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Well, lets start with the range of models. If your putting out a new codex and it has some really new and cool unit, you had better have a model of that unit ready to go. NOT staged releases for later, but the entire line in stores and ready for sale.
That also includes variations. Like a Rifleman dreadnought. Perfectly legal and priced in the codex, but to build one your kitbashing a deadnought kit AND an Aegis Defense Line (or a bunch of IG heavy weapon teams)...which adds to the cost for the player (and remember, your targeting kids who have to try and explain to mom why he HAS to have the $50 kit AND the $25 so he can use half the parts from each...and he needs to build 3 of these!).
And lets not even get into the joy of trying to graft a Storm-Shield onto a metal/finecast Librarian-Termie with any hope of making a solid bond that doesn't snap from the not to gentle arena of the game-table.

Lack of Bitz Packs. I want to build an all melta Sternguard unit, so i need 10 combi-meltas. Well, the "official" Sternguard pack has 5 models of which 1 is a c-m. Or i can get 10 commander models to snip out the 1 part i need. Or i can spend some tedious time scratchbuilding c-m's from bolters (making your target audiences mom POed at you because her little boy just sliced his thumb off trying to chop up some bolters).
So come on, 15 or 20 bucks for a sprue that has 5 combi-meltas, 5 combi-plasmas, 5 combi-flamers, 1 heavy flamer, and a power weapon would be an instant big-seller.
And why do Dev-Squads come with 1 of each weapon weapon everyone ALWAYS makes Devastators a same-weapon unit (4 las, 4 plas, 4 missile, etc).

How about this (using the Space marine example):
sell standard marines 10 to a box for 25 dollars or so. They come with nothing but bolters, boltgun, and chainsword for the SGT. Any 'basic' kits sold should have the number of models that would logically fall into that units squad size. If the unit size in the codex is 10-20 models...you better make the kits contain either 10 or 20 models; not 5 and certainly not some off number like a dozen (because thats how many you were able to cram onto that sized sprue)
Then you sell seperate "customization packs" for what those individual models can be turned into...A pack with 10 jump-packs, 10 boltguns, 10 chainswords, 1 powerweapon, 1 each plasma pistol, plasma gun, melta gun, etc for about 15 dollars. Now I can take those basic tac squads and make an Assault Squad.
You get an economy of scale since your only producing 1 kit of baseline models (the tac squad) and the custom kits are then easier to produce with less material required.
(EDIT) Look at Terminators. For 50 bucks+ i can get a standard termi-squad or an assault squad. The assault squad comes with 5 sets of LC and 5 sets of TH/SS. Alot of tose parts go to waste.
So why not sell kits that have JUST the termie legs, body, and head (like the AOBR Termies...without the arms) for something like 35-40 dollars. and another kit that has ALL of the arms/weapons for another 15. Now i can buy 1 kit of arms and 3 kits of bodies and use EVERYTHING!!!!! (and you just sold 2 more packs of Termies rather than me buying parts on EBay). I can even make Dark Angel termies with TH/SS and a cyclone launcher all from the same kit. An excuse to buy a new codex and build a new Army (more money for you since i need to buy the DA customization packs).

Competitors: Rather than suing a company for making the bits and pieces you DONT/WONT why not sell them an annual license to use your trademark. They get the expense of making the specialization products and the legitimacy of the product being "official", you get some hard cash out of the deal, and we the player get lots of opportunities to make unique armies that won't get frowned upon or dinged at sanctioned events.

OK, on to RULES.
Don't EVER release a new Edition unless you are ready to release EVERY codex (and model/conversion) within a reasonable time frame (say...1 year). The fact that we are now discussing 6th edition 40K while the following 7 armies (Chaos, Dark Angels, Templars, Sisters, Necrons, Tau, and Eldar) are 2-3 editions behind and living on FAQs and WD-Dexes is pathetic...especially Chaos, which is the primary antagonist to Space marines in the 40K universe.

