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Kilkrazy wrote:I have a feeling desktop 3D printers will never be as widespread and cheap as people currently imagine.

It's obviously fantastic for prototyping new designs of small items or scaled down models. It's not a technology with much application in people's daily lives, though, either at home or in the office or most workshops.

I agree with you on one level, how are they going to market 3D printers to the consumer? If it is marketed and priced right and there is a demand for it, they will most definitely take off, become super cheap and so forth. There have been a lot of technologies that people said, oh that will never make it, and they have become standards. At the same time there have been many technologies that never made it out of prototype (like XED TVs? I was excited for those) and some technologies that do make it into the consumer market and fail miserably, ie Sony mini disk, beta max, etc.

I think it all depends on how they are marketed, and if the demand is up then you will see a price drop and mass production.


As for war gaming, I dunno if we are in a golden age. GW has been a constant since I started (back around 90-91) and over the years they put out some really awesome games like Necromunda and Gorka Morka, but they discontinued them. They have totally ruined some armies and rules and totally fixed their mistakes as well. Then Storms of Magic comes out and it seems like Herohammer all over again....don't think I am gonna get into that.

My friends and I got back into war gaming after a 15 year break just like 8 months ago. The first thing I wanted to do was bust out the Necromunda gang..but the game no longer exists and the rule sets are so different I would have to convert the rules and I was sort of doing that in my spare time. Haven't finished them up yet, but it is basically 5th edition core rules, with Necromunda leveling system.

Having played many game systems I think I really want to create my own. I really like action point based gaming systems instead of phase based. I was writing up my own rule set but never finished, one of these days I need to and see what you guys think.

The models definitely are looking a lot better than they were before. That is true I think. My original land raider is basically a box on treads compared to the new one.

The main reason I got back into war gaming is because it was a hobby that would keep me out of the bars, did not require technology (no sitting in front of a computer screen, do that enough already at work), requires creativity and thinking, and I love strategy. Also, all of my armies and models from 2nd edition 40K and 4th Fantasy still worked. No need to upgrade them at all. I did have to add some new units and some more core, but that is it. In the past 8 months this is what I learned about GW: 1) They still need to fire their freaking editors, their books are convoluted and out of order. Put all the vehicle rules in the proper section, don't scatter them about, and 2) they still write broken rule sets for certain things.

I also learned that there is this game called Infinity, which I am really wanting to play. I just gotta convince the friends who war game with us to get on board. I'd also like to try flames of War and maybe warmachines and hordes, but inifinity really looks appealing because it uses an order system, which reminds me of the action point system I loved so much.

No, Killkrazy is pretty much right. The current 3d printing technology is not intended to be used the way a home printer is. It's meant for one offs and prototyping purposes, not for actual production. It has nothing to do with how its marketed, its how the damn things are engineered. Demand btw IS up. A lot of printer manufacturers are having trouble meeting the demand from industry, etc. Really there is no realistic way that the current designs for printer will find its way into the average american home. The applications are too limited for most people to get actual use out of (no, I'm sorry, 'but you can print all kinds of stuff' is not a valid reason, considering all but the highest end 6 figure cost printers will require post processing in order for you to get a clean usable print, and even then the materials used in printers are not meant to stand up to wear and tear of regular use), and they require constant support from people who actually know how to use the machines to keep them properly calibrated etc.

chaos0xomega wrote:No, Killkrazy is pretty much right. The current 3d printing technology is not intended to be used the way a home printer is. It's meant for one offs and prototyping purposes, not for actual production. It has nothing to do with how its marketed, its how the damn things are engineered. Demand btw IS up. A lot of printer manufacturers are having trouble meeting the demand from industry, etc. Really there is no realistic way that the current designs for printer will find its way into the average american home. The applications are too limited for most people to get actual use out of (no, I'm sorry, 'but you can print all kinds of stuff' is not a valid reason, considering all but the highest end 6 figure cost printers will require post processing in order for you to get a clean usable print, and even then the materials used in printers are not meant to stand up to wear and tear of regular use), and they require constant support from people who actually know how to use the machines to keep them properly calibrated etc.

The same thing was said about lots of technologies that ended up being marketed to consumers. Remember the head of HP and IBM laughed at Apple when they wanted to make a home computer. They said, who wants a computer in their home? I agree with KillKrazy that it is a long shot, but it is possible and yes application does factor. How would a consumer use this? People once said server based OSes will never have a place in a home, and now they make media center OSes based on server OS technology.

I am not disagreeing with you, just pointing out you cannot always predict what is going to happen in the consumer market. With 3D printers getting so cheap, it may create a whole hobby culture of people that design all sorts of things as their hobby, and that is where it may get a niche.

marielle wrote:

That's true. The cost of the higher production values has been higher cost, of course.

I look at my DBA rulebook containing the whole system plus all the army lists, which cost £3 and fits into about 36 pages of A5. I compare it with Kampfgruppe Normandie which contains only the rules and lists for the Normandy Campaign, costs £48 and is an inch thick A4 hardback.

As an old timer I'm not sure all the new books need to be quite so large, heavily illustrated and expensive.

Indeed but comparing DBA with Kampgruppe Normandie is just exposing your GW prejudice.

Had you compared it to Fields of Glory or Hail Ceasar you could have made the exact same point, with more relevance.

FoG (which I have) can be got from Amazon for £16 (hardback, colour) and the army books are £9 to £12 each. You can buy all the army books or just the ones for the periods that you want. I have three army books. So for about the same price as Kampfgruppe Normandie, covering a single campaign, I have three different periods covering a number of campaigns which accomodate several of my Ancients armies (Early Imperial Roman, Wars of the Roses, and Old Kingdom Egyptian). I don't need to carry all the books all the time. I can buy more army books as and when the ones I need come out. For example, I don't yet have the book that covers my Incas and Aztecs.

I'm not interested in Hail Caesar as I already have DBA, DBM, WRG 6th and 7th, Warrior, FoG, DBMM, Strategos and Shock of Impact.

FoG (which I have) can be got from Amazon for £16 (hardback, colour) and the army books are £9 to £12 each. You can buy all the army books or just the ones for the periods that you want. I have three army books. So for about the same price as Kampfgruppe Normandie, covering a single campaign, I have three different periods covering a number of campaigns which accomodate several of my Ancients armies (Early Imperial Roman, Wars of the Roses, and Old Kingdom Egyptian). I don't need to carry all the books all the time. I can buy more army books as and when the ones I need come out. For example, I don't yet have the book that covers my Incas and Aztecs.

I'm not interested in Hail Caesar as I already have DBA, DBM, WRG 6th and 7th, Warrior, FoG, DBMM, Strategos and Shock of Impact.

Indeed, but the point remains - and I well recall people complaining about price of FoG when it was released.

Personally I am jolly pleased to see that Navwar are still selling General Quarters for £4.50, instead of £30 for the new glossy incarnation.