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foolishmortal wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:The question is whether it is part of the platoon, which (per the new FAQ) is deployed entire, "in place of" deploying a single unit.

When I read the platoon entry, any transports taken seem to be just as much a part of the platoon as do the infantry squads.

Why? I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just saying you have not yet shown us your rule or reasoning.

.

How about because they are bought from the platoon entry?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

fuusa wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:When I read the platoon entry, any transports taken seem to be just as much a part of the platoon as do the infantry squads.

How?

What wording that deals with transports for platoon squads, in anyway differs from the wording for any other unit in the ig codex???

Where it's bought from. Chimera's for Infantry squad and PCS are bought from the platoon entries, chimeras for anything else are bought from their entires.

fuusa - apart from:

Where the vehicles are bought from (the platoon page)
MUC p92
The FAQ which only considers platoon and non-deicated transports, including dedicated transports as part of the platoon.

It doesn't mean that they are part of the platoon, just that non dedicated transports roll separately. Coming in with the platoon doesn't make the chimeras part of the platoon, it just gives the platoon a wicked sweet car to hang out in.

-cgmckenzie

fuusa wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:When I read the platoon entry, any transports taken seem to be just as much a part of the platoon as do the infantry squads.

How?

What wording that deals with transports for platoon squads, in anyway differs from the wording for any other unit in the ig codex???

It doesn't. If Veterans had a special rule or FAQ answer saying that the entire Force Org entry deploys in place of a single unit, they'd be able to bring their Chimera too.

don_mondo wrote:How about because they are bought from the platoon entry?
MY SNIP.
Where it's bought from. Chimera's for Infantry squad and PCS are bought from the platoon entries, chimeras for anything else are bought from their entires.

But, chimera's are bought from the unit entries of other choices all over the dex and (d-transports from) all over other dexes.
The only rules we have to apply, are the dedicated vehicle rules for reserves and the rules in dow.

What makes a dt different for a unit from a platoon from a unit outside of one???
Where is it? There is nothing.

No chimera is ever bought for a platoon. It's bought for a unit. A platoon may now be deployed as a unit, but it isn't one.

The unit may well belong to the platoon, but the dt rules tells us this doesn't matter in the least.

Beyond fixing the foc category it belongs to and who may deploy in it, there is no-connection between the two.

The "yes" argument seems to stem from "it's different because its a platoon."
No-where do the actual rules differentiate between units and units that are part of a greater structure.

On the contrary, they go out of their way, to limit dow deployment, along with transports, even those bought by a particular unit.

nosferatu1001 wrote:fuusa - apart from:

Where the vehicles are bought from (the platoon page) Dealt with, that's nonsense.
MUC p92 By being able to include several units at a cost of 1 foc slot, that operate and count as seperate units in all respects? That is the exact definition of a company comm sec with a chimera. In your opinion, then, that would allow the ccs to deploy with its chimera???
The FAQ which only considers platoon and non-deicated transports, including dedicated transports as part of the platoon.

As for the last point, you mean the part that allows platoon units to deploy seperately in non-dedicated transports that can only come from outside the platoon?
That is, not deploy as if the platoon were 1 unit?

Back to the platoon, that is, not deploy as if it were 1 unit, in several transports because part of a unit cannot enter a transport?
Which in itself leads to the question, if a chimera is part of a platoon, if one unit is going to embark on another transport, or even that one in question, the chimera must also embark = BROKEN.

The RAW has broken. Stupid, stupid.

The simplistic reading of the faq that the majority favours does not work.
It relies on ignoring existing rules and substituting them for vague assumptions from the faq and their own GAP.

At this point, I think it may be proper, to divulge the armies that I run, so as to assure you, I am not arguing black is blue for personal gain.
I run, in 3000pnts, 3 serpent, rare falcon eldar, partially motorised chaos space marines (most variants) and a mostly footslogging renegade ig (though I now have access to 6 chimeras).

