Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Kanluwen wrote:That doesn't "make them PDF" in the general sense. This isn't really complex to understand. [...] Interior Guard are not PDF, except in the sense that they defend the planet.

That's not what his quote says, though. You seem to be quite fond of accusing people of a lower intelligence (third time I'm reading a thread with you using that sentence), and you should really work on that attitude - especially when you're starting to contradict yourself instead of simply admitting you might've been wrong.

For the record: Every planet has its own name for its PDF. "Interior Guard" simply seems to be the one applied to Cadia's. Every planet's PDF also has a different degree of quality (depending solely on how the local government runs it and what tech-level they have), and Cadia's PDF would without doubt be better trained and equipped than average. The same would likely apply to the Catachan or Mordian PDF, though. Or any other regiment that has been described as having a special trait in the IG Codex.

An important thing to consider would be, however, that the Cadian PDF would effectively be a permanent part of the IG hierarchy, as is the case in every war zone where PDF are operating alongside the Imperial Guard. And Cadia's defense is led by Creeeeed.

What's the source of that quote, though? It may make a very important difference whether that's from a GW book or just some novel.

OnTopic: It's true that the Astartes prefer recruiting feral worlders - I remember having read that in their Codex, and it makes sense due to a greater level of aggression and better constitution in its population. I would assume that Chapters deviating from this general rule only do so because they don't have access to sufficiently populated feral worlds in their domain, or that they do it because civilized recruits better fit their Chapter's style/culture (and/or because it simply was the Primarch's homeworld, i.e. where he lived until being rediscovered).

Cadia has nothing to give the Astartes - the discipline of their troops is a matter of training. On that basis, perhaps it would be better to convert OP's idea into one of those Chapters simply stationed in the area, but drawing recruits from a different world?

As far as I know, nobody said that the Sector doesn't include any feral worlds either.

Because Cadians are too badass to be Space Marines?

Certain Chapters "deviate" because they have a population with as much clout as a feral tribesmen. The people of Ultramar and Rynn's World are such examples. Beneficial traits are basically bred into the population, part of the culture. Cadia, by those terms, would be ideal for recruitment, but there are several other factors that prevent this.

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:That doesn't "make them PDF" in the general sense. This isn't really complex to understand. [...] Interior Guard are not PDF, except in the sense that they defend the planet.

That's not what his quote says, though. You seem to be quite fond of accusing people of a lower intelligence (third time I'm reading a thread with you using that sentence), and you should really work on that attitude - especially when you're starting to contradict yourself instead of simply admitting you might've been wrong.

And you seem to be fond of making baseless accusations and trying to stir the pot up.

For the record: Every planet has its own name for its PDF. "Interior Guard" simply seems to be the one applied to Cadia's. Every planet's PDF also has a different degree of quality (depending solely on how the local government runs it and what tech-level they have), and Cadia's PDF would without doubt be better trained and equipped than average. The same would likely apply to the Catachan or Mordian PDF, though. Or any other regiment that has been described as having a special trait in the IG Codex.

And "for the record", the Eye of Terror campaign book backs my claim and is where the Interior Guard was introduced.

Eye of Terror Codex, page 38 wrote:
A Note on the Internal Guard.
The internal guard is Cadia's defence against Chaos cultist activity. It consists of Inquisitors of the Ordo Malleus permanently seconded to the Cadian military. Cadia's proximity to the Eye of Terror makes it particularly susceptible to corruption by the power of Chaos.

Like any other Imperial Guard army, a Cadian army can select allied Daemonhunter units, in the case of the Cadians though these can be used to represent the Cadian Internal Guard. All Codex: Daemonhunter limitations apply. The Cadians get no special advantages when selecting allies from the Codex: Daemonhunter list, but it is mentioned here to inform players of a less well-known part of the Cadian military establishment that has considerable gaming potential. Naturally if an Inquisitor's retinue includes any veteran guardsmen it would be entirely appropriate to represent them with Kasrkin models.