Better US support. America is a huge country and we west-coasters can't always find the time/money to travel to Chicago or Baltimore to experience your Primary annual event (Gamesday). Not to mention the folks in Hawaii definately get the 'high hard one' when it comes to Tournies and big events (Yeah, I won the Ard Boyz prelim...now i have to fly to LA just to play the semis...NOT).

Finecast was a FAIL. You were trying to use a less viscous plastic in molds made for metal. It did not work...to many bubbles and miscasts are getting by your QA.
STOP NOW! Having to replace AT YOUR COST these models will kill your bottom line AND leave you with a reputation for poor quality.
In todays CGI world it should not cost too much to just remake the 'metal models' into new molds suitable for standard grey plastic. Looking at the quality and detail you achieved with AoBR only proves it can be done.
Go do it.

OK, Rant over while i consider other issues.

QFT. GW seems to not understand that you can only do the "Well, they'll buy extras of this box to get certain stuff from the sprues inside" to a certain degree. Would I get a Devestator box to get the models and their weapons? Sure. Would I get the same box for a single lascannon or heavy bolter? Screw that, I'll use ebay.

Some armies also get extra fluff in their boxes that I know GW is factoring into the cost. Do Tau need gun drones? Yes, for vehicles and conversions to other drones if nothing else. Do we need 2 drones in every non-blister of units? Probably not, and especially not if you'll charge customers the $5 you apparently charge for 2 of them.]

Honestly, if they'd bring their bitz back, or make it an economically feasible method (like dkellyj's mention of upgrade packs), they'd make a killing AND start to take sales away from the competing bitz sellers on ebay and such. Seems like a no-brainer...

helgrenze wrote:Just my opinions here.....

One: The steady price increases are moving the company's products out of the purchase range of the target consumer. The company needs to find a way to both lower costs, and therefor price... and increase the speed at which new products are released.. increasing revenue stream.

Two: Alter the rate that new editions are produced. A longer period between new editions, and especially between the last codex and the next edition, would allow for customers to become that much more familiar with the products and models available.

Three: Increase the speed that new codex/army books are released. This would create positive "buzz" for each new army, and decrease the amount of "wishlist" false codexes that crop up between releases.

Four: Return White Dwarf to magazine status, instead of it's current "catalog" incarnation. More hobby based articles, fewer onesided, "flavor of the month" battle reports, more, well, FUN. In its current state, White Dwarf is an over priced and ineffective waste of the companies time and money.

Couldn't agree more with all of these points. I got into 40k about 2004, 2005, when I was maybe 11 or 12, and far less frugal with my money. Prices were also a lot cheaper then- if i had never heard of 40k and walked into a GW store now and saw the prices on their products, I would probably laugh and leave the store immediately. I mean seriously...almost $60 for the rulebook, another $110 for a battleforce box, $33 for the codex, then there's all the paint and glue on top of that...you're talking upwards of $225 just to get a decent sized army and start playing. That is one huge chunk of change, and anyone with any fiscal sense will be very cautious about starting the hobby and play lots beforehand with some friends or w/e before getting into it.

They could also do to take the spotlight off marines a bit and focus on the xenos more, spurring xenos players to buy more. GW, you have not got much of my money in a long time because my main army, Necrons, has not seen anything new in quite some time.

Your point on White Dwarf is also why my subscription was cancelled some time ago, leaving more money in my pocket and out of your hands.

I agree with these points.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:How about having summer and winter sales? Or BOGOF offers?

Somewhere in Lenton a GW Exec just keeled over dead.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:How about having summer and winter sales? Or BOGOF offers

BOGOF?

Buy One Get One Free.

What I don't understand is why there isn't at least a "Cheap" box for every army. IG I know has the Heavy Weapons team, which is ded cheap (and has bitz for plenty of extra conversions), so why not do something similar? 5 Grotz for 10 bucks. Or a single Boyz sprue for 10-15? It wouldn't require an incredible amount of difference in manufacture, and you'd get a lot more people doing spur of the moment buyz, because, well, you can always use more Boyz.