I do not have an axe to grind.
I simply cannot justify, deploying a platoon + d-transports, as it goes against the rules in dow and no-where at all in the faq or dex, it is justified that dt's are immune from the rules, no-where does it say they are part of a platoon.

Someone please answer me this ... which units from the platoon, can deploy in the dt chimera???

1) No, it is not nonsense. Covered that in the 10 page thread. Go there to argue, not the poll thread
2) No, because the CCS has no allowance saying it can - unlike a platoon
3) No, you are again failing at reading the FAQ. The FAQ covers that dedicated transports are part of the platoon. It does not say they are part of the unit. Creating idiotic strawmen an dthen claiming the RAW is broken is an unsafe argument.

Whatever - however stupid it may appear to be able to deploy that many models onto the field, you CAN do so and that is how I will rule it in my next tournament - barring another volte face from GW, of course.

nosferatu1001 wrote:1) No, it is not nonsense. Covered that in the 10 page thread. Go there to argue, not the poll thread.

Erm, you mean what I asked of you earlier, that was later seconded, but I got dragged back in by the bickering???

nosferatu1001 wrote:2) No, because the CCS has no allowance saying it can - unlike a platoon.

Where in the dedicated transport rules does it allow this?
You know those rules that govern units (however many deploy as one) +dt's deploy and not how platoons work, as stated in the faq, where dt's are not mentioned at all.

nosferatu1001 wrote:3) No, you are again failing at reading the FAQ. The FAQ covers that dedicated transports are part of the platoon.

Ummmm, where???

You are inventing stuff. Its all your own creation.
I would agree that it makes sense in a real world setting.
But, then so would letting 2 troops choices deploy in their transports, along with an hq in theirs.
Simple fact is, the rules do not allow this.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Creating idiotic strawmen an dthen claiming the RAW is broken is an unsafe argument.

Crap. You're implementation of it leads to game death, assuming you want to play according to the rules.

If you wish to impose the faq ruling, on a game, in and of itself, you must deploy a platoon in place of a single unit.
Try it with multiple transports, wanting to deploy in say 4 or more of them.
Tell me how you get on.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Whatever - however stupid it may appear to be able to deploy that many models onto the field, you CAN do so and that is how I will rule it in my next tournament - barring another volte face from GW, of course.

I DON'T CARE! Do not impose what may or may not be the motives of others on me.

i AM TRULY NOT INTERESTED IN WHATS BROKEN GAMES WISE OR NOT.
Apologies, caps lock gets stuck on this thing.

I want to know what the rules say, to be armed with how they may be interpreted.
I am an advocate of Culven's sig on warseer.
Understand what it says, so you know how to deal with it.

I am not happy with using tactics based on assumptions and half truths.
One thing I am happy with, however, is expressing my motives earlier, before the nosferatu spite machine started up.

I don't agree with you, you need to say something of substance to make me reconsider.

Also, I am a noob here, but not elsewhere.
I am a veteran of warseer and have spent plenty of time arguing with copper.talos.
He is, imo, frequently wrong, but here, most, that is most of what he says is quite right.

Ps, I doubt he knows who I am, as I use different nicks on different sites.

fuusa wrote:

don_mondo wrote:Where it's bought from. Chimera's for Infantry squad and PCS are bought from the platoon entries, chimeras for anything else are bought from their entires.

But, chimera's are bought from the unit entries of other choices all over the dex and (d-transports from) all over other dexes.
The only rules we have to apply, are the dedicated vehicle rules for reserves and the rules in dow.

This is not correct. The OTHER rule we have is the new rule, the new IG FAQ answer. That's what creates this new situation.

fuusa wrote: No chimera is ever bought for a platoon. It's bought for a unit. A platoon may now be deployed as a unit, but it isn't one.

The unit may well belong to the platoon, but the dt rules tells us this doesn't matter in the least.]

No, I think there is where you're confused. The Platoon isn't deployed "AS" a unit. It's deployed "in place of', or instead of, a unit. The FAQ is telling us that multiple units are being placed when normally only one would. The FAQ tells us which units- all the units within a single platoon. The IG Platoon codex entry lists a bunch of different units which are taken all together under that single force org slot. I can't see a clear basis on which to exclude any one of those units, given that the IG FAQ is telling us the IG player gets to deploy all of them.