An important thing to consider would be, however, that the Cadian PDF would effectively be a permanent part of the IG hierarchy, as is the case in every war zone where PDF are operating alongside the Imperial Guard. And Cadia's defense is led by Creeeeed.

'An important thing to consider' would once again be that the Cadian PDF does not exist in the form you think it does. The "Cadian PDF", the Interior Guard, is drawn up from the Cadian Youth Armies or from survivors of regiments that have been by and large decimated. They do this as a way of ensuring a quality of training, and ensuring that there are permanently troops on the planet for when they're needed.
That last part is from a novel, so of course you won't trust it but I don't really give a flying crap because you seem to be under the impression that everything isn't canon unless it's touched by the hands of some GW editor(even though they are known to be the ones who've fethed the canon up more than anyone short of C.S. Goto).

What's the source of that quote, though? It may make a very important difference whether that's from a GW book or just some novel.

Which quote? There's like three in existence about the Cadian Interior Guard, and two of them support my claim rather than what that copypaste goon Cruddace screwed up when he capitalized three letters and bred a new level of ridiculousness for people to try to cite as evidence of it.

As far as I know, nobody said that the Sector doesn't include any feral worlds either.

It doesn't. There's only one world that isn't devoted to the war effort, and that's a penal world.

I agree with Lynata, Kanluwen, you seem to have abit of an attitude problem...

I am shocked that the person whose idea I shot down is agreeing with the goon who goes around disagreeing with my posts because s/he feels that Fantasy Flight Games' material, despite working hand in hand with GW, isn't "canon" because Dark Heresy(which was written and produced by GW itself) doesn't meet his/her understanding of canon.

Just marvelously shocked!

Great way to disprove your attitude problems, sarcasm and name calling...

Kanluwen wrote:I am shocked that the person whose idea I shot down is agreeing with the goon who goes around disagreeing with my posts because s/he feels that Fantasy Flight Games' material, despite working hand in hand with GW, isn't "canon" because Dark Heresy(which was written and produced by GW itself) doesn't meet his/her understanding of canon.

Dark Heresy was produced by Black Industries. Saying it was "written and produced by GW" is equal to claiming the same for Goto's books.

And just because YOU don't like it doesn't make something canon or non-canon because this is not YOUR setting.

The EoT quote confuses me, though, as it described the "Internal Guard" like some small inquisitorial anti-terror unit. Is this a retcon or a different formation?

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I am shocked that the person whose idea I shot down is agreeing with the goon who goes around disagreeing with my posts because s/he feels that Fantasy Flight Games' material, despite working hand in hand with GW, isn't "canon" because Dark Heresy(which was written and produced by GW itself) doesn't meet his/her understanding of canon.

Dark Heresy was produced by Black Industries. Saying it was "written and produced by GW" is equal to claiming the same for Goto's books.

Black Industries was part of Black Library, which is part of GW.

And just because YOU don't like it doesn't make something canon or non-canon because this is not YOUR setting.

You're right. You're absolutely right. Which is why I don't say something is or isn't. I say I consider it to be canon or non-canon because it fits MY vision of 40k and I also say that things should be considered more heavily if they fit better with the mainstream canon of 40k.

The EoT quote confuses me, though, as it described the "Internal Guard" like some small inquisitorial anti-terror unit. Is this a retcon or a different formation?

Formation within a formation. The Internal Guard is part of the Interior Guard, which is on page 5. The Internal Guard featured a bit more in Inquisitor's part for the Eye of Terror than it did for 40k proper.
"One soldier in every ten is recruited into the Interior Guard, regardless of ability or achievements, and as a result some of the most able soldiers spend their entire military service on Cadia and the soldiers of the Cadian Planetary Defence Force are amongst the most effective and skilled fighting men in the Imperium."

So once again. Cadian 'PDF'=Interior Guard, with the Internal Guard being an 'elite' formation within the Interior Guard.

Kanluwen wrote:Black Industries was part of Black Library, which is part of GW.

Subsidiary, not exactly a part.

And if Black Industries was part of Black Library, the very same statements that made BL books non-canon also apply to BI books.

Bold text doesn't lend more credence to your arguments, by the way.

