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chaos0xomega wrote:

ph34r wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:What I don't understand is why GW took the course of action they did. Wouldn't it make more sense for them to drop the AUS retail prices then it would to ban exports? They are really only hurting themselves by instituting such a restrictive policy.

Dropping AUS prices to "match" the rest of the world based on exchange rates and not based at all on costs of upkeep in Australia would result in every GW store in Australia going out of business. This is why wargamers are not economists.

I don't know the details on cost of living, etc. in AUS, but I can't imagine the costs could be so high to warrant a price that is twice of high.

Costs in Australia are all high. Prices in line with the costs of rent in Australia are necessary for a GW store to stay open.

People hate this because they think that they are getting charged more than other countries unfairly. And while it is true, that based on exchange rates Australian warhammer does cost more, it is also true that based on exchange rates everything in Australia costs more, and people are paid "more" to match.


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insaniak wrote:

ph34r wrote:Dropping AUS prices to "match" the rest of the world based on exchange rates and not based at all on costs of upkeep in Australia would result in every GW store in Australia going out of business. This is why wargamers are not economists.

What it would mean is that GW make less profit per item. Whether or not that would mean them going out of business would depend entirely on whether or not dropping the price resulted in more sales.

If the number of sales stayed the same, then yes, reducing profit means they do worse. But if reducing their prices encouraged more people to buy more, the end result is more profit.

There's a business ideal held by many companies that what you should be aiming for is the highest possible profit for the least amount of work. That's the balance that GW have always aimed for... but (IMO) they've tipped the scales too far in Oz. At some point, you have to acknowledge that you can't just keep raising the prices and expecting people to still spend the same amount of money for less and less product.

It's not a straight one-for-one deal. Once you reach the point where your prices are perceived as being too high, people stop spending altogether. Reduce your prices to a point that those people think is reasonable, and they come back.

The fact that people stop spending when they perceive prices as being too high is true, but whether or not people are justified in their logic of deciding that prices are overly high, is definitely in question.

Prices in Australia have been raised a large amount, but then again so have prices for other regions.

GW could cut their Australian presence altogether and possibly save money, even just give Australia the same price as the UK, giving Australia a massive discount compared to other regions, but GW wants to keep their Australian stores open.


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chaos0xomega wrote:I don't know the details on cost of living, etc. in AUS, but I can't imagine the costs could be so high to warrant a price that is twice of high.

It is much higher than the US pretty much across the board. The US is notoriously good at having a low cost of living.

ph34r wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:What I don't understand is why GW took the course of action they did. Wouldn't it make more sense for them to drop the AUS retail prices then it would to ban exports? They are really only hurting themselves by instituting such a restrictive policy.

Dropping AUS prices to "match" the rest of the world based on exchange rates and not based at all on costs of upkeep in Australia would result in every GW store in Australia going out of business. This is why wargamers are not economists.

Based solely on sq/ft charges for stores in New York city vs. stores that would be in Sydney Aus. costs are typically lower per sq/ft. Of course labour costs are not factored here; but it leaves me to wonder ((specially since if I was so bored one night and ACTUALLY had no work to do to put the business degree to use)) if I spent the time to math out the total costs if the realities of Australia IS that GW see's a market that it can dominate and charge what it wants with out worry of loss of business. It might very well be true that they're gouging like mad there for the simple reason that Aus. may have low penetration by miniature gaming companies.

Regardless; market trends of every other company in the general wants vs needs; "wants" products typically go down when the economy drops; just look at TV's and how you can get them for almost nothing now. But "needs" products always go up because people spend their last pennies on bread and milk. GW has not stopped increasing its prices not only according to inflation, but greatly against the economy. You look at many countries in the EU falling apart, and even the UK with its struggles. I often wonder how much of GW's income is based on social assistance; as I know of at least two persons that frequent my local FLGS that rely mostly on SA payments but also spend large sums of money at GW.