"If you wish to impose the faq ruling, on a game, in and of itself, you must deploy a platoon in place of a single unit.
Try it with multiple transports, wanting to deploy in say 4 or more of them.
Tell me how you get on. "

Sorry, what?

The first part is from the FAQ - the entire platoon is deployed IN PLACE OF a single unit. They are NOT actually ever at any point in time ever ever ever a single unit, just deployed in place of one.

So, whats the issue? You have 4 chimera for 4 infantry squads. You deploy all of them, as they are ALL part of the platoon, IN PLACE OF a single unit - so you deploy multiple units in place of a single one.

Please try to make the tone a bit more polite. There's some really unneeded hostility in here.

So, on the assumption that Chimera's do not count as part of the platoon: As the platoon deploys instead of a single unit, could I deploy all of the Platoons Chimeras, as my other Troop choice in DoW? Why or why not? Again, this is based on a (possibly) inaccurate assumption.

I never said I was right, just why it would make sense to me.

Happyjew wrote:So, on the assumption that Chimera's do not count as part of the platoon: As the platoon deploys instead of a single unit, could I deploy all of the Platoons Chimeras, as my other Troop choice in DoW? Why or why not? Again, this is based on a (possibly) inaccurate assumption.

Per the new FAQ, all the units within that platoon deploy together in place of one Troops unit.

If the Chimeras are part of the platoon, then you could use your other Troops unit allowed to deploy something else. If the Chimeras are not part of the platoon, then you'd only be able to deploy one of them as your other allowed Troops unit, as all those Chimeras are all still individually units.

Mannahnin wrote:

fuusa wrote: No chimera is ever bought for a platoon. It's bought for a unit. A platoon may now be deployed as a unit, but it isn't one.

The unit may well belong to the platoon, but the dt rules tells us this doesn't matter in the least.]

No, I think there is where you're confused. The Platoon isn't deployed "AS" a unit. It's deployed "in place of', or instead of, a unit. The FAQ is telling us that multiple units are being placed when normally only one would. The FAQ tells us which units- all the units within a single platoon. The IG Platoon codex entry lists a bunch of different units which are taken all together under that single force org slot. I can't see a clear basis on which to exclude any one of those units, given that the IG FAQ is telling us the IG player gets to deploy all of them.

Here is the clear basis.

A) The infantry platoon is deployed in place of a single troops unit.
B) The Chimeras were bought with PISs and PCSs
C) The precedent is that a DT is not part of the unit it is bought for, it is a separate unit with very specific rules (Ex: about not costing a force org slot and only the bought for troops starting in it)
D) The fact that the Chimera is bought on the same page as the Infantry Platoon does not make it part of the IP. We have the precedent of a rhino being bought on the same page as a TAC squad
E) The NO position does not need a clear reason to exclude the Chimera from being part of the IP. Even if it did, "D" is a good start. The list of IP composition at the top of p96 also needs addressed. Remember, DTs are not a unit upgrade, and even if they were, an IP is not a unit.
F) Which takes us back to square 1. 40k is a permissive rule set. There is clear precedent for not having the DTs as part of the IP in DoW's initial limited deployment. To allow them we would need a solid, non-ambiguous reason.

A) Agreed.
B) Yep. Which are part of the platoon.
C) Sure, of course. The first of those rules you cited also applies to the Platoon Command Section, the Infantry squad, and every other unit in the platoon as well. Multiple Unit Choices.
D) But a Platoon is a totally different animal from a Tactical squad. A Platoon is inherently and always comprised of multiple distinct units. I can't see on what basis you're drawing a line between the Infantry Squad's Chimera and the Infantry squad itself, in terms of one being part of a Platoon and the other somehow not. They're both taken as part of the Platoon entry & Force Org slot.
E) Disagree. The FAQ answer says the whole platoon is placed. That's the permission, from the "yes" perspective.
F) As above.

