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Kanluwen wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:Legions were bigger, in first heretic it is stated that the WB have 100,000 marines

I'm starting to think people are confusing "Marines" with "Combat Troops".
Legions did actually include normal humans in their ranks as what amounted to their own "personal armies".

So? In first heretic 100.000 word bearer space marines kneel before the Emperor.
There were no serfs or imperial army elements...

Kanluwen wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Thunder warriors didn't run around in power armor. But its specifically PA in the dex....

"Thunder Armor" is Power Armor.

It's not as advanced as Mk2 and beyond--but it was Power Armor.

Mk1 or thunder armor is the predecessor of power armor. A necron and dedicated collector like Trazyn wouldn't make the mistake of confusing them. It doesn't fit into the paragraph's context, to put a mere thunder-warrior as a subject in Trazyns collection.
He displays pieces from lost Eldar craftworlds, the head of the man who ended the apostasy, a display of the death scene of solar macharius, etc etc and you claim "it could be a warrior of the unity wars" ? Really?
As per 'outcast dead' those thunderwarriors were culled after the final battle and they never left Terra.
Access of Trazyn to one is most unlikely.

1hadhq wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:Legions were bigger, in first heretic it is stated that the WB have 100,000 marines

I'm starting to think people are confusing "Marines" with "Combat Troops".
Legions did actually include normal humans in their ranks as what amounted to their own "personal armies".

So? In first heretic 100.000 word bearer space marines kneel before the Emperor.
There were no serfs or imperial army elements...

I'm seriously having to have glossed over this when I read "First Heretic", and will have to reread the stupid book when I find it again. I do not remember 100,000 Word Bearers "kneeling before the Emperor".

I'm not sure how I feel about this change though.

Kanluwen wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Thunder warriors didn't run around in power armor. But its specifically PA in the dex....

"Thunder Armor" is Power Armor.

It's not as advanced as Mk2 and beyond--but it was Power Armor.

Mk1 or thunder armor is the predecessor of power armor. A necron and dedicated collector like Trazyn wouldn't make the mistake of confusing them. It doesn't fit into the paragraph's context, to put a mere thunder-warrior as a subject in Trazyns collection.

"A mere Thunder-Warrior". You realize how silly that statement is?
Thunder Warriors were the whole reason the Imperium of Man actually came about. Thunder Warriors were the stepping stone towards the Astartes and Mankind's dominion over the stars. For a "dedicated collector like Trayzn", what could have more importance in terms of a historical footnote?

He displays pieces from lost Eldar craftworlds, the head of the man who ended the apostasy, a display of the death scene of solar macharius, etc etc and you claim "it could be a warrior of the unity wars" ? Really?
As per 'outcast dead' those thunderwarriors were culled after the final battle and they never left Terra.
Access of Trazyn to one is most unlikely.

As someone said earlier...
"He has the head of Sebastian friggin' Thor".

If he wants something, I'd say it's feasible he could have gotten it.

Kanluwen wrote:
I'm seriously having to have glossed over this when I read "First Heretic", and will have to reread the stupid book when I find it again. I do not remember 100,000 Word Bearers "kneeling before the Emperor".

I'm not sure how I feel about this change though.

OK, lets speed up your research:

> First heretic ( ADB ) page 58:
One hundredthousand word Bearers kneeled in the dust of the perfect city, rendered prone by Imperial Decree.
A Legion was on its knees.

>First heretic ( ADB ) page 61:
The Emperor speaks:
+Word Bearers, hear me well. You among all my Legions , are guilty of failure.
You number more warriors than any other, except the XIII.
Yet your conquests are the slowest and your victories ring hollow.+

The Emperor, beloved by all, talks of Space Marine Legions here, not serfs, not attached imperial army elements or any other troops.
To question him, about the size of the Legions he created?

Kanluwen wrote:
If he wants something, I'd say it's feasible he could have gotten it.

He got some impressive pieces, but is also banned on Tomb-worlds. It goes on to state he awakens his troops to fetch what could be lost in the wars to come, even occupying imperial worlds to achieve his goal. So yes he's dedicated to his "hobby".
Now, most collectors know its impossible to get everything....
In case of Trazyn, time is a factor. The head of a long dead somewhere on display can be 'acquired', a whole body directly from Terra before the IoM moved out to the inner system ( Mars, Saturn,..) again? Wouldn't bet on Trazyn.

Kanluwen wrote:So let me put this bluntly here:

With this, we're now looking at a complete overhaul of the previous fluff. Prior to now, at the outbreak of the Horus Heresy--we're looking at 10-15k for Legions as a whole, at tops.

Now, we're seeing 100-150k for the two "biggest" Legions, Space Wolves being 7k, Thousand Sons being 5k, et al.

This is what I call "A Big Deal".

It is a fairly big deal, aye.
Then again, I don't think 100k is unreasonable at all.

