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BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Or in short, read the codex again

The Old Ones did at one point beat the Necrontyr back into a relatively small part of space, but the old ones and their creations were the ones that eventually got owned so hard it made the warp a dangerous place, as they were desperately using all the psychic mojo they could to fight back. If they'd laid off the offensive psykerness the Enslaver Plague probably wouldn't have happened

Are you talking about the first war between the Necrons and the Old Ones? Because they were garbage before the C'Tan rolled up and gave em god mode.

Nope, enslaver plague is what really killed the old ones, and drove off the C'tan.

Psykers are some of the most powerful living weapons as they can open portals to the warp and the emperor protects humanity and the old one were killed off by a warp virus and they created races like the eldar to fight for them

kavyaanshrike wrote:Psykers are some of the most powerful living weapons as they can open portals to the warp and the emperor protects humanity and the old one were killed off by a warp virus and they created races like the eldar to fight for them

That made absolutely no sense....

Hardly garbage.

Necrontyr tech was superior, but they were outmaneuvered due to the webway, which they couldn't access.

They fought terrible, long and bloody wars before being beaten back to the point that they were pretty much an irritation. At the end of the wars they were a bit naff, yes (losers of a war generally are ), but fighting the Old Ones enough to fill a library with accounts of the battles would indicate that they were close to on par (and outmaneuvered) not curbstomped.

If they were too much weaker than the Old Ones then they would have lost immediately, or just been ignored by the Old Ones.


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kavyaanshrike wrote:Psykers are some of the most powerful living weapons as they can open portals to the warp and the emperor protects humanity and the old one were killed off by a warp virus and they created races like the eldar to fight for them

1/. They can open portals to the Warp, but it's an amazingly bad idea.

2/. He does, but then he's not a standard psyker. He's a god wannabe that didn't want to be

3/. The Old ones did indeed create the eldar and other races, such as Humanity (arguably) and the Orks, Rashan and K'nib. They created races with more and more connection to the warp, more psychic power, as a desperate bit to win the war against the Necrons, who were by that point dominating the galaxy. The psychic races were effective against the necrons, but the concentration of psykers turned the Warp nasty.

The Enslaver plague was not a virus. Enslavers are warp entities (think Daemons) who could possess psykers and turn them into gates to enter the universe. They overran the Old One strongholds and started killing EVERYTHING. The Ctan went into hibernation, and took their Necrons with them, as the Enslavers looked likely to kill of the 'cattle' the Ctan fed on entirely (other races).

Ascalam wrote:Hardly garbage.

Necrontyr tech was superior, but they were outmaneuvered due to the webway, which they couldn't access.

They fought terrible, long and bloody wars before being beaten back to the point that they were pretty much an irritation. At the end of the wars they were a bit naff, yes (losers of a war generally are ), but fighting the Old Ones enough to fill a library with accounts of the battles would indicate that they were close to on par (and outmaneuvered) not curbstomped.

If they were too much weaker than the Old Ones then they would have lost immediately, or just been ignored by the Old Ones.


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kavyaanshrike wrote:Psykers are some of the most powerful living weapons as they can open portals to the warp and the emperor protects humanity and the old one were killed off by a warp virus and they created races like the eldar to fight for them

1/. They can open portals to the Warp, but it's an amazingly bad idea.

2/. He does, but then he's not a standard psyker. He's a god wannabe that didn't want to be

3/. The Old ones did indeed create the eldar and other races, such as Humanity (arguably) and the Orks, Rashan and K'nib. They created races with more and more connection to the warp, more psychic power, as a desperate bit to win the war against the Necrons, who were by that point dominating the galaxy. The psychic races were effective against the necrons, but the concentration of psykers turned the Warp nasty.

The Enslaver plague was not a virus. Enslavers are warp entities (think Daemons) who could possess psykers and turn them into gates to enter the universe. They overran the Old One strongholds and started killing EVERYTHING. The Ctan went into hibernation, and took their Necrons with them, as the Enslavers looked likely to kill of the 'cattle' the Ctan fed on entirely (other races).

Pre-C'tan they were just a really angry mortal race at war.... Post-C'tan they were Terminators capable of fighting with nigh infinite numbers, due to being slipped into new armor once they died. They became unreal soldiers, that had there technological levels bolstered to insane levels. The wars they waged became one giant culling called a red harvest.


So I think Pre-C'tan they were a race more akin to the Tau with the Post-C'tan meeting making them Tau on roid rage for tech levels.

Actually pre-ctan the Necrotyr were still more advaced than the Old Ones, tech-wise. It's in the codex.

