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I think that is the way it will work but don't quote me on it.

That's a fact about how it works, BF has already stated this.

A still find all this hullabaloo about the new edition a bit funny considering my current status as a FoW player.

I have not once, ever, read through the FoW rulebook. I learned how to play solely from watching others and a bit of coaching and the only problems that come up are the usual special case problems that even the experienced players have to look up.

FoW, at its core, is actually a pretty simple game. Since I started, I've always thought there were improvements that could be made to both make certain aspects more historic, and also other aspects more useful than historic to better fit the sliding ground/action scale.

Vertrucio wrote:A still find all this hullabaloo about the new edition a bit funny considering my current status as a FoW player.

I have not once, ever, read through the FoW rulebook. I learned how to play solely from watching others and a bit of coaching and the only problems that come up are the usual special case problems that even the experienced players have to look up.

FoW, at its core, is actually a pretty simple game. Since I started, I've always thought there were improvements that could be made to both make certain aspects more historic, and also other aspects more useful than historic to better fit the sliding ground/action scale.

Heh. I had the opposite experience. I was being asked for my opinion on rules questions before I ever played a game.

:


But your basic point is correct, imo. That's probably one of the reasons why it's proven to be so popular.

col. krazy kenny wrote:Oh,Great.Go figure,I just got started on playing and just went and got a Hardback rule book and fortress Europe.I hope this does not end up like 40k.Because i am really starting to like this game!

Anyone who currently owns the 2nd edition rulebook can contact their FLGS, provide proof of said ownership and receive a free A5 sized version of the the new rulebook. They did this between Ver 1 and 2 as well, but it was not a complete copy of the rulebook. Supposedly the A5 version will be a complete rulebook this time around.

A bunch of changes are already existant in the new Red Bear and Grey Wolf books in the special rules for various armies. Not sure of changes beyond that.

Skriker

Skriker wrote:

col. krazy kenny wrote:Oh,Great.Go figure,I just got started on playing and just went and got a Hardback rule book and fortress Europe.I hope this does not end up like 40k.Because i am really starting to like this game!

Anyone who currently owns the 2nd edition rulebook can contact their FLGS, provide proof of said ownership and receive a free A5 sized version of the the new rulebook. They did this between Ver 1 and 2 as well, but it was not a complete copy of the rulebook. Supposedly the A5 version will be a complete rulebook this time around.

A bunch of changes are already existant in the new Red Bear and Grey Wolf books in the special rules for various armies. Not sure of changes beyond that.

Skriker

What sort of changes? Minor things or quite significant? I bought the FoW rulebook about 2 months ago typical that i just find out about v3. Surely as the guys who created FoW left GW to start this game, they'd want to avoid the problems surrounding GW's 'money obsession'? Well, i hope so anyway...

You're not looking at entire changes to how the game, turn order, order of operations, and similar significant changes work.

Some notable changes:
- Wheeled mobility moves 12" cross country and 18" along roads. Jeep/Motorcycle mobility moves 24" on roads now.

- Undisclosed improvements to transports to move troops while under fire.

- Lighter mortars get a direct fire.

- Guns at 100mm or larger that historically have good anti-infantry performance (big HE rounds) get the Breakthrough Gun rule, which is the same as the Soviet "Heavy Breakthrough Gun" rule. Infantry, gun teams, and unarmored vehicles hit by a breakthrough gun automatically fail their saves.

- Infantry companies may, at the start of the game, only deploy 1 fully armored tank platoon in a mission with reserves. Motorized can deploy 2. Fortified companies can deploy none. This is to help balance out lists that were infantry in name only, such as taking German grenadiers, but use almost all the points on tanks.

- A full fledged section on terrain and definitions for more terrain types. No exact info, but there should be less arguments over what is what, and all groups will be using the same terrain definitions.

- Shots can hit the turret of a tank instead of the hull if they are firing at the side. Also, while not confirmed, but it's assumed that you have a chance of hitting the hull instead of the turret if you are firing at the side armor on a turret while the hull front armor faces you. So turret facing will have more purpose, instead of most tanks being glorified tank hunters that always point their turrets forward.

- MG Infantry Teams are now RoF 2 when pinned down.

- Flamethrowers now require a firepower after hitting to bail tanks. Just hitting no longer bails a tank and they can no longer destroy tanks. There is a rumor that flamethrowers still stop defensive fire from tanks that they hit.

- If a gun team is gone to ground, it gets a 3+ infantry save instead of 5+.

- Gun teams that start base to base with a tank team in an assault may shoot at side armor instead of rolling an assault skill check.

- Assaults have been change significantly to reduce confusion and make them streamlined. Gone is the concept of daisy chaining independent teams and intermingling units to draw in defensive fire from all over the board. Instead there's effectively an 8" bubble around the assault for defensive fire.

- Planes now automatically range in on targets in the open. However, they only get 1 attempt to range in on concealed targets.

