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ph34r wrote:

oni wrote:I have seen however that some makes of dice roll poorly compared to others. I have two sets of GF9 dice, they look cool, but they're only good for Ld tests. A friend of mine has two identical sets of the GF9 dice as well and again, they're only good for Ld tests. Crazy!

So, is this you admitting that you cheat by using dice that roll lower due to their flawed design for tests that you want to roll low on?

Not sure if you're serious or just taking a jab at me...

No, I do not use them at all for anything, they reside within the depths of my closet.

nkelsch, that link you posted http://dicephysics.info/0107.htm says casino dice are fine...

Can someone tell me where in the rules it saids you can only use X dice and not y dice.

It's right next to the one that says I never lose. >.>

Ok just wanted to point out that rolling dice 1000 times may yield a result but for every dice that is roleed the odds are completely reset. If he rolled those same dice again 1000 times the figures could be truly different.

oni wrote:

ph34r wrote:

oni wrote:I have seen however that some makes of dice roll poorly compared to others. I have two sets of GF9 dice, they look cool, but they're only good for Ld tests. A friend of mine has two identical sets of the GF9 dice as well and again, they're only good for Ld tests. Crazy!

So, is this you admitting that you cheat by using dice that roll lower due to their flawed design for tests that you want to roll low on?

Not sure if you're serious or just taking a jab at me...

No, I do not use them at all for anything, they reside within the depths of my closet.

Sorry, I thought that you actually meant you busted them out for leadership tests in game.

If you ever encounter someone who is hesitant to let you use their dice, there's an issue.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:If you ever encounter someone who is hesitant to let you use their dice, there's an issue.

I am not to fond of people rolling my dice, i don't know what you have been touching with those filthy nerd hands!

That aside, if I know you it is fine, but be courteous and ask before you just start picking my stuff up and rolling it around...seriously, that can be annoying...

I also use casino dice, they work as intended, are not bias, they are not wearing down either the models, terrain, or themselves. I dont know any dice rolling tricks, and they roll fair and evenly, they can fail or succeed based on the dice gods wishes. Anyone who complains about them are being babies.

'nuff said

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:If you ever encounter someone who is hesitant to let you use their dice, there's an issue.

Amongst our D&D group, that is an issue. We take our D&D dice very seriously. Never touch another man's dice. That's bad luck/karma/joo-joo!

However, in wargaming, that's not the case. If you're on my side of the table, checking line of sight or something, feel free to grab my dice when you roll.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:If you ever encounter someone who is hesitant to let you use their dice, there's an issue.

Not true at all. There's a lot of superstition surrounding dice. Also, some players just don't like having there stuff touched.

Paranoia Note that I said let, not "chides you after you grab them randomly." Sorry, but minis I understand and dice I do not. If anyone wants to complain about balance in the slightest, sharing dice, or neither side being picky, is the only fair way.

Steel Angel wrote:Can someone tell me where in the rules it saids you can only use X dice and not y dice.

For that matter, show me the rule that says you can't use rigged dice.

...

(Devil's advocate, don't hit me)

daedalus wrote:

Steel Angel wrote:Can someone tell me where in the rules it saids you can only use X dice and not y dice.

For that matter, show me the rule that says you can't use rigged dice.

...

(Devil's advocate, don't hit me)

It says to use six-sided die. Technically it doesn't matter how many faces there are so long as they're all 6.

*batgammon dice*

Damn! I rolled 128 on my leadership again!

Bat gammon? Slices of cured winged rodenty thing? Sounds Deeelicious!

Back OT the only iffy dice i've ever come across is a Spacehulk die that rolls a disproportionate number of 6's. As soon as it was noted the die was retired. As long as both players use the same dice in the same way (ie both using block dice rolled on a tray, or casino dice and a cup, or however you decide to do it) i don't think casino vs chessex should be too much of an issue... just talk to your opponent first and work it out before you start gaming.

daedalus wrote:

Steel Angel wrote:Can someone tell me where in the rules it saids you can only use X dice and not y dice.

For that matter, show me the rule that says you can't use rigged dice.

...

(Devil's advocate, don't hit me)

It's something that doesn't need a rule because all players know that fair dice are an integral part of games.

*Edit* The ol' "forgeting the third page is there" got me. Useless post.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Paranoia Note that I said let, not "chides you after you grab them randomly." Sorry, but minis I understand and dice I do not. If anyone wants to complain about balance in the slightest, sharing dice, or neither side being picky, is the only fair way.

Which, for wargames, I will agree 100%.

For D&D, other player's shouldn't rub their poor karma on my dice!

And never touch the GM's dice. That's just begging for a "random" encounter with a dozen cave trolls...