Post Ctan they also had gods on their side and metal bodies, but their tech didn't advance too much further, from what i can tell.

Ascalam wrote:Actually pre-ctan the Necrotyr were still more advaced than the Old Ones, tech-wise. It's in the codex.

Post Ctan they also had gods on their side and metal bodies, but their tech didn't advance too much further, from what i can tell.

Except suddenly they had FTL travel, phase tech, and teleportation which allowed them to counter and over power the Old Ones' use of the Warp. That itself is a massive technological jump.

Who's to say that they didn't have them before the Ctan showed up? They had millenia to research before they got the Ctan awakened.

If you allow BL as canon they had phase tech before the Ctan. They may well have had teleportations and FTL travel beforehand also. I don't think it says in the fluff anywhere that the Ctan gave them these tech upgrades.

I don't think there is anything saying that they didn't either, as Necron fluff is a bit sparse right now

Im gonna have to put in my vote for a bunch of 40k gamers all in a small room for a long tournament in the middle of summer in florida. Eye watering, rotten onion and dirty undershorts BO. We are talking high alert here. Nothing out there can match that.

Free Speech. Boom, keepeeeeeer.

sennacherib wrote:Im gonna have to put in my vote for a bunch of 40k gamers all in a small room for a long tournament in the middle of summer in florida. Eye watering, rotten onion and dirty undershorts BO. We are talking high alert here. Nothing out there can match that.

QFT - Gamer Chemcannon BO is pretty potent

Virus bomb, when it hits, it won't stop till everything is dead.

Yeah, works a treat on Necrons, anything nurgle, anything with a sealed cab ...

Orks are the most powerful thing in the galaxy. As soon as a few of them get on a planet you are never gonna get rid of them cause of the spores. plus they can make any weapon or machine work just by thinking it should work how many races can do that. And if there ever was a warlord able to unite all of the orks they would wipe out everything in their path the only reason they haven't is it's just too much fun to fight and they get distracted easily. Other than that I would say those star fort things that were made to kill C'tan or vortex missiles which detonate into black holes.

Ascalam wrote:Who's to say that they didn't have them before the Ctan showed up? They had millenia to research before they got the Ctan awakened.

The Necrontyr interplanetary travel is only described as (if I recall correctly) using slow-burning candle ships with the crew in stasis (almost certainly not faster-than-light, or at least not to the extent the Necrons now have). They were also outmaneuvered due to the Old Ones using the Webway, which wouldn't be a considerable advantage if the Necrontyr had the current technology of the Necrons. I'd say that it's heavily hinted, although not outright said, that the C'tan managed to grant the Necrontyr a technology boost, either directly or indirectly.

Chuck Norris!


No,seriously,the Blackstone Fortress.

That's when they started exploring. Slow burning torch-ships and stasis crypts.

I was referring to the time during and after the war with the old ones, where they had millenia to improve their tech base, which was already better than that of the Old Ones to start with. If they were smart, and they were, they wouldn't re-attack immediately after making some tech didscovery or advance, but would build up fleets and improve them as they went along, waiting until they thought that they could crush the Old Ones. The Ctan were the point where they decided that they could, but their already impressive technical knowledge wouldn't have stood still for thousands of years while they looked for something better to destroy the Old Ones with.

The fluff isn't specific as to where they got the tech from. The breakthrough that allowed them to translate the Ctan from incorporeal to corporeal (inside a shell) could also have been the one they needed to manage true FTL etc.

EXTERMINATUS!!!

Teh Emprah is the strongest and more powerful weapon in the 40k galaxy.

Seem to recall the Eldar have weapons of last resort hidden in the webway/black library that can destroy the galaxy. That would probably be the most powerful weapon.

Wish i could remember where i read it but i think it may have had something to do with removing the the barrier between the warp and real-space.

The craftworlds can destroy planets. They did it to prevent the tyranids resources.

Ascalam wrote:That's when they started exploring. Slow burning torch-ships and stasis crypts.

I was referring to the time during and after the war with the old ones, where they had millenia to improve their tech base, which was already better than that of the Old Ones to start with. If they were smart, and they were, they wouldn't re-attack immediately after making some tech didscovery or advance, but would build up fleets and improve them as they went along, waiting until they thought that they could crush the Old Ones. The Ctan were the point where they decided that they could, but their already impressive technical knowledge wouldn't have stood still for thousands of years while they looked for something better to destroy the Old Ones with.

The fluff isn't specific as to where they got the tech from. The breakthrough that allowed them to translate the Ctan from incorporeal to corporeal (inside a shell) could also have been the one they needed to manage true FTL etc.