Huh? You mean the £24 three base box, or the OOP one which was about £10, IIRC?

Didn't realize it was OOP. I got a HWT for about 15 American a couple weeks ago. Used it for my Lootas and Flash Gitz.

Ah right. I wouldn't have considered it cheap as such, but it's certainly cheaper to buy than most GW boxes, yeah. Couldn't bring myself to not get the cheaper-per-head three set though. There's the five man box of Cadians for cheap Guard pick ups now, I think it's £5.50. I agree with you, cheap 'top up' boxes for all armies would be a good idea.

Not to mention, it's absolutely brilliant to get the kitbashing and scratchbuilding crowd, too. I would love it if I could buy a 5 body box of Boyz for 10 bucks, because I can easily mod them into lootas, or Burnas, or Kommandoes, or what have you. Even drivers for vehicles and such.

So, know how I was all "If GW only released small sprues of a couple infantry models at a time for cheap, they'd be gobbled up!"?

Well, just browsing their website, looks like they have a 4 boy sprue for ~$8 US. Just Slugga boyz (they look like Black Reach), but still, that's no problem when you're an Ork!

I may actually buy a sprue or two.

Ask the Perrys how they produce 40 figures for £18.......When GW charges £15 for 10.........
Offer a few more offers and incentives to purchase product directly fro them rather than through retailers. Spread the releases out a bit more rather than just releasing new models when an army book or codex come out keep gradually releasing them.

Llamahead wrote: Ask the Perrys how they produce 40 figures for £18.......When GW charges £15 for 10.........

Lol, indeed

I think their response would be something along the lines of, "Our miniatures are the best in the world blah blah blah." They might also recourse to the fact their kits have lot of options on the sprues, but both are weak arguments.

Unfortunately for then they are not ( IMHORackham was and Cipher Studios, Studio Mc Vey and Bane Legion are better). Also theres arguably more profit in being the common brand than that. Who makes more monrey Koenigseg or Ford? It would be better for them if they're more honest about their place in the market. That means comparing their products honestly to their competitors and pricing accordingly. This is especially glaring with Tools and Paintbrushes where GW is a basic entry level competitor which tries t price itself as if it was a high quality brand.

Llamahead wrote: Ask the Perrys how they produce 40 figures for £18.......When GW charges £15 for 10.........
Offer a few more offers and incentives to purchase product directly fro them rather than through retailers. Spread the releases out a bit more rather than just releasing new models when an army book or codex come out keep gradually releasing them.

The Perrys are competing with at least a dozen other companies, producing the same general figures for that price point.

Production costs have nothing to do with what GW charges, by and large. You're being charged for the Citadel/Games Workshop name on there.

Kanluwen wrote:

Pacific wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Pacific wrote:How many people were pulled into the GW hobby by the sight of Space Crusade, or Heroquest, in amongst other board games?

Regarding point 2, I find it unbelievable that the company doesn't have a reasonably priced boxed game, which could serve as an introductory set into the world of Warhammer. The imagery they have got on hand is incredible, loads of kids would go straight for it on the shelf. Really, I think this point is unforgivable.

Do you know who buys board games now, by and large?

Parents and adults without children for "game nights". Kids don't really factor into it, the board games that sell have a nostalgia factor or are completely unacceptable for children anyways.

The "imagery" we have now for Warhammer in a great many places would be a definitive "NO SALE" for a parent buying for their child however.

Board games are still pretty popular for kids where I am from, not to mention their use in school clubs, and other youth orientated programs.

Without definite sales figures it's impossible to know for sure, but I would make the argument that it is one potential avenue for sales that is not open.

Ehhh. They might be popular for school clubs and youth oriented programs to buy or have donated, it doesn't mean the kids actually use.

