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No where in there does it say you can voluntarily move a unit out of Coherency. The word "must" means if you can do it, you have to do it.

That depends on your interpretation of the Hit and Run rules.

If the test is passed, the unit breaks from combat and immediately moves up to 3D6" in a straight line in any direction, ignoring the units they are locked with.

The unit moves in a straight line, could mean a unit that takes casualties in an an assault and subsequently Hit and Runs, they must remain outside of coherency. It could be considered involuntary movement, as the unit has to move in a straight line (not the models), and thus cannot shift and jockey to reach coherency.

excellent catch winterman. i guess you could add *errata the Hit and Run rules* as item 101 on GW's To-Do List.

open interpretation is one thing, this 'coherency' thing is getting out of hand. it all reminds me of english class back in 6th grade...

Go to the bathroom. = You go to the bathroom.
If the test is passed, the unit breaks from combat and immediately moves up to 3d6" in a straight line in any direction, ignoring the units they are locked with. =
If the test is passed, the unit breaks from combat and immediately moves up to 3d6" in a straight line in any diretion, ignoring the units they are locked with and within coherency of eachother at the end of the hit and run move.

You could get more technical i'm sure but I'm sure my intention is understood.

this post is not to derail the thread either. it's a means to understand certain choices made during the battlerep.

@thread:

Thanks for feedback (& compliments), guys!

Also, thanks for those who try to point out mistakes (or what they feel are mistakes) in the game. Not all the GW rules are always so clear-cut. Oftentimes, there are always rules that are somewhat open to intepretation. While I like to be as accurate as possible with regards to how the rules are played so as to not mis-represent them to the readers, sometimes, we just need to come up with a gentleman's agreement on how we think a rule should work. In this case, we played the rules to the best of our ability and understanding. But it is good to have other people present their opinions on how a rule works. This way, readers can see and decide for themselves.

For the newer readers, just remember, if you're not sure how a rule works, come up with a solution with your opponent. And if you can't do that, just roll for it. 1-3...I'm right. 4-6...you're wrong.

SabrX wrote:Awesome battlereport jy2 and Reecius!

It's good to see Spyders making becoming popular again. After glancing over the new Necron codex, I'm surprised how inexpensive Canoptek Spyders are in points. It reminds me of the Nids Tervigons spam tactic, but with more models and built in anti-vehicle mech mechanism.

GK Paladins would have been more effective if it weren't for the gloom prism. Other than that, they performed well, but were overwhelmed by the scarab hive machine.

Well played both of you. Thanks for sharing!

Spyders & scarabs are the new vendettas, the new hive guards, the new psyfleman dreads....just a very good and efficient combo overall. You're going to be seeing a lot of them in competitive necron lists.

There is much debate on whether the gloom prism affects NFW or not, but that's why you and your opponent need to agree on how they work in the first place. In our battle, I was ok with it affecting my NFW, though that ended up hurting me. Maybe I should have left Draigo with the unit and sent my dreadknight after his grot-squad on his objective instead.

winterman wrote:

No where in there does it say you can voluntarily move a unit out of Coherency. The word "must" means if you can do it, you have to do it.

That depends on your interpretation of the Hit and Run rules.

If the test is passed, the unit breaks from combat and immediately moves up to 3D6" in a straight line in any direction, ignoring the units they are locked with.

The unit moves in a straight line, could mean a unit that takes casualties in an an assault and subsequently Hit and Runs, they must remain outside of coherency. It could be considered involuntary movement, as the unit has to move in a straight line (not the models), and thus cannot shift and jockey to reach coherency.

Moves up to 3d6, that suggests you do not have to move the entire distance, hence you need to place them in coherency because it is possible to do so.

Red Corsair,

I'm pretty sure Winterman understands what people expect from unit coherency, my guess is that he's pointing out that inside the Squad Coherency Rules Section, there is mention of instances when squad coherency is not required.

I'm also pretty sure he's eluding to the fact that the Hit and Run move might fall under that exception. To date, there is no official ruling and under RAW, you could actually spread them out all over the place (as long as you moved them in an imagionary straight line).

These instances of "grey area rules" are what are drawing me to the necron battlereps. As they are the primary rule breakers ATM. I think it was very well handled with Reece and JY2, even if I didn't agree with them 100% on their rulings. I think that's what made it a good battlerep.

Reecius wrote:
I eagerly await a ruling from the INAT FAQ about the gloom prism as that makes a huge difference in how you play the list.

If you look at the collection of rulings regarding anti-psychic abilities in the INAT (which are all hyperlinked together) you can read between the lines and see how we've ruled the Nemesis Force Weapon's ability.

Since it seems to affect the Grey Knight unit using it (as opposed to a normal force weapon ability which targets a specific enemy model) it all depends on how the particular anti-psychic ability works.

If the ability works on any psychic power that the model(s) are in the 'area of affect of' (like the Black Templar Vow), then this would certainly apply to Nemesis Force Weapons.