No, before they had the Ctans on their side they were a lot less technically advanced than the Old Ones. One of the reasons they were pissed at the Old Ones in the first place was that they lived on a next to uninhabitable planet. If they had FTL travel then whey wouldnt they just leave the craphole they called home planet?

Ego.

The main imperium character in a black library novel.

Matt Ward.


or Matt Ward's fluff regarding the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT.

tedurur wrote:

Ascalam wrote:That's when they started exploring. Slow burning torch-ships and stasis crypts.

I was referring to the time during and after the war with the old ones, where they had millenia to improve their tech base, which was already better than that of the Old Ones to start with. If they were smart, and they were, they wouldn't re-attack immediately after making some tech didscovery or advance, but would build up fleets and improve them as they went along, waiting until they thought that they could crush the Old Ones. The Ctan were the point where they decided that they could, but their already impressive technical knowledge wouldn't have stood still for thousands of years while they looked for something better to destroy the Old Ones with.

The fluff isn't specific as to where they got the tech from. The breakthrough that allowed them to translate the Ctan from incorporeal to corporeal (inside a shell) could also have been the one they needed to manage true FTL etc.

No, before they had the Ctans on their side they were a lot less technically advanced than the Old Ones. One of the reasons they were pissed at the Old Ones in the first place was that they lived on a next to uninhabitable planet. If they had FTL travel then whey wouldnt they just leave the craphole they called home planet?

Did you ever actually read the codex or are you just skimming lexicanum or something?

By the time the Old Ones and the Necrontyr were at war they had long since moved beyond that planet. They held a grudge because their race was short lived and the Old Ones were near immortal, not because their yard was less lush

It says in the codex that Necron tech was superior to Old One tech, but the Old Ones had the webway, which they used to outmaneuver them (and massive Psyker mojo that the necrontyr lacked). I'd quote, if i had the dex on me (and will if need be when i get home from work).

They were beaten back to a smallish part of space and left alone for millenia, when they already has an impressive tech base. They likely developed FTL at that point, not the moment they achieved spaceflight It took them a very long time to figure out how to talk to the Ctan and to bottle them into a bodysuit. Science doesn't stand still for millenia.

I'm not saying (as you would have gathered if you had actually read my post) that they definitely developed FTL before the Ctan showed up. I'm saying that it was possible that they did. The codex doesn't say that the Ctan gave them the tech either, just that the next time they went to war that they had it

Hmm, its on page 24 in the Necron codex.
The third (and last) paragraph of "The Necrontyr" subchapter says things like
"Using stasis crypts and slow burning torch ships"

"Sometime into their SLOW expansion, the Necrontyr encountered the Old Ones"

Then in the next subchapter called "War in Heaven" it pretty much starts out with saying "Their superior technology was consistently outmanouvered by the Old Ones thanks to their mastery of the webway"

So I guess you were right, I just didnt realize that the Old Ones had such crappy technology...

Every Space marine chapter. THE ULTIMATE WEAPON!!

tedurur wrote:Hmm, its on page 24 in the Necron codex.
The third (and last) paragraph of "The Necrontyr" subchapter says things like
"Using stasis crypts and slow burning torch ships"

"Sometime into their SLOW expansion, the Necrontyr encountered the Old Ones"

Then in the next subchapter called "War in Heaven" it pretty much starts out with saying "Their superior technology was consistently outmanouvered by the Old Ones thanks to their mastery of the webway"

So I guess you were right, I just didnt realize that the Old Ones had such crappy technology...

From what I understand the Old Ones tended to build everything pyschically, like the eldar do but much more so.

Eldar tech is almost organic in some ways, built from psychically reactive materials etc.. I would imagine that Old One tech took a back seat to psyker powers and so on. The Webway could be one huge, stable psychic construct (not saying it is, but it could be ).

I'm not disputing that they lacked FTL before the war with the old ones. I'm saying that between war one and war two it may have been developed, during the millenia that the Old Ones were pretty much ignoring them. There was a lot of downtime after War 1, and the necrontyr were an inventive bunch.

I find that easier to swallow, personally, than the idea that they were technolgically superior, got beaten anyway, then sat on their hands for hundreds of generations until they suddenly got God Mode

Void__Dragon wrote:
Humanity survives because it is so numerous, for the most part.

The most powerful weapon in the universe: The human libido.

Thatguyoverthere wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:
Humanity survives because it is so numerous, for the most part.

The most powerful weapon in the universe: The human libido.

Mega exalt.