Dracheous wrote:Based solely on sq/ft charges for stores in New York city vs. stores that would be in Sydney Aus. costs are typically lower per sq/ft. Of course labour costs are not factored here; but it leaves me to wonder ((specially since if I was so bored one night and ACTUALLY had no work to do to put the business degree to use)) if I spent the time to math out the total costs if the realities of Australia IS that GW see's a market that it can dominate and charge what it wants with out worry of loss of business. It might very well be true that they're gouging like mad there for the simple reason that Aus. may have low penetration by miniature gaming companies.

Regardless; market trends of every other company in the general wants vs needs; "wants" products typically go down when the economy drops; just look at TV's and how you can get them for almost nothing now. But "needs" products always go up because people spend their last pennies on bread and milk. GW has not stopped increasing its prices not only according to inflation, but greatly against the economy. You look at many countries in the EU falling apart, and even the UK with its struggles. I often wonder how much of GW's income is based on social assistance; as I know of at least two persons that frequent my local FLGS that rely mostly on SA payments but also spend large sums of money at GW.

NYC is an expensive place to run a business. I know housing in Australia is on average, based on the statistics I have looked into, more than double of the cost of housing in the US. Now I haven't looked into the exact square footage and locations of GW stores, but it stands to reason that the cost of business rent would follow that trend at least in part.

I think that if GW did a minor price drop, or even temporary sale, they would regain many customers and likely profit. This would likely apply to all regions, not only Australia.

I think that if GW did a minor price drop, or even temporary sale, they would regain many customers and likely profit. This would likely apply to all regions, not only Australia.

I'll agree with you there. I would say that if they didn't increase prices this year, I likely would not have quit. If they decreased prices instead, I may have even been happy with GW, instead of merely "not furious".

Heck, even now if they rolled the price increase back, I might very seriously consider playing again. Of course, that might not be enough for me if I was an Aussie, but I can't really say for sure.

ph34r wrote:I think that if GW did a minor price drop, or even temporary sale, they would regain many customers and likely profit. This would likely apply to all regions, not only Australia.

Sadly it would take a very extreme sale to gain back the kind of member loyalty that GW has tried its hardest to get rid of. Dakkanauts for years have pointed out how box sizes have halved while price has doubled. Even something relatively huge like a 20% off sale is nothing considering many of us get that or slightly better discounts on a daily purchasing basis via local store or internet store discount. It would probably take GW slashing prices in half long enough for people to build up proper sized armies for people to come back in droves like they want them, but I doubt they'd literally double sales the world over just to match the figures that are already down.

ph34r wrote:Costs in Australia are all high. Prices in line with the costs of rent in Australia are necessary for a GW store to stay open.

People hate this because they think that they are getting charged more than other countries unfairly. And while it is true, that based on exchange rates Australian warhammer does cost more, it is also true that based on exchange rates everything in Australia costs more, and people are paid "more" to match.

The thing is, in many cases things in Australia are priced higher simply because they were priced higher back when the exchange rate was garbage, and so there was no real choice.. and now stores think they can get away with continuing to do so. We import pretty much everything except basic food, and right now a lot of businesses are cashing in on the exchange rate... and consumers are getting progressively more fed up with it.

So GW doing it 'because everyone else does' doesn't justify it. If everyone else keeps doing it, more and more consumers are going to be buying from overseas.

Wayland seems to have put ROW plans aside, disappointingly. Maybe GW pressured them into stepping back in line.

I am shafted by GW. I hate them, but love their products (mostly). In my opinion, they are still well beyond their closest competition in terms of aesthetics, quality (finecast, shudder), and support. I did I just write that that?!

I had not paid full retail for a decade. Now, I live in Japan and GW have made it so hard for me to get product through other means that I have to seriously consider paying full retail. I mean, I make lots of money and I really enjoy the products. Vengeance seems like a waste of my energy.

I don't really know what to do. When the Tau update comes out, I may need to trip to England!

Guys (not from OZ), you just don't get it...

Australia is traditionally an island economically as well, where we have tended to buy locally - the government even promotes and rewards "Aussie made".

Forge World sells to the world at GBP prices no matter where you live (remember that FW is GW)... no regions, no selected areas, and free delivery anywhere (if sale is over 250GBP of course)

Talking and debating the economy of scale with comparing rents and such, is a waste of breath... because it is just a case of GW marketing just like every one else does... just with arrogant attitude.