foolishmortal wrote:
A) The infantry platoon is deployed in place of a single troops unit.
B) The Chimeras were bought with PISs and PCSs
C) The precedent is that a DT is not part of the unit it is bought for, it is a separate unit with very specific rules (Ex: about not costing a force org slot and only the bought for troops starting in it)
D) The fact that the Chimera is bought on the same page as the Infantry Platoon does not make it part of the IP. We have the precedent of a rhino being bought on the same page as a TAC squad
E) The NO position does not need a clear reason to exclude the Chimera from being part of the IP. Even if it did, "D" is a good start. The list of IP composition at the top of p96 also needs addressed. Remember, DTs are not a unit upgrade, and even if they were, an IP is not a unit.
F) Which takes us back to square 1. 40k is a permissive rule set. There is clear precedent for not having the DTs as part of the IP in DoW's initial limited deployment. To allow them we would need a solid, non-ambiguous reason.

Let's break down the wording of the last two sentences for the FAQ ruling,

In addition when making a reserve or outflanking roll, roll once for the whole Infantry Platoon.

So if the infantry platoon is embarked on their transports, they are deployed as part of the "whole infantry platoon" on a single reserve roll. That means that some units that are not embarked, and more importantly, those that are embarked can be deployed on a single reserve roll for the "whole infantry platoon."

Any units in reserve that are embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead rolled for separately.

Now look at the next sentence, Any units in reserve that are embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead rolled for separately. That means that the only time that you roll separately for any unit in the "whole infantry platoon" is when they are in non-dedicated transports. Those two sentences taken together tell us that the "whole infantry platoon" consists of the units listed on page 96 of the IG codex, AND it includes their dedicated transports because the wording "whole infantry platoon" is being shown in this post to include them because the only time we roll separately is when a unit is in a non-dedicated transport. The wording shows that all the chimeras are actually a part of the platoon because we can arrive from reserve embarked upon them because we roll for the "whole infantry platoon" not the infantry platoon plus dedicated transport vehicles. If Chimeras weren't allowed to be placed with a single roll for the "whole infantry platoon", the last sentence would say, Any units in reserve that are embarked upon a transport are instead rolled separately. I feel the wording of the FAQ itself is pretty compelling evidence that transports are indeed part of the "whole infantry platoon."

sigh... I really wanted someone to find a convincing argument for this. Sadly, while I was reading lone dragon's response I came up with a very good NO position argument. Give a minute and I'll edit it in

Edit: more typing...

quickly, a response to Mannahnin

E) Disagree. The FAQ answer says the whole platoon is placed. That's the permission, from the "yes" perspective.

I'm not arguing that the "whole" platoon is not placed. I am debating what is the nature of the whole platoon.

and now for the sad death blow to a very good discussion. An Infantry Platoon has been a MUC for the last several years. As an MUC, the IP and the Chimeras for its PSCs and PISs take up one troops choice in the Force Org. This has not changed and is not being contested (at least by me) The point in question is whether of not the Chimera DTs purchased for the PSCs and PISs are part of the IP. I could not think of a precedent that would clearly answer that question until now.

When an IP comes in from reserves, if it's PIDs are embarked on their DTs, the DT rules bring the Chimeras in at the same time, even though they are a separate unit. If the PIDs or PCS are not embarked on their Chimera DTs, the empty Chimera DTs are rolled for for reserves separately from the IP, even though it has been the rule for the last 2-3 years that an Infantry Platoon is rolled for collectively when rolling for reserves. Thus, there is a clear precedent for the Chimera DTs not being part of the IP. The new FAQ has no clear language to change this.