And in the age of GTA and Modern Combat, I would say any cover on a box game short of something Slaaneshi and tentacle orientated isn't that likely to put parents off buying it!

And in the age of parents buying those things for their kids without knowing what it is, uproars are immediately raised when they do find out the material in question.

Look at the scandal about the level "No Russian". It's not required to play through for progression, it just is a story point for MW2. Yet it's been decried as a "murder simulator".

Someone better tell FFG that they are in the wrong market then!

Anvildude wrote:So, know how I was all "If GW only released small sprues of a couple infantry models at a time for cheap, they'd be gobbled up!"?

Well, just browsing their website, looks like they have a 4 boy sprue for ~$8 US. Just Slugga boyz (they look like Black Reach), but still, that's no problem when you're an Ork!

I may actually buy a sprue or two.

Those small model boxes are snap-fit models. It'll be much harder to convert using those models rather than using multi-part models.

Well, yeah, but that didn't stop me from turning 10 AoBR boyz into Shootaboyz, now did it?

I've got a system for removing the extra arm, and I'm not afraid to carve up a shoulder to get them posed right.

Anvildude wrote:Isn't GW publicly traded? Wouldn't it be possible for fans and enthusiasts to, bit by bit, buy up the company?

sadly fanboys is exactly what you dont want involved in a company like this. They tend to get carried away and lose the intergral ideas that make the world and story arcs interesting. and the whole thing would become a massive self parody. See the ultramarine flim/trash people lapped that rubbish up. That is fanboy skimmed creatives, the animation was terrible - they couldnt even walk correctly, the script was embarrassing, The ridiclously thin plot, the stupid action scenes, the terribly designed daemon with its skinny legs. Now compare it to most of the black libaray - most of them didnt play nor know the world of 40k but they have freaking depth well most of them and a sense of self.

No order:

1. Improve relations to indie stores and utilize them better. Right now only GW North America has a real online shopping cart for their catalog while stores like miniwargaming.com and thewarstore.com require you to mail or phone in the list instead of conveniently clicking for yourself. Support indie stores so they can support you better and in turn their communities will as well. I'm focusing on North America because I'm not sure what GW's shopping cart regulations are like in other regions. Also why not cut a deal with hobby chainstores for shelfspace like HobbyTown USA if its feasible as well?

2. Keep up the DVDs, video games etc. Its awesome to see the GW brand get strengthened through these forms of media.

3. Starter sets and booster packs like battleforces should be cheaper and they should retail closer to a new video game in price instead of the current cost of nearly two video games. Let Forgeworld be the venue for the big bucks (of course this is just all imo and not based on concrete economics, to me $50-70 is where the booster packs should fall under and over $100 retail seems too scary of a number)

4. More online stuff like hobby videos and articles, perhaps bring back the message board

5. Bring back smaller, skirmish scaled games like Necromunda in plastic. A lot of these sets could be trickled down to 40k as well and maybe even expanded into their own video game properties.

6. Keep focusing on building up communities so tabletop wargamers don't end up being a dying breed Tournaments, releases designed for veterans like Planestrike, more affordable starter sets and booster packs, cool campaigns, more prizes, etc.

Kirasu wrote:They need to stop basing battleforces on the newest models, thats what they need to stop doing

CSM would be a cool army to get into if you didnt have to waste money on possessed in the starter. If they sat down and actually went through what would make a solid starting army INCLUDING if you bought multiple of the sets then you would have people buy those sets

Take for example the lizardmen battleforce. It has Saurus, temple guard, skinks and coldone knights which is an amazing core of models (Coldones werent awful in 7th).. Then, if you bought 2 of those sets you got a complete unit of temple guard, enough skinks and a good amount of saurus to play a DECENTLY sized game

That is how they should base the battle forces.. but I guess thats too smart

QFT

It's only page 3, so I might as well wade in with an opinion.

Speaking, then, as a board member* who's been asked for his thoughts, I'd observe that most of the previous comments and suggestions so far are decent, constructive and imaginative but also would have negligible impact upon the company's actual revenue.

