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gorgon wrote:Hmm...cloning...reviving extinct animals...Russian scientists...yep, nothing could possibly go wrong with this.

Orlanth wrote:

Pacific wrote:Actually I think it is a great deal more difficult, hence why as far as we know hasn't been achieved yet. The one scientific team that claimed to have done it in Korea turned out to have been lying, but apparently has since gone on record to claim that he is close to achieving it. The others were that rather eccentric (in polite terms) religious cult, I believe called the Rayliens, who also claimed to have successfully cloned an embryo but their comments have been dismissed by pretty much all of the scientific community.

If something is achievable by science then usually someone, somewhere, will be trying to do it, regardless of any punitive measures or moral judgements that governments try and place on them.

I disagree, cloning is very difficult. it has only been achieved a handful of times and then by well funded teams from major science institutions. Sure some cults might want to clone humans, just as some private groups want their own nukes neither is feasible. In general those who can wont those who would cant. Those organisation that could clone a human, and the shortlist would be very small would know better than to do so, or are linked to a government which would get worried about the idea for one reason or another.
We might draw a line to include top secret guv'ment black labs, but any discussion of those without firm evidence can be dismissed as conspiracy hysteria.

Cloning people would be as easy as cloning sheep. The only reasons it hasn't been done yet are ethical reasons. The process of producing cloned human embryos has already been done, but the intent of that cloning exeriment was to find viable source of embryonic stem cells, not to create an full term human clone. Any lab and all scientists involved in full term human cloning that produces a cloned baby would become pariahs within the scientific community, and it would be a career ending move for everybody involved.

Does a mammoth really differ so very much from other large land herbivores that its re-introduction would cause an ecological disaster? There are plenty of very large empty spaces with nothing much going on in them that mammoths could wander around in without getting into too much trouble.

schadenfreude wrote:

Cloning people would be as easy as cloning sheep. The only reasons it hasn't been done yet are ethical reasons. The process of producing cloned human embryos has already been done, but the intent of that cloning exeriment was to find viable source of embryonic stem cells, not to create an full term human clone. Any lab and all scientists involved in full term human cloning that produces a cloned baby would become pariahs within the scientific community, and it would be a career ending move for everybody involved.

I don't think it is quite as easy, although I agree with your other points (bar perhaps subbing in 'in the west' for where it will be acceptable to clone a human). The gestation period for humans is much longer than a sheep. I think it took 150-odd attempts to make Dolly the sheep, it would be difficult to use a human as a lab rat to go through that kind of progress.

The list of animal species driven to extinction since the rise of Homo Sapiens is vast, but if scientists in Japan and Russia aren't just groping for headlines, that number may be one shorter, thanks to the discovery in Siberia of an extremely well preserved thigh bone. If reports are true, the thigh bone contains viable bone marrow that could make it possible in as little as five years to make a clone of the extinct Woolly Mammoth.

The idea is to clone an embryo using egg cells from a modern elephant and nuclei from the marrow, then implant the embryo into a female elephant, a technique similar to the creation of successful clones made from horses, bulls and most famously, sheep. But before we start planning on Mammoth Burgers for Sunday BBQ, it's important to note the high failure rate of cloning attempts, which typically produce short-lived specimens even when successful. Even accounting for that, success here depends on the presence of biologically active nuclei in the marrow, which has been frozen for thousands of years.

The Wooly Mammoth became extinct approximately 10,000 as the last great ice age ended, and humans migrated into their population zones. However, because they favored extremely cold climates, the furry elephant cousins' remains have been extremely well preserved. The extreme age of most discovered specimens has made recovery of viable genetic material difficult. As reported by MSNBC, Webb Miller, a Penn State genomicist involved with the deciphering of Wolly Mammoth DNA said in regards to the attempt to clone the Mammoth that "it'll never happen." "DNA from a woolly mammoth is a mess. It's fractured into very short pieces, and there's a lot of postmortem DNA damage other than just breakage. The code gets damaged a lot."

Japan's Kyodo News is reporting that the researchers are confident such a sample will be found, and that a joint effort is planned between Russia's Yakutsk Mammoth Museum and Japan's Kinki university. However, if Miller is right, then whatever equipment Kinki university is packing would be unable to stimulate Mammoth reproduction after a thousands-years-long drought, pouring a cold shower on the hopes of millions who long for the chance to resurrect an animal that has long held a place in our imaginations. However, that isn't to say the research could be a wash. Learning more about the genetic code of the Mammoth may help us to understand what drove them to extinction. That information could in turn aide in efforts to salvage current species currently endangered, a fact emphasized by Miller. "I'm personally more interested in keeping the species we have. I'd like to keep tigers around for a while."

Just a thought. Even if the clone dies (which is likely), couldn't they extract more DNA from the clone before it dies and just try to make more clones? Or does the integrity of the DNA degrade to the point where it isn't really useful anymore?

We find mammoth skeletons all the time. There's a completely frozen specimen on display in siberia somewhere. If they wanted DNA, they could go straight to that, rather than a thigh bone. Of course, then we'd be one perfect specimen short...

LOL Kinki university. Couldn't resist.


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ArbeitsSchu wrote:Does a mammoth really differ so very much from other large land herbivores that its re-introduction would cause an ecological disaster? There are plenty of very large empty spaces with nothing much going on in them that mammoths could wander around in without getting into too much trouble.

I don't really think that's a problem. Mammoths are thought to have survived on a similar diet to modern elephants, and we have protected sanctuaries across the US for elephants. It wouldn't be difficult to designate an area in the north (or in russia) for test subjects to monitored in an environment that's similar to the conditions they would have experienced in the Ice Age, I don't think.

there are very few (if any) natural environments on Earth that could support a mammoth, the climate was colder in the mammoth's days, the mammoth's waste fertilized the plants it fed on, helping them to survive in an inhospitible environment. without large, tundra-dwelling mammals to urge the growth of larger plants, the plants died out. The Mammoth's fur would make any environment warmer than tundra unsurvivable. You can't restore one animal to the environment witout replacing an entire ecosystem. I doubt the mammoth will ever exist outside of captivity. I think this is an experiment to prove that we CAN do something, not one that yields many results beneficial to man-kind. Still cool, though.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Just a thought. Even if the clone dies (which is likely), couldn't they extract more DNA from the clone before it dies and just try to make more clones? Or does the integrity of the DNA degrade to the point where it isn't really useful anymore?

The genetic content would continue to age, yes. It doesn't matter though, since they can just get some stem cells from the first one and culture THOSE indefinitely without loss.

We find mammoth skeletons all the time. There's a completely frozen specimen on display in siberia somewhere. If they wanted DNA, they could go straight to that, rather than a thigh bone. Of course, then we'd be one perfect specimen short...

There's a difference between getting DNA and getting totally undamaged DNA. Marrow is very good because it is protected by the bone.

Also, it's not like they have to grind up an entire specimen to get a few cells. They've already taken dna samples from a lot of the frozen specimens for study. The issue is that they've all had gaps in them so far because when things freeze, certain proteins are often damaged.