Indies, FLGS, even angry LGS, sell at discounts because thats what shops tying to make sales do... however, GW decided that they could rip off entire regions by setting up operations in that country and NOT giving discounts, and obtaining their stock from UK manufacturing and not from AUGW wholesale, thus making 4, 5, 10 times the normal profit... why on earth would they stop doing that.

It's a joke that they describe themselves as manufactures and not retail... but their main profit appears to come from their own retail shops... and don't forget that the ROW can still buy from a N hemisphere online store - it's called GW online store... even bigger joke.

Again, if FW can do it... so can GW... but, when shareholders profit come before business survival, well, the end is nigh.

Mik

ph34r wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:What I don't understand is why GW took the course of action they did. Wouldn't it make more sense for them to drop the AUS retail prices then it would to ban exports? They are really only hurting themselves by instituting such a restrictive policy.

Dropping AUS prices to "match" the rest of the world based on exchange rates and not based at all on costs of upkeep in Australia would result in every GW store in Australia going out of business. This is why wargamers are not economists.

ph34r wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

ph34r wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:What I don't understand is why GW took the course of action they did. Wouldn't it make more sense for them to drop the AUS retail prices then it would to ban exports? They are really only hurting themselves by instituting such a restrictive policy.

Dropping AUS prices to "match" the rest of the world based on exchange rates and not based at all on costs of upkeep in Australia would result in every GW store in Australia going out of business. This is why wargamers are not economists.

I don't know the details on cost of living, etc. in AUS, but I can't imagine the costs could be so high to warrant a price that is twice of high.

Costs in Australia are all high. Prices in line with the costs of rent in Australia are necessary for a GW store to stay open.

People hate this because they think that they are getting charged more than other countries unfairly. And while it is true, that based on exchange rates Australian warhammer does cost more, it is also true that based on exchange rates everything in Australia costs more, and people are paid "more" to match.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

insaniak wrote:

ph34r wrote:Dropping AUS prices to "match" the rest of the world based on exchange rates and not based at all on costs of upkeep in Australia would result in every GW store in Australia going out of business. This is why wargamers are not economists.

What it would mean is that GW make less profit per item. Whether or not that would mean them going out of business would depend entirely on whether or not dropping the price resulted in more sales.

If the number of sales stayed the same, then yes, reducing profit means they do worse. But if reducing their prices encouraged more people to buy more, the end result is more profit.

There's a business ideal held by many companies that what you should be aiming for is the highest possible profit for the least amount of work. That's the balance that GW have always aimed for... but (IMO) they've tipped the scales too far in Oz. At some point, you have to acknowledge that you can't just keep raising the prices and expecting people to still spend the same amount of money for less and less product.

It's not a straight one-for-one deal. Once you reach the point where your prices are perceived as being too high, people stop spending altogether. Reduce your prices to a point that those people think is reasonable, and they come back.

The fact that people stop spending when they perceive prices as being too high is true, but whether or not people are justified in their logic of deciding that prices are overly high, is definitely in question.

Prices in Australia have been raised a large amount, but then again so have prices for other regions.

GW could cut their Australian presence altogether and possibly save money, even just give Australia the same price as the UK, giving Australia a massive discount compared to other regions, but GW wants to keep their Australian stores open.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chaos0xomega wrote:I don't know the details on cost of living, etc. in AUS, but I can't imagine the costs could be so high to warrant a price that is twice of high.

It is much higher than the US pretty much across the board. The US is notoriously good at having a low cost of living.

I would enjoy seeing your sources for many of your claims.

Given that GW set prices at 2007 exchange rates, much of your economics is out.