It has been conclusively demonstrated time after time that our most valuable asset is our IP, and the substantial first-level revenue from our existing licenses - most notably the Dawn of War franchise - is illustration of what additional penetration we can achieve with almost no overheads, delivering near-perfect profit.

However, whilst this is true, it's worth remembering that we are far from the only valuable IP out there. In terms of leverage, we cannot compete with the value of IPs like Harry Potter or Disney Princess or dozens of others, and we run the risk of spreading our property too thinly if we rely upon its value to shore up our financial future. For this reason, we need to continue to develop and evolve the proprietary IPs of Warhammer and Warhammer 40000, exploring the inherent value of what we already have at hand.

The Specialist Games experiment was proof enough that additional games in the stable only re-distribute customer spending, rather than generating new expenditure. Yet FFG's experience with 40kRPG and the success of the Black Library, as well as Daan of War, have proven that our IP has a potential appeal far beyond the market for our proprietary miniatures games and that we have to deliver a product that will reach out to and draw in those second-tier consumers of our IP to become first-tier consumers, not only purchasing a GW-brand product, but being converted into repeat consumers who will buy GW-brand products again and again.

In this respect, Black Library is showing us the way, delivering off-the-shelf products that fulfil an instant gratification of a consumer's desire to connect with one of our worlds. So that's the model we should investigate: an off-the-shelf, self-contained product delivering instant gratification, which nevertheless encourages a repeat purchase.

My proposal, therefore, is a family of expandable boxed games, each designed to tell a discreet story, with a printed playing surface included along with exclusive plastic miniatures to represent two factions from our worlds that conflict in a replayable, but pre-defined scenario.

We can then market additional miniatures from those factions as expansions to the basic box, with rules included to play out "sequals" that then lead eventually to the core rules and the "sand box" of our conventional games.

We already did something similar with the original Mines of Moria and Battle for Macragge sets, but didn't include the playing surface. Our friends at FFG are doing the same with their DUST Tactics game and the miniatures battle game, DUST Warfare. And Wizards of the Coast did it with the Star Wars Collectible Miniatures Game (but with terrible pre-painted minis).

Existing players will love seeing new plastics for their existing armies and discovering new stories and ways to play their favourite games. Second-tier consumers of BL, FFG or DOW products will be drawn to the off-the-shelf instant gratification of their desire for a fresh experience of our IP. And with a "board game"-type format, we may replicate and even exceed the success of Space Crusade and HeroQuest and attract brand new consumers of our IP off the shelves off toy and game shops.

R.

*not really

Welp, might as well:

First of all, we have to make our product Convenient. By Convenient, we have to produce and distribute our products in a way that allows our playerbase to use them effectively, out of the box/blister. This isn't to say we have to give models away, but I will give some examples. The Eldar player above me said that you have to field units of Aspect Warriors in tens, but our box only includes five and the champion. We would have to raise this to double, with ten models, not including the champion they came with. This allows a person to use the unit he just bought on the tabletop as soon as he buys it, and he doesn't have to worry about buying more than one box, thus being more convenient to the player. Naturally, we would increase the price (see point B, below) to cover the cost of the models we put in there, but not to the current point it is now. Another example is the Chaos Warriors Box for WHFB: Twelve models in a box for $35, which is three ranks of four. This conflicts with the Ranking Rules (I don't have the newest edition, but the last edition was like this) where you need five models or more per rank in order to get a rank bonus. Remove those two extra models, and lower the price to a more reasonable amount, say $27.50, for the ten models still in the box. This allows players to have two full ranks and not have to worry about those two extra models clogging up the back/being a pain to move.