- 5 new missions, including "Surrounded" a mission with no reserves that places the defender in a center band across the short edges, and the attacker comes in on both sides to kill him.

- A full fledged index and table contents. Each major section also gets its own smaller table of contents.

- Undisclosed improvements to HMGs.

Another major rumor is that US Tank Destroyers may send their carbine teams to the rear after popping up the TDs. No confirmation, but others have hinted.

This all sounds reasonable and progressive. I like the idea of turrets having more significance. Be interesting to see how changes to assault work out too.

Anything on changes to vehicle MGs? Or did I miss that?

infinite_array wrote:Anything on changes to vehicle MGs? Or did I miss that?

Nothing known as of yet, although there are suspicions among some of the players on the official forum that BF is going to do something with vehicle MGs.

Mind you, no one actually has any guesses about what exactly that something might be.

I'm hearing that WI 292 has a list of changes. It should be arriving on store shelves very soon.

Shamelessly quoted from a post from "Nick" on the FoW forums. Some changes we've seen, others we haven't.

Not one book but 3 - split into separate rules 308 pages, Forces 100 pages and Hobbies 40 pages books

All wheeled vehicles + Half tracks travel 1.5 x CC on roads

Portee teams with gun shields - now require FP test to destroy from "front"

Individual teams can now double - rest of team unaffected if not shot at

Doubling teams can turn to avoid rough terrain or enemy

Empty transports sent to rear can return

Assaults - def fire from teams within 8" plus changes to who fights (max teams contacted) and what happens at the end

Changes to Recce - not detailed but disengage from assault, arty and compulsory if shot removed

Missions - all teams can start gone to ground

Dig in whilst GTG

Nice big and clear terrain table listing effects - Ground condition (e.g. Dificult), concealment and bullet proof cover

Moving bunker busters cannot target moving vehicles

ROF of moving/pinned down is now 1/2 full ROF (not sure if round up or down)

Improved saves for recce softskins (no detail)

Ignore transport casualties

Forces book contains 13 core Intelligence Briefings for LW Europe (with full orbat diagrams as per a standard army list) so maybe this is in effect your plain manilla lists

Big index

3+ save for GTG gun teams

Some later talk indicates 1/2 RoF for moving is round up, still no confirmation. And it sounds like that affects everything. So vehicle MGs might get toned down. AA vehicles can fire at half RoF on the move, making them more useful. Infantry MG Teams just got pretty deadly if this affects them, so maybe German MG Teams are now worth it?

I think I may have to get my Sturmkompanie.

Anyway now that these have been revealed, kinda hoping the WWPD crew can talk a bit more about V3 since they've seen the full rules.

All this new info is useful for me since I've got a mega battle coming up and I need to decide what to purchase for V3.

eorltheyoung wrote:What sort of changes? Minor things or quite significant? I bought the FoW rulebook about 2 months ago typical that i just find out about v3. Surely as the guys who created FoW left GW to start this game, they'd want to avoid the problems surrounding GW's 'money obsession'? Well, i hope so anyway...

Primarily it is the Russians and the way hens and chicks works with respect to the Red Bear book. They modified it, and because of the modification they changed the price of some vehicles that normally only have a rate of 1 to take into account the modifications and their impacts on such vehicles.

The difference I have seen between Battlefront and GW is that Battlefront actually improves their rules based on player/community feedback when they release a new version as opposed to GW which feels the need to completely re-write the rules every time because the new team has *much cooler* ideas for the game now. I far prefer to buy a new edition of a game that fixes the problems with the rules instead of one that changes the rules so that the original problems go away, but a whole new batch of problems replaces them instead.

Skriker

Vertrucio wrote:

Not one book but 3 - split into separate rules 308 pages, Forces 100 pages and Hobbies 40 pages books

Hey, wait. What?

Skriker wrote:

eorltheyoung wrote:What sort of changes? Minor things or quite significant? I bought the FoW rulebook about 2 months ago typical that i just find out about v3. Surely as the guys who created FoW left GW to start this game, they'd want to avoid the problems surrounding GW's 'money obsession'? Well, i hope so anyway...

Primarily it is the Russians and the way hens and chicks works with respect to the Red Bear book. They modified it, and because of the modification they changed the price of some vehicles that normally only have a rate of 1 to take into account the modifications and their impacts on such vehicles.

The difference I have seen between Battlefront and GW is that Battlefront actually improves their rules based on player/community feedback when they release a new version as opposed to GW which feels the need to completely re-write the rules every time because the new team has *much cooler* ideas for the game now. I far prefer to buy a new edition of a game that fixes the problems with the rules instead of one that changes the rules so that the original problems go away, but a whole new batch of problems replaces them instead.

Skriker

Cool, thanks Skriker. Nothing major i need to worry about yet in regards to my panzer company then. Completely agree with your comments regarding BF and GW's approach to rule updates.