Kanluwen wrote:"One soldier in every ten is recruited into the Interior Guard, regardless of ability or achievements, and as a result some of the most able soldiers spend their entire military service on Cadia and the soldiers of the Cadian Planetary Defence Force are amongst the most effective and skilled fighting men in the Imperium."

I see - does that mean that the Interior Guard is smaller than the Cadian IG Regiments?

Let's all calm down and carry on the discussion respectfully.

As to canon, the FFG rulesets are written in close connection with GW and by (among others) both current and former GW writers. It's not only Dark Heresy, which was produced by GW itself to the same extent that one might say that GW produces BL books, that enjoys canonical status. Rogue Trader and Deathwatch are both just as canonical as anything else published by Citadel or Black Library or, for that matter, any other organization (such as THQ) that licenses GW's 40k property.

Whether or not one acknowledges these sources as canon is a personal matter. Maybe in your personal version of 40k they are not canon. But they do constitute canon -- i.e., the events described "happened" and could possibly have effects on other parts of the 40k world -- in the wider sense of the 40k setting.

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Black Industries was part of Black Library, which is part of GW.

Subsidiary, not exactly a part.

And if Black Industries was part of Black Library, the very same statements that made BL books non-canon also apply to BI books.

Bold text doesn't lend more credence to your arguments, by the way.

Consider yourself lucky I didn't bust out the Italics.

Kanluwen wrote:"One soldier in every ten is recruited into the Interior Guard, regardless of ability or achievements, and as a result some of the most able soldiers spend their entire military service on Cadia and the soldiers of the Cadian Planetary Defence Force are amongst the most effective and skilled fighting men in the Imperium."

I see - does that mean that the Interior Guard is smaller than the Cadian IG Regiments?

Putting it bluntly: we don't get numbers on the Interior Guard.

It all boils down to this,

Space Marines don't recruit from Cadia because they need everyone for the war effort.


It is also in constant danger of falling to Chaos forces. a chapter who's recruiting grounds are in danger of falling would be in a dangerous position. Far better to have a Feral world deeper into the Galaxy be your source of initiates then one in danger of being lost/tainted by chaos.


In the end, it is your army and you can do what you want. Just be aware that many people won't like it. Its like someone making a Chaos warband made out of the Ultramarines who turned traitor. With Chaos Lord Calgar at their head no less.

Hang on, Cadia actually does have a Planetary Defence Force?

What the hell have you been arguing this past page, Kanluwen?

Emperors Faithful wrote:Hang on, Cadia actually does have a Planetary Defence Force?

What the hell have you been arguing this past page, Kanluwen?

...Is this a serious statement or are you just trying to start some more shenanigans?

Kanluwen wrote:"One soldier in every ten is recruited into the Interior Guard, regardless of ability or achievements, and as a result some of the most able soldiers spend their entire military service on Cadia and the soldiers of the Cadian Planetary Defence Force are amongst the most effective and skilled fighting men in the Imperium."

The 'Interior Guard' is Cadia's Planetary Defence Force.
The 'Interior Guard' is drawn from Cadia's Shock Troop Regiments("One soldier in every ten is recruited into the Interior Guard").
The 'Interior Guard' has one role and one role only--defending Cadia. Ergo, they are Cadia's Planetary Defence Force.

Yes. Which goes completely against what you were saying earlier.

That the 'Interior Guard' is not a PDF perse.
That the 'Interior Guard' is made up of regiments that are posted there for a time.
That the 'Interior Guard' is subject to change as regiments are rotated out and in.

It really is a hilarious backpedal on your behalf.

I think what Kan is trying to say is that the Cadian "PDF" isn't recruited in the normal way.



a normal PDF is recruited from the planets population into a couple of regiments whose only purpose is to defend the planet. as such, a PDF is normally trained to a lesser standard then a IG regiment.

Cadia's "PDF" is drawn from not the general populace, but from the population who make it into the Shock Troops. 10% of the Shock Troops become Interior Guard who are permantly stationed on Cadia itself. the Cadian Interior Guard are actual IG, Cadians no less, but have the same purpose as a PDF.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Yes. Which goes completely against what you were saying earlier.