Second of all, lower the prices of our products. Our sales are being reduced, and just raising the prices won't help us sucker any more players. We have to let them come into our grasp, and once they are hooked, THEN we try to entice them with extras (Army specific dice, certain things like that). $35 boxes of twelve models (Or the now 10 Chaos Warriors) should be reduced to $25 at Most, and then the discount for taking out those two models. Most kids I know, who are the most likely to buy our products, get $25 monthly for an allowance. Our prices as they are now are just too high, and it's putting players off of the game, instead of making them want to play it.

Thirdly, White Dwarf, in it's current state, is just pathetic. Our Battle Reports are nothing more than big advertisements for our newest, most expensive model. This has got to stop. We should have fluff sections, Comics (Turn Signals on a Land Raider is a good one, or at least, it was, more on that later), painting articles, and even Tactica that players may or may not have thought of before. Turn it into essentially our very own Newspaper instead of a big Advertisment.

Fourthly, we need to stop C&Ding everyone who makes a little spoof on our game. It started as a joke, and it is still a joke, even if the telling of the joke and the punchline is a little different. Let me introduce everyone to Team Fortress 2, Nerf Now!, and the Meet the ____ Videos. Two of those are official, one of those is not, and yet Nerf Now! still brings in as many players as the Meet the Videos. Why? Because if someone searches for Gaming Comic, and find one solely based off of TF2, they start reading it out of interest, only to find that what they are reading is an actual game they can go out and buy. Now, I'm not saying stop the Cease and Desist orders, but we need to take a more lax approach to it.

Lastly, even in the GrimDarkness of the far future, there needs to be limits. We currently have one model, and I quote "Carving his name into the Daemon Primarches Chest". This is too extreme. Next we will have Eldrad engaging in a psychic battle with the Hive Mind, or perhaps the Emperor himself. We have to have a line that clearly says "No Crossing". The Emperor, Primarches, Hive Mind, Chaos Gods, C'tan (in pure form, not in their bodies) and such should, pardon my terminology, ROFLSTOMP everything they come across, as they are the major powers in the universe.


If we do this, I think we will pull our company out of the current nosedive it's in.


I think this is the longest post I have posted in my history on Dakka, so if you don't excuse me, I'mma be posting some Nonsense in the Off Topic forum for a bit.

Kanluwen wrote:There is no way in hell they will sell a "legal minimum" army for under or around $20 USD.

It's just not feasible.

It is feasible. They could do it. However, it would require familiarity with a business strategy that is alien to GWS (but what business strategy isn't, amirite)


I kind of resent that this topic was so fraudulently titled, and that this is actually the monthly wishlist thread.

But, since I'm here anyway! I'd like to see a lower barrier to entry. The starter box should be $50 tops, even if they had to trim it down some. Which they don't need to, see above.

Ouze wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:There is no way in hell they will sell a "legal minimum" army for under or around $20 USD.

It's just not feasible.

It is feasible. They could do it. However, it would require familiarity with a business strategy that is alien to GWS (but what business strategy isn't, amirite)'

Yes, a "legal minimum" army for each army in the game, for three different systems and each one crammed into its own box for $20 USD. I just don't see that as feasible, even as a loss leader.

If it were me, and I've said this before, I'd do something for like $45 and build it around the idea of "campaign" packs. Two small 750 point armies, usually in a single box with a campaign booklet themed around a previously unexplored(but currently existing) fight within the background and include an 'exclusive' model/unit for each of the two armies involved. Make it a very distinctive model and unit, one that can't really be converted into anything else too easily and it ensures people aren't likely to buy more than one.

I kind of resent that this topic was so fraudulently titled, and that this is actually the monthly wishlist thread.

Of course it is. The "monthy wishlist threads" always get some kind of impressive name to sucker folks in.

But, since I'm here anyway! I'd like to see a lower barrier to entry. The starter box should be $50 tops, even if they had to trim it down some. Which they don't need to, see above.

And how are they going to ensure that the loss leader in the form of the starter box suckers people into buying more actual product rather than multiple starters?