However, if the anti-psychic ability requires the unit to be the 'target' as Gloom Prism does, then it wouldn't work against NFW, as they don't target enemy units, they effectively 'buff' the Grey Knight unit.


And as for an official INAT update, it sadly won't likely be until after X-Mas, as I'm taking a 2 week vacation and besides its nearly impossible to get everyone together for a call at this time of year.

Ouch....that makes NFW just that much more lethal. Now I'm going to feel bad about grey knight vs scarab-farm matchups.

Does make Purifiers slightly worse though...

Good ruling Yak; I completely agree with the logic behind it!

Overwhelming victory to GKs.

Whats a soladin?

A solo paladin..

Oh cheers bro, out of interest do they work?

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:Oh cheers bro, out of interest do they work?

Sometimes and sometimes you hide the little bugger so you don't give away a kp.

Ha genius

So I posted my thoughts before watching the video, after watching the Batrep, excellent fight!

I think the Draigowing is nastier than the scarab farm, but it was interesting to see two armies so reliant on momentum for their unique builds duke it out mid board all game.

yakface wrote:

Reecius wrote:
I eagerly await a ruling from the INAT FAQ about the gloom prism as that makes a huge difference in how you play the list.

If you look at the collection of rulings regarding anti-psychic abilities in the INAT (which are all hyperlinked together) you can read between the lines and see how we've ruled the Nemesis Force Weapon's ability.

Since it seems to affect the Grey Knight unit using it (as opposed to a normal force weapon ability which targets a specific enemy model) it all depends on how the particular anti-psychic ability works.

If the ability works on any psychic power that the model(s) are in the 'area of affect of' (like the Black Templar Vow), then this would certainly apply to Nemesis Force Weapons.

However, if the anti-psychic ability requires the unit to be the 'target' as Gloom Prism does, then it wouldn't work against NFW, as they don't target enemy units, they effectively 'buff' the Grey Knight unit.


And as for an official INAT update, it sadly won't likely be until after X-Mas, as I'm taking a 2 week vacation and besides its nearly impossible to get everyone together for a call at this time of year.

Thanks for the update, Yak. I do have to agree with you on this one. Regular FW would affect the unit, but (big surprise) GK NFWs are better.

Sorry Jim, if you want a rematch playing it correctly, I'd be happy to do so, as it makes a really big difference.

Reecius wrote:
Thanks for the update, Yak. I do have to agree with you on this one. Regular FW would affect the unit, but (big surprise) GK NFWs are better.

Sorry Jim, if you want a rematch playing it correctly, I'd be happy to do so, as it makes a really big difference.

No worries. Whether we play this matchup again or not is not really that important. What's important is that we both got some good information out of it already. Perhaps the next time we meet, you can test your necron build against my other competitive tournament builds, or you can change up your army to try out different configurations/combinations.

And then there's your Bjorn-missile-wolves versus my Crowe-purifiers rematch that we have yet still to play....

Good batrep. Curious about this though:

jy2 wrote:My dreadknight casts Dark Excommunication so that he won't force weapon himself to death.

What does that have to do with anything? Dark Excommunication only works against Daemonic Gifts.

puma713 wrote:Good batrep. Curious about this though:

jy2 wrote:My dreadknight casts Dark Excommunication so that he won't force weapon himself to death.

What does that have to do with anything? Dark Excommunication only works against Daemonic Gifts.

This is so that he wouldn't force weapon himself to death. I just wanted to waste my psychic power so that I couldn't activate my force weapon.

jy2 wrote:

puma713 wrote:Good batrep. Curious about this though:

jy2 wrote:My dreadknight casts Dark Excommunication so that he won't force weapon himself to death.

What does that have to do with anything? Dark Excommunication only works against Daemonic Gifts.

This is so that he wouldn't force weapon himself to death. I just wanted to waste my psychic power so that I couldn't activate my force weapon.

Gotcha. It's all coming together now.

Gotcha. It's all coming together now.

wait, is it for mind shackle? I'm honestly kind of confused now.

sudojoe wrote:

Gotcha. It's all coming together now.

wait, is it for mind shackle? I'm honestly kind of confused now.

Yes. We played it that if a unit with force weapons get mindshackled, he can be controlled to force weapon himself to death. Thus, by expending a psychic power, I can no longer activate my force weapon as the dreadknight may only use 1 psychic power per player turn,

jy2 wrote:

Reecius wrote:
Thanks for the update, Yak. I do have to agree with you on this one. Regular FW would affect the unit, but (big surprise) GK NFWs are better.

Sorry Jim, if you want a rematch playing it correctly, I'd be happy to do so, as it makes a really big difference.

No worries. Whether we play this matchup again or not is not really that important. What's important is that we both got some good information out of it already. Perhaps the next time we meet, you can test your necron build against my other competitive tournament builds, or you can change up your army to try out different configurations/combinations.

And then there's your Bjorn-missile-wolves versus my Crowe-purifiers rematch that we have yet still to play....

Indeed! Haha, I played like an idiot in that game!