That the 'Interior Guard' is not a PDF perse.
That the 'Interior Guard' is made up of regiments that are posted there for a time.
That the 'Interior Guard' is subject to change as regiments are rotated out and in.

It really is a hilarious backpedal on your behalf.

I don't do that often, but you've just actually made me do that. Congrats.

The Interior Guard is not the same as a "PDF" on any other world. "PDF", capitalized, is considered a specific kind of formation--i.e. similar to a 'modern' military in terms of equipment, motivation, training, et al.

The Interior Guard is none of those. The Interior Guard is "One soldier in every ten is recruited into the Interior Guard, regardless of ability or achievements, and as a result some of the most able soldiers spend their entire military service on Cadia and the soldiers of the Cadian Planetary Defence Force are amongst the most effective and skilled fighting men in the Imperium."

Tthe fact that it says "One soldier in every ten" and not "One citizen in every ten" alone makes it clear that they recruit from amongst the Cadian Shock Troops.

Sorry for skipping alot of the thread but it seems to be mostly missing the point.

The IoM do not found chapter's on worlds such as Cadia.

Space Marine chapters are for the most part independant organisations, they control the planet they are on. So founding a chapter on a pre-great crusade hive/forge/bastion world won't happen (unless a primarch landed on it) due to the fact that the admin./mars control those planets.

It is however perfectly ok fluff wise to have a chapter getting some recruits from Cadia, as part of an 'honour pact' due to some action of a chapter in Cadia's protection. But in general the admin. re to busy raising armys to give their best and brightest away.

<broadcast mode active: y'all need to calm down, stop sniping at each other, and get back on topic>

<text redacted; I said on-topic --Janthkin>

Sorry about my grammar and stuff, I'm from the north if that's any exscuse

1st not all Mercs do it just for the money, and don't always go it alone.
And I started with ' could do the same' as I did write abit about an ex SAS major buying a hind and starting his own army. But realised I shouldn't.

I brought up Deathwatch as and example, maybe not a good one but I don't see why there would be no possibility of cadian marines? Maybe not needed by the Guard but surely wouldn't be turned away if they offerd there alegence to cadia?

Sorry to all the IG players for the little joke about there job to be sacrificed, maybe abit much.
But it is Deffinitly a tactic I would consider with any high troop count armies, as sacrafice for the greater good is death with honour
although IG are brave they are abit squishy no?

If marine do go renagade and start fighting for their own personal gain, they usually become Warlords themselves. Marines don't like taking orders from anyone except from another space marine of higher rank.

Space marines often set up their own little petty empires when they go Renagade. The Fallen in particular do this alot.

Kanluwen wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:Yes. Which goes completely against what you were saying earlier.

That the 'Interior Guard' is not a PDF perse.
That the 'Interior Guard' is made up of regiments that are posted there for a time.
That the 'Interior Guard' is subject to change as regiments are rotated out and in.
It really is a hilarious backpedal on your behalf.

I don't do that often, but you've just actually made me do that. Congrats.

The Interior Guard is not the same as a "PDF" on any other world. "PDF", capitalized, is considered a specific kind of formation--i.e. similar to a 'modern' military in terms of equipment, motivation, training, et al.

The Interior Guard is none of those. The Interior Guard is "One soldier in every ten is recruited into the Interior Guard, regardless of ability or achievements, and as a result some of the most able soldiers spend their entire military service on Cadia and the soldiers of the Cadian Planetary Defence Force are amongst the most effective and skilled fighting men in the Imperium."

Tthe fact that it says "One soldier in every ten" and not "One citizen in every ten" alone makes it clear that they recruit from amongst the Cadian Shock Troops.

Kanny, just admit that you've changed your stance and we can all get along here.

Back to OP, I don't think your idea will be popular at all. It's been demonstrated that Space Marine chapters don't recruit from Cadia, and that founding a Chapter on Cadia would take up a lot of time and resources which can't be spared.