Kanluwen wrote:Yes, a "legal minimum" army for each army in the game, for three different systems and each one crammed into its own box for $20 USD. I just don't see that as feasible, even as a loss leader.

You're moving the goalposts - I didn't suggest what you're suggesting I said. Make one for SM, one for orks, and call it a day. Call it AOBR lite. Someone can drop $20 or $25 to see if they want to play.

Kanluwen wrote:If it were me, and I've said this before, I'd do something for like $45 and build it around the idea of "campaign" packs. Two small 750 point armies, usually in a single box with a campaign booklet themed around a previously unexplored(but currently existing) fight within the background and include an 'exclusive' model/unit for each of the two armies involved. Make it a very distinctive model and unit, one that can't really be converted into anything else too easily and it ensures people aren't likely to buy more than one.

This is a good idea. Especially if it includes special rules, like Combat Patrol.

Kanluwen wrote:And how are they going to ensure that the loss leader in the form of the starter box suckers people into buying more actual product rather than multiple starters?

The force organization chart already does this, kinda. No matter how many monopose, snap-tite marines you have, you still will want alternate weapons/poses, a Rhino, or a drop pod, or a dreadnought, or terminators, etc etc etc. It's just a foot in the door.

The $100 AOBR is simply too high for the target audience; people who don't yet play 40k and don't know if they will like it, and want to try. It's an awesome value for people already are starting those armies and will trade out half, but that is exactly the opposite of what a starter pack is for, and what a battlebox, ideally, is for.

Ouze wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Yes, a "legal minimum" army for each army in the game, for three different systems and each one crammed into its own box for $20 USD. I just don't see that as feasible, even as a loss leader.

You're moving the goalposts - I didn't suggest what you're suggesting I said. Make one for SM, one for orks, and call it a day. Call it AOBR lite. Someone can drop $20 or $25 to see if they want to play.

I'm not so much moving the goalposts as also addressing a concern that inevitably gets brought up with these kinds of things.

The "flagship" armies shouldn't necessarily be that.

Kanluwen wrote:If it were me, and I've said this before, I'd do something for like $45 and build it around the idea of "campaign" packs. Two small 750 point armies, usually in a single box with a campaign booklet themed around a previously unexplored(but currently existing) fight within the background and include an 'exclusive' model/unit for each of the two armies involved. Make it a very distinctive model and unit, one that can't really be converted into anything else too easily and it ensures people aren't likely to buy more than one.

This is a good idea. Especially if it includes special rules, like Combat Patrol.

Oh I'm aware it's a good idea. I've pelted them with it a few times too, but received no replies back. Which in and of itself is actually fairly unusal.

Kanluwen wrote:And how are they going to ensure that the loss leader in the form of the starter box suckers people into buying more actual product rather than multiple starters?

The force organization chart already does this, kinda. No matter how many monopose, snap-tite marines you have, you still will want alternate weapons/poses, a Rhino, or a drop pod, or a dreadnought, or terminators, etc etc etc. It's just a foot in the door.

The $100 AOBR is simply too high for the target audience; people who don't yet play 40k and don't know if they will like it, and want to try. It's an awesome value for people already are starting those armies and will trade out half, but that is exactly the opposite of what a starter pack is for, and what a battlebox, ideally, is for.

How much was AoBR when it first released? It wasn't $100. It was something like $65-$75, somewhere in there. It was an insane steal for people who were already starting those armies. AoBR bits are pretty heavily available out there, just like IoB.

I mean hell, Island of Blood's Sea Guard were going for exorbitant amounts from bits sellers before GW released the sprue by itself.

I pre-ordered it for $60 8/29/08, and it was the first 40k product I ever bought, not counting Dawn of War. It's still a good deal even at $100 for what you get, it just not longer serves the purpose it is intended for at it's current price point, in my opinion. It did when it was $60.

edit: and yes, SM and Orks would be cutting into AOBR's territory a mite much. Maybe CSM and Templars or something like that, having them both in PA would make the rules simpler on newbies.