Surtur wrote:nkelsch, that link you posted http://dicephysics.info/0107.htm says casino dice are fine...

On a felt rolling surface with a cup and/or a bank rolled in a way without influence by the roller. When playing backgammon or craps, they are great. Also, it shows how 29%1s the dice would have to be visibly deformed to an extreme level or easily distinguished as loaded upon minor inspection to roll that biased which shows the basis for all this "OMFG I need precision dice" is based upon a non-scientific article with someone promoting a dishonest agenda... IE: acceptance of casino dice so they can then use rolling techniques to cheat.

The truth is the crap dice are not biased towards 1s, and the minimal bias is spread out enough across all results that it has no discernible impact on the game as long as both players share a dice pool.

I fully support if Tourneys provided dice and forced people to use tourney provided dice. I think it would go a long way to addressing dice cheaters.

nkelsch wrote: ...is based upon a non-scientific article with someone promoting a dishonest agenda... IE: acceptance of casino dice so they can then use rolling techniques to cheat.

Interesting.

I admit that I hadn't taken a step back to look at it from this perspective. I'm not saying that I agree with your conclusion, but I am certainly considering your point.


Hmm....

Several times after reading similar threads I've broken out chessex dice and tested them. For the record, I have an MS in Statistical Theory, which just means I can set up an experiment, figure the Sd and V about as good as someone taking their first class in highschool.) Not rocket science, Just boring.

You're not testing if non casino dice are biased
Your'e not testing is chessex dice are biased
You're not testing if a block of dice is biased

You roll one dice several hundred times to test if that one dice has any bias.

Rolling a block of 36 dice 30 times is different than rolling 1 dice 1080 times.

So far, the 3 chessex dice I tested showed no bias.

However, moving to anectotal evidence, 95% of the gamers at the store say they roll dice badly, and ALWAYS get more 1s. Except for one guy that we all know rolls lucky ALL the time. )

@mikhalia: If you ever have time... would you consider doing something similar to that experiment, but with some these fancy sculptured dice that different companies sell? Maybe they do, maybe they don't but I find it hard to believe that with the seemingly sculpted surfaces those sorts of dice have, that these companies have necessarily taken into consideration balance across all faces.

Just adding to your "anecdotal evidence" jab, I think rolling "badly" really is our memories bias towards rembering negative outcome. Its some instinct to fix in our memory the negative outcomes that befall us and other so as to learn from them. With dice there is no learning, and that I think only causes the memory to further stick in our minds... Whether we lose by our role or the role of the other player its a negative outcome where the mind in some subtle way says "but you did nothing wrong"... and wants to believe something outside of your actions swayed the result. Thus we remember losing rolls and we remember the other guy winning rolls and want to believe on some level that there is a bias against us that exists to almost justify the way our mind has weighted the experiances.

mikhaila wrote:Several times after reading similar threads I've broken out chessex dice and tested them. For the record, I have an MS in Statistical Theory, which just means I can set up an experiment, figure the Sd and V about as good as someone taking their first class in highschool.) Not rocket science, Just boring.

You're not testing if non casino dice are biased
Your'e not testing is chessex dice are biased
You're not testing if a block of dice is biased

You roll one dice several hundred times to test if that one dice has any bias.

Rolling a block of 36 dice 30 times is different than rolling 1 dice 1080 times.

So far, the 3 chessex dice I tested showed no bias.

However, moving to anectotal evidence, 95% of the gamers at the store say they roll dice badly, and ALWAYS get more 1s. Except for one guy that we all know rolls lucky ALL the time. )

Some people might not know what you are talking about with the Sd and the V. Which is Standard and Variance of the dice. If you are setting up this test how are you doing it? You have a box to throw into? Dropping the dice the same way everytime? Would like to hear more about your test but would also like to have more data to assist in the discussion. Hell I might even test it out tonight. Maybe also do another test of how the different dice work on a gravel surface or rough surface.

http://dicephysics.info/0104.htm

http://www.maa.org/editorial/mathgames/mathgames_05_16_05.html

nkelsch wrote:

Surtur wrote:nkelsch, that link you posted http://dicephysics.info/0107.htm says casino dice are fine...

On a felt rolling surface with a cup and/or a bank rolled in a way without influence by the roller.

You did not read your own link. It says "The dice freely fall at least 10 cm and bounce on a level plexiglas surface. "

Your link says absolutely nothing about a bank or a dice cup.

Your link does not support your conclusions.

Further, your link does not say anything about manipulating the roll being easier on casino dice. It's a central component of your arguments in this thread and you haven't posted anything establishing it other than "i know a guy"