The rule in question is from p94 of the BRB
"Similarly. the player must specify if any transport vehicle
in reserve is carrying any of the infantry units and/or
independent characters in reserve. If they do, the unit
and the transport wilt be rolled for together and will
arrive together. Remember that a dedicated transport
can only be deployed, and consequently can only be
kept in reserve, either empty or transporting the unit it
was selected with (plus any independent characters)."

foolishmortal wrote:
When an IP comes in from reserves, if it's PIDs are embarked on their DTs, the DT rules bring the Chimeras in at the same time, even though they are a separate unit. If the PIDs or PCS are not embarked on their Chimera DTs, the empty Chimera DTs are rolled for for reserves separately from the IP, even though it has been the rule for the last 2-3 years that an Infantry Platoon is rolled for collectively when rolling for reserves. Thus, there is a clear precedent for the Chimera DTs not being part of the IP. The new FAQ has no clear language to change this.

I think the problem you're forgetting, is that transports are separate units in and of themselves. That's not the point that the people on the pro side of the debate are trying to point out. What you're trying to say is that, just because the unit isn't inside them, that means that they aren't part of the unit when it comes in. Let me counter by asking, is a squad of Melta Vets in a Vendetta the same unit? By your logic in the statement they are the same unit because reserve rolls are made that allow both to come on in a single roll. Putting a unit inside or outside a vehicle with transport capacity doesn't change the fact that they act independently once the game has begun. Remember, reserves come out when the game has already begun, and that is why, unless you are mounted inside you roll separately for unit and transport. At that point they are separate units able to operate independently of one another.

The reserve rules don't dictate whether a transport is part of a unit, it's the wording of the rule that dictates if a transport is part of a unit.

Lone Dragoon wrote:The reserve rules don't dictate whether a transport is part of a unit, it's the wording of the rule that dictates if a transport is part of a unit.

I disagree sir. IMO it is a clear precedent.

A) IP platoons have made a single roll to come in from reserves collectively for the past few years per the IG codex p96
B) Chimera w/ embarked troops have been included in that collective roll. Not because of being part of the IP, but because of p94 of the BRB
C) empty DT Chimeras have not been included in that collective roll, but rather rolled for separately, thus the precedent of DT Chimeras not being part of the IP

edit: I thought of another case we may be able to find precedent on. Al'Rahem's Platoon must outflank. If his platoon includes empty DT chimeras, than they can also out flank. How has that been played for the last 3 years?

edit: lol, a google search for "al'rahem outflank empty chimera" brought up our original 10 page thread. Props to DevianID for pointing this out back on 2012/01/20 23:11:09. We missed the significance of his very pertinent question.

foolishmortal wrote:
A) IP platoons have made a single roll to come in from reserves collectively for the past few years per the IG codex p96
B) Chimera w/ embarked troops have been included in that collective roll. Not because of being part of the IP, but because of p94 of the BRB
C) empty DT Chimeras have not been included in that collective roll, but rather rolled for separately, thus the precedent of DT Chimeras not being part of the IP

edit: I thought of another case we may be able to find precedent on. Al'Rahem's Platoon must outflank. If his platoon includes empty DT chimeras, than they can also out flank. How has that been played for the last 3 years?

First, the Al'rahem thing (at least where I'm from) WAS always been played that if they want the units disembarked, the chimeras still outflank, but enter on separate rolls from the platoon. Now on to the chimera questions.

I'll break this down quick;
1. The rules specifically state that all units not riding in their transports, are treated as separate units for reserve rolls. So, if a unit is NOT in its transport in reserves, they are treated as separate.
2. Refer to the "whole infantry platoon" that I posted earlier. We now have a rule that says the only time we separate units from the platoon is if they are in a non-dedicated transport.
3. As we have the new ruling, there is a change. The precedence no longer works because of the change. If the rule had not changed, the precedence would work, but because of the change everything is on a new slate and the original ruling is out the window.
4. Now that chimeras are part of the "whole infantry platoon" when we roll for everything together, they are included in that rule. So no longer do we have to roll separately for the chimeras and platoons, the new FAQ wording about the "whole infantry platoon" (remember that platoon is the more specific of all units) being deployed on a single roll. Specific overrides general, and the general rule is that All units treat transports as separate units. Specific rule paraphrased down from my other post about the platoon, is that chimeras are part of an infantry platoon and are now treated differently.