A 1000 chapters, each consisting of 1000 Marines is (if my maths serves me ) 1 million Space Marines. So that would require 10 Legions - loyal - numbering 100k each.
Here http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?s=764613ac83a7d36aa560e6a32f4c4e47&showtopic=224192&st=275&p=2693718&#entry2693718
AD-B mentions the concious change in size and whilst it's a bit 'whoa', I have to say I agree with it. The only problem is how other Legions may scale in size, such as the Space Wolves.

Kanluwen wrote:As someone said earlier...
"He has the head of Sebastian friggin' Thor".

If he wants something, I'd say it's feasible he could have gotten it.

Again, this all just seems to be extreme things to make his character seem so much more awesome/bad-ass, and without trying to fuel the hate-train, it does sound very like Mat Ward's (or GW's) current style of fluffing characters.

1hadhq wrote:He got some impressive pieces, but is also banned on Tomb-worlds. It goes on to state he awakens his troops to fetch what could be lost in the wars to come, even occupying imperial worlds to achieve his goal. So yes he's dedicated to his "hobby".
Now, most collectors know its impossible to get everything....
In case of Trazyn, time is a factor. The head of a long dead somewhere on display can be 'acquired', a whole body directly from Terra before the IoM moved out to the inner system ( Mars, Saturn,..) again? Wouldn't bet on Trazyn.

"The Outcast Dead" takes place during the Horus Heresy, yeah?

I'd bet that there'd be enough confusion that it'd be easy enough for him to get one.
Or that whole "Unification War" timeframe...

And it's not like the Imperium was aware of who the Necrons were at the time.

Maybe the dude in Trayzn's basement is Mortarion?

Think about it; he's crawling home after getting bullied by Draigo and BLAM! Trayzn nets him.*




*yes, it's a 'joke'

Maybe it's Marcell Wallace.

He is planning to capture Guilliman, see te latest WD.

thenoobbomb wrote:He is planning to capture Guilliman, see te latest WD.

Fairly sure that doesn't count...
I can't say for certain but i'm fairly sure.

Kanluwen wrote:

I'd bet that there'd be enough confusion that it'd be easy enough for him to get one.

Which of the two left, the subedar or the jamedar?

I am more concerned what the Inquisition traded for these tesseract labyrinths. Usually Necrons don't share tech...
Must have been something valuable and a collector like Trazyn could be mad enough to swap Necron tech for a few shiny additions to his collection.

Well, going back to the face stuck in a scream thing could make a reasonable argument for it being kurze. I know that this probably just the ramblings of a KL fan but hear me out, he is repentant for what he did, so it's not unreasonable that his face could be stuck in a scream if M'Chen stabbed him, then Trayzn popped up and stasised him and took him back to his zoo

Just Dave wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So let me put this bluntly here:

With this, we're now looking at a complete overhaul of the previous fluff. Prior to now, at the outbreak of the Horus Heresy--we're looking at 10-15k for Legions as a whole, at tops.

Now, we're seeing 100-150k for the two "biggest" Legions, Space Wolves being 7k, Thousand Sons being 5k, et al.

This is what I call "A Big Deal".

It is a fairly big deal, aye.
Then again, I don't think 100k is unreasonable at all.

A 1000 chapters, each consisting of 1000 Marines is (if my maths serves me ) 1 million Space Marines. So that would require 10 Legions - loyal - numbering 100k each.
Here http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?s=764613ac83a7d36aa560e6a32f4c4e47&showtopic=224192&st=275&p=2693718&#entry2693718
AD-B mentions the concious change in size and whilst it's a bit 'whoa', I have to say I agree with it. The only problem is how other Legions may scale in size, such as the Space Wolves.

Didn't Dan at that video interview said that they recon Ultramarines having 250.000 Space Marines ( and he noted that were only the combat ready marines, with more in reserves )?

TheAngrySquig wrote:Well, going back to the face stuck in a scream thing could make a reasonable argument for it being kurze. I know that this probably just the ramblings of a KL fan but hear me out, he is repentant for what he did, so it's not unreasonable that his face could be stuck in a scream if M'Chen stabbed him, then Trayzn popped up and stasised him and took him back to his zoo

Again, I've already told you of Curze's fate:

Well...feth it

Nobody else think that it might be a Custodes? I personally, highly doubt it's a Primarch.

Hoernakex wrote:Nobody else think that it might be a Custodes? I personally, highly doubt it's a Primarch.

I don't think it could be a rpimarch but i'm not sure about custodes...

Don't Custodes not wear power armour?

Think of it as a cross between Power Armour and Artificer Armour. It's basically master-crafted Power Armour I'd say.

Oh idk why, but I thought they wore Termie armour

They can, but like Astartes, they typically don't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:

Just Dave wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So let me put this bluntly here:

With this, we're now looking at a complete overhaul of the previous fluff. Prior to now, at the outbreak of the Horus Heresy--we're looking at 10-15k for Legions as a whole, at tops.

Now, we're seeing 100-150k for the two "biggest" Legions, Space Wolves being 7k, Thousand Sons being 5k, et al.

This is what I call "A Big Deal".

It is a fairly big deal, aye.
Then again, I don't think 100k is unreasonable at all.