That said, it is your army. Just remember that people may get annoyed at a force with that kind of background.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:Yes. Which goes completely against what you were saying earlier.

That the 'Interior Guard' is not a PDF perse.
That the 'Interior Guard' is made up of regiments that are posted there for a time.
That the 'Interior Guard' is subject to change as regiments are rotated out and in.
It really is a hilarious backpedal on your behalf.

I don't do that often, but you've just actually made me do that. Congrats.

The Interior Guard is not the same as a "PDF" on any other world. "PDF", capitalized, is considered a specific kind of formation--i.e. similar to a 'modern' military in terms of equipment, motivation, training, et al.

The Interior Guard is none of those. The Interior Guard is "One soldier in every ten is recruited into the Interior Guard, regardless of ability or achievements, and as a result some of the most able soldiers spend their entire military service on Cadia and the soldiers of the Cadian Planetary Defence Force are amongst the most effective and skilled fighting men in the Imperium."

Tthe fact that it says "One soldier in every ten" and not "One citizen in every ten" alone makes it clear that they recruit from amongst the Cadian Shock Troops.

Kanny, just admit that you've changed your stance and we can all get along here.

I think you need to go back and reread the first page, but this time actually read.

Me, on Page One. wrote:Cadian "PDF" does not exist. They have what is called the "Interior Guard", which are Cadian Shock regiments rotated in and out to stand watch over the homeworld. The exact number of regiments on Cadia isn't mentioned.

Lappie wrote:I know they are called the interior guard, I said PDF to simplify things incase not everyone knew. From what I read they do function as a PDF and the best are selected to be shock troops, never heard of it being a rotational thing since when you go off somewhere on crusade or to fight some other campaign there's little chance you'll end up coming home again.

Me, again, on Page One in reply to Lappie wrote:"The best" of Cadians aren't selected to be Shock Troops. Every Cadian soldier is a Shock Troop. "The best" are selected to be Kasrkin.

Like I have to keep saying though: Don't say PDF when referring to the Interior Guard. The acronym PDF refers to a specific form of Imperial military organization. They are, by and large, a mix of professional and volunteer soldiers trained to a bare minimum when compared with the Imperial Guard(and a laughable standard when compared with professional soldiery like the Cadians) and have been equipped to deal with small raiding parties, insurgents, and cells of heretics.
The Interior Guard is full-on Imperial Guard regiments, through and through, armed and equipped like any force leading an assault on an enemy held world.

Me, AGAIN, on Page One in reply to Lappie wrote:Because they are Cadia's planetary defense force.

That doesn't "make them PDF" in the general sense. This isn't really complex to understand.
You tried using the term interchangeably. It's not. Interior Guard are not PDF, except in the sense that they defend the planet. They are equipped, as standard, for the Imperial Guard.

Nothing I posted actually refutes my point of them being "made up of regiments that are posted there for a time". Nothing I posted actually refutes my point of them "being subject to change as regiments are rotated out and in".

If you want to get one over on me, you're going to have to wake up a heck of a lot earlier and hope I'm sick or drunk.

I think we could get you drunk...

At no point did I ever mention that the Interior were exactly the same as all other PDF, that would be slowed. I was simply saying they are used as the PDF. Kan seems to have got all frustratted for no real reason over this.


Saying any 2 PDF are exactly the same would be really stupid becuase they arn't.

I do now realise that founding a chapter on cadia may be a little extreme but it's the IoM... they've done worse before, moving moons, exterminatus, need I go on.

Kanluwen wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:Yes. Which goes completely against what you were saying earlier.

That the 'Interior Guard' is not a PDF perse.
That the 'Interior Guard' is made up of regiments that are posted there for a time.
That the 'Interior Guard' is subject to change as regiments are rotated out and in.
It really is a hilarious backpedal on your behalf.

I don't do that often, but you've just actually made me do that. Congrats.

The Interior Guard is not the same as a "PDF" on any other world. "PDF", capitalized, is considered a specific kind of formation--i.e. similar to a 'modern' military in terms of equipment, motivation, training, et al.