Lone Dragoon wrote:First, the Al'rahem thing (at least where I'm from) WAS always been played that if they want the units disembarked, the chimeras still outflank, but enter on separate rolls from the platoon.

I'm sure we can get many different people chiming in with many different ways of how they play this at their local tourneys or FLGS. I was happy when I thought of it because it was a searchable precedent that very likely had come up in previous rulings, thus giving us a precedent for whether or not DT chimeras are part of an IP.

Lone Dragoon wrote:
2. Refer to the "whole infantry platoon" that I posted earlier.

I don't follow your logic on this. Please give me a step by step

Lone Dragoon wrote:
We now have a rule that says the only time we separate units from the platoon is if they are in a non-dedicated transport.

I agree sir. Here is what the new language in the IG Codex update says. To quote...

Page 96 – Infantry Platoon, second sentence
Change to “Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place
of a single unit in missions that limit the number units
that can be deployed. In addition when making a
reserve or outflanking roll, roll once for the whole
Infantry Platoon. Any units in reserve that are
embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead
rolled for separately.”

This says that each IP is deployed in the place of a single unit. I agree, the 3rd sentence seems to be referring to a separating units from the IP (which is coming in collectively) if those units are embarked on non-dedicated transports. What it does not say is that empty DTs are rolled for collectively with the platoon, or that DT's are part of the platoon.

We do have a rule for that on p94 of the BRB
"Similarly. the player must specify if any transport vehicle
in reserve is carrying any of the infantry units and/or
independent characters in reserve. If they do, the unit
and the transport wilt be rolled for together and will
arrive together. Remember that a dedicated transport
can only be deployed, and consequently can only be
kept in reserve, either empty or transporting the unit it
was selected with (plus any independent characters)."

Surely this rule has come up in a GW tournament with an official ruling as to whether or not empty Chimeras are rolled for collectively as part of the IP. Come on TOs out there. Help us out with the reference.

foolishmortal wrote:
I don't follow your logic on this. Please give me a step by step

Reread my post that starts with, Let's break down the wording of the last two sentences for the FAQ ruling,

foolishmortal wrote:
I agree sir. Here is what the new language in the IG Codex update says. To quote...

Page 96 – Infantry Platoon, second sentence
Change to “Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place
of a single unit in missions that limit the number units
that can be deployed. In addition when making a
reserve or outflanking roll, roll once for the whole
Infantry Platoon. Any units in reserve that are
embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead
rolled for separately.”

This says that each IP is deployed in the place of a single unit. I agree, the 3rd sentence seems to be referring to a separating units from the IP (which is coming in collectively) if those units are embarked on non-dedicated transports. What it does not say is that empty DTs are rolled for collectively with the platoon, or that DT's are part of the platoon.

My stance to this is easily seen if you read the post I directed you to above in response to the first quote. By having chimeras included in the "whole infantry platoon" rolls, and deployment rules it actually makes sense (again my logic is from the earlier post, and shows why I believe the Chimeras are part of the platoon). The rule you quoted from p94, is the general rule, meaning that it applies to all units unless you have a rule that says otherwise. Now that the wording has changed (Mind you that part really isn't an FAQ, but an errata meaning it's a complete change of rules), we have a new rule for platoons that is more specific than the p94 wording. Remember, what's more specific all transport vehicles, or Infantry platoon transport vehicles?

Ah, I see where you were going with that. I do still disagree. As I have posted previously, I believe the 3rd sentence is in reference to embarking PISs and PCSs onto non-dedicated transports such as Valkyries/Vendettas. I believe it specifically excludes such PISs and PCSs from being part of the collective roll for reserves. Saying that it implicitly implies the inclusion of DTs into the IP seems to be quite a stretch, especially considering the earlier mentioned precedents of DTs not being part of the unit they were bought for and empty chimeras not being rolled part of the collective roll for the infantry platoon coming in from reserves.

Not implicitly - explicitly only non-dedicated transports count as being separate from the platoon, when they have