. I completely agree with your suggestion that top tier GT matches qualify, as would many tournament matches that are not top tier - hell, even grudge matches against your cousin could feasibly qualify - it all depends on how important winning is for you.

My main point then is that the negative impact that such actions can have on others' perception of you generally outweigh the comparatively small psychological edge that they give you - however some games are so important that any psychological edge, no matter how small, is worth it.

Mentality is critical. As Dash mentioned in a very DE fashion, it's all about mindset. When you think you will win, then ideas and option will appear to you that otherwise you would have missed.

When someone thinks they will lose, then they miss those options as they are viewing their defeat in the game.

Often when playing someone I'll know on turn 2 that I'm going to win. It's because my opponent has defeated himself, and not because of skill. When I find it happening, I try to be as much fun as possible to play with, as I want people who lose to want to keep playing. There is never a reason to be a douche when playing with toy soldiers.

TheBlueRedPanda wrote:
My main point then is that the negative impact that such actions can have on others' perception of you generally outweigh the comparatively small psychological edge that they give you - however some games are so important that any psychological edge, no matter how small, is worth it.

The perception those people should be drawing is "I shouldn't be so gullible."