I also wouldnt trust the economic theory of someone with 13375P34K in their user handle

I've been playing since 1990 in Aus and AvatarForm is right the prices in Aus were set back based on the old exchange rate of 1AU buying about .70US or thereabouts. Since moving to the US at the start of the year, cost of living is relatively cheaper over here, however there are a multitude of differences etc that make it extremely hard to compare effectively, ie tax levels are higher in Aus, petrol costs more and we have further to drive for most things, good meat however is far cheaper in AU than America (ie grass fed cow, not the mass produced stuff).
All the angst in Au only really started when the prices started to no longer reflect the exchange rates any more. Battlefront were able to drop their prices in Au by 10% or thereabouts across the board about a year ago, which allowed LGS to compete with online retailers. If GW won't drop the price in AU to better reflect the exchange rate, wouldn't it be funny if they raised the prices around the globe to be inline with AUS? Although I think that would bankrupt them for sure. A good example:

Check out the thread below with the scanned page from white dward - Seriously, $33 for 3 finecast banner tops? WTF? They look cool and all that, but who in their right mind would pay that. Thats currently $34.46 US dollars on the exchange rate. Our economy is booming and all that, but that's ridiclious. What are they listed for sale in this months US white dwarf?
http://www.wargamerau.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=122123

Cheers

Wow...

Why is it that you never see any Kiwi's complaining?

chaos0xomega wrote:Wow...

Why is it that you never see any Kiwi's complaining?

Er... You do? There have been quite a few chime in throughout the various discussions since the embargo was put in place. Not as many as Australians, but the GW scene in NZ (and NZ itself, for that matter) is quite a bit smaller...

(There's a Kiwi on page one of this very thread.)

insaniak wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:Wow...

Why is it that you never see any Kiwi's complaining?

Er... You do? There have been quite a few chime in throughout the various discussions since the embargo was put in place. Not as many as Australians, but the GW scene in NZ (and NZ itself, for that matter) is quite a bit smaller...

(There's a Kiwi on page one of this very thread.)

Didn't even notice that the flags are so small (at least to me, I was scratching my head the other day because I thought a Chinese flag was a Soviet flag for a good 5 minutes). Point redacted.

We're here for sure and the prices here are as ridiculous as they are in Oz. On the plus side regarding the exchange rate, I've bought my first stuff from Forgeworld.
I wont be going back to the local GW shop because of the prices. I wonder how many parents go into a toy or hobby shop, see the prices and go no way, because it's cheaper to buy radio controlled models than get into GW.
If the stores are costing so much that the prices of the games and figures are being affected then there is a simple solution, close them.

It's not just GW though. We're hosting the Rugby World Cup this year and as you'd expect the local shops are stocking team merchandise including copies of the jersey worn by the national team. Online retailers are selling the jersey for half the price that the local shops are which is upsetting the a-holes that run the rugby union because they're not getting a cut from it. It's okay to offshore the making of the clothing but suddenly we have to be "patriotic" when it comes to buying the stuff?

Hmmm... maybe y'all should just become American states. You'll benefit for more favorable exchange rates and hopefully decreased cost of living, etc. and I'll benefit by having an easier time emigrating to awesome-land

So that whole thing with wayland gaming is'nt going to happen then?

Did anyone notice the Boss of Nintendo drastically cutting the price of the 3d console by a very big amount? Also more surprising was that he apologised to all the people who had bought it at the previous price plus gave them 20 free games. I don't think any financial/profit descions came into it; it was too expensive for people it wasn't selling and he came up with a great idea. Games Workshop are at the point where their prices are too high for more and more people. Sooner or later they will have to lure us back or they will disappear. It is nonsense to flat out say they cannot reduce the prices, their report states that they gave the shareholders surplus cash. To me that shows that there is leeway to restore sales. To hell with the shareholders.

Yah, to hell with people, who, you know, OWN THE COMPANY!

Happygrunt wrote:Yah, to hell with people, who, you know, OWN THE COMPANY!

From the comments made by some of them about us the fans, that's exactly what I'd say to them. They're there to make money obviously, but it seems they're treating us all like fools hooked on drugs who'll pay increasingly higher amounts to get our fix. This while many of us are in countries faced with recession.

cadbren wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:Yah, to hell with people, who, you know, OWN THE COMPANY!

From the comments made by some of them about us the fans, that's exactly what I'd say to them. They're there to make money obviously, but it seems they're treating us all like fools hooked on drugs who'll pay increasingly higher amounts to get our fix. This while many of us are in countries faced with recession.

The point was more on the futility of customers demanding that the company ignore their shareholders and instead do what they (the afore-mentioned customers) demand instead...