The Interior Guard is none of those. The Interior Guard is "One soldier in every ten is recruited into the Interior Guard, regardless of ability or achievements, and as a result some of the most able soldiers spend their entire military service on Cadia and the soldiers of the Cadian Planetary Defence Force are amongst the most effective and skilled fighting men in the Imperium."

Tthe fact that it says "One soldier in every ten" and not "One citizen in every ten" alone makes it clear that they recruit from amongst the Cadian Shock Troops.

Kanny, just admit that you've changed your stance and we can all get along here.

I think you need to go back and reread the first page, but this time actually read.

Me, on Page One. wrote:Cadian "PDF" does not exist. They have what is called the "Interior Guard", which are Cadian Shock regiments rotated in and out to stand watch over the homeworld. The exact number of regiments on Cadia isn't mentioned.

Lappie wrote:I know they are called the interior guard, I said PDF to simplify things incase not everyone knew. From what I read they do function as a PDF and the best are selected to be shock troops, never heard of it being a rotational thing since when you go off somewhere on crusade or to fight some other campaign there's little chance you'll end up coming home again.

Me, again, on Page One in reply to Lappie wrote:"The best" of Cadians aren't selected to be Shock Troops. Every Cadian soldier is a Shock Troop. "The best" are selected to be Kasrkin.

Like I have to keep saying though: Don't say PDF when referring to the Interior Guard. The acronym PDF refers to a specific form of Imperial military organization. They are, by and large, a mix of professional and volunteer soldiers trained to a bare minimum when compared with the Imperial Guard(and a laughable standard when compared with professional soldiery like the Cadians) and have been equipped to deal with small raiding parties, insurgents, and cells of heretics.
The Interior Guard is full-on Imperial Guard regiments, through and through, armed and equipped like any force leading an assault on an enemy held world.

Me, AGAIN, on Page One in reply to Lappie wrote:Because they are Cadia's planetary defense force.

That doesn't "make them PDF" in the general sense. This isn't really complex to understand.
You tried using the term interchangeably. It's not. Interior Guard are not PDF, except in the sense that they defend the planet. They are equipped, as standard, for the Imperial Guard.

Nothing I posted actually refutes my point of them being "made up of regiments that are posted there for a time". Nothing I posted actually refutes my point of them "being subject to change as regiments are rotated out and in".

If you want to get one over on me, you're going to have to wake up a heck of a lot earlier and hope I'm sick or drunk.

Firstly, you claimed that the PDF (as you would call it) was made up of regiments that are posted there for a time. Your later quote refutes this and states that they are there for life.

Secondly, you claimed that the regiments are rotated in and out regularily. You later quote, again, refutes this and states that they are there for life, and while they may be every bit as competent as any Cadian off-world regiment, they never leave the planet.

Thirdly, I second the motion to get you drunk. But only if you're a huggy-type drunk, not one of those mean fellows.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

"One soldier in every ten is recruited into the Interior Guard, regardless of ability or achievements, and as a result some of the most able soldiers spend their entire military service on Cadia and the soldiers of the Cadian Planetary Defence Force are amongst the most effective and skilled fighting men in the Imperium."

Lappie wrote:At no point did I ever mention that the Interior were exactly the same as all other PDF, that would be slowed. I was simply saying they are used as the PDF. Kan seems to have got all frustrated for no real reason over this.

Saying any 2 PDF are exactly the same would be really stupid becuase they arn't.

And yet you got all huffy about 'generalizing'.
The Interior Guard is not a PDF. That's the point that you and Emperor's Faithful aren't comprehending, no matter how simply I've explained it.

They are not. They are recruited from within the Imperial Guard regiments that Cadia provides. That's why it says "One soldier in every ten" and not "One citizen in every ten".

So if the Interior Guard is recruited from among the Cadian soldiery that means that the Interior Guard, which is a planetary defense force(notice the lack of capitalization. We went over this already, a planetary defense force can be that...but it doesn't necessarily have to be a PDF, which again we already covered.), is an Imperial Guard formation.

Ergo, I win!

Charlie Sheen...