A 1000 chapters, each consisting of 1000 Marines is (if my maths serves me ) 1 million Space Marines. So that would require 10 Legions - loyal - numbering 100k each.
Here http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?s=764613ac83a7d36aa560e6a32f4c4e47&showtopic=224192&st=275&p=2693718&#entry2693718
AD-B mentions the concious change in size and whilst it's a bit 'whoa', I have to say I agree with it. The only problem is how other Legions may scale in size, such as the Space Wolves.

Didn't Dan at that video interview said that they recon Ultramarines having 250.000 Space Marines ( and he noted that were only the combat ready marines, with more in reserves )?

Yeah, he did; hence my posting the video in the 1st place.

In my basic maths example, it arguably evens out the million Space Marines needed through some Legions being less than 100,000, there only being 9 loyalist Legions, casualties, but then new Space Marines and larger than 100,000 Legions, such as the UM's.

I think the DA were pretty big before that business on Caliban

Isn't this:

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Roboute_Guilliman

Guilleman is stasis? I have seen another picture of it floating around with him with black hair that is almost identical....and they both have that permanant scream going on. Combined with the WD article I kind of think it's impliied to be Guilliman too.

Considering that's a drawing of him during the Great Crusade, it's safe to say that he's not in stasis.

It CANNOT be Rowboat because Trazyn implies that he is interested in going to Ultramar and adding him to his collection. It is either in the Necron Codex or the latest White Dwarf. I'm guessing that it is one of the Loyalist Primarchs that went missing. Probably Vulkan as Russ and Corax went to the EoT and Khan is in Commoragh as an arena fighter!

ba·roque /bəˈroʊk; Fr. baˈrɔk/ [buh-rohk; Fr. ba-rawk] adjective

1.(often initial capital letter) of or pertaining to a style of architecture and art originating in Italy in the early 17th century and variously prevalent in Europe and the New World for a century and a half, characterized by free and sculptural use of the classical orders and ornament, by forms in elevation and plan suggesting movement, and by dramatic effect in which architecture, painting, sculpture, and the decorative arts often worked to combined effect.

2. (sometimes initial capital letter) of or pertaining to the musical period following the Renaissance, extending roughly from 1600 to 1750.

3. extravagantly ornate, florid, and convoluted in character or style: the baroque prose of the novel's more lurid passages.

4. irregular in shape: baroque pearls.

Can't be Russ. His armour was found at the base of a chaos temple in the EoT.

Psienesis wrote:

ba·roque /bəˈroʊk; Fr. baˈrɔk/ [buh-rohk; Fr. ba-rawk] adjective

1.(often initial capital letter) of or pertaining to a style of architecture and art originating in Italy in the early 17th century and variously prevalent in Europe and the New World for a century and a half, characterized by free and sculptural use of the classical orders and ornament, by forms in elevation and plan suggesting movement, and by dramatic effect in which architecture, painting, sculpture, and the decorative arts often worked to combined effect.

2. (sometimes initial capital letter) of or pertaining to the musical period following the Renaissance, extending roughly from 1600 to 1750.

3. extravagantly ornate, florid, and convoluted in character or style: the baroque prose of the novel's more lurid passages.

4. irregular in shape: baroque pearls.

Except in the 40k universe it's generally established that we will see baroque descriptions as the first definition.

purplefood wrote:

thenoobbomb wrote:He is planning to capture Guilliman, see te latest WD.

Fairly sure that doesn't count...
I can't say for certain but i'm fairly sure.

It was at the battle report with Ward himself!

I can't wait to see the new Trayzn model with this for a head and U Mad? written all over him

Oakenshield wrote:

Psienesis wrote:

ba·roque /bəˈroʊk; Fr. baˈrɔk/ [buh-rohk; Fr. ba-rawk] adjective

1.(often initial capital letter) of or pertaining to a style of architecture and art originating in Italy in the early 17th century and variously prevalent in Europe and the New World for a century and a half, characterized by free and sculptural use of the classical orders and ornament, by forms in elevation and plan suggesting movement, and by dramatic effect in which architecture, painting, sculpture, and the decorative arts often worked to combined effect.

2. (sometimes initial capital letter) of or pertaining to the musical period following the Renaissance, extending roughly from 1600 to 1750.

3. extravagantly ornate, florid, and convoluted in character or style: the baroque prose of the novel's more lurid passages.

4. irregular in shape: baroque pearls.

Except in the 40k universe it's generally established that we will see baroque descriptions as the first definition.

Heh? I'm pretty sure that most Imperial buildings look like nothing that came out of 17th century Italy. I'd say that definition #3 is the correct one to use when talking about 40k.

And Thunder Armor is powered armor, it's just clunky, has lots of exposed cables, and isn't environmentally sealed like the Mk II and later versions.

Primarchs don't wear regular Power Armor or Terminator Armor. Primarchs are just so large that they wear custom armor, and I always assume that what they're wearing is more effective than Terminator Armor, yet allows more freedom of movement than regular armor. Basically they get the best of the best of the best equipment (assuming that they didn't just make it themselves) and they're so freaking strong that they're able to clump around in what they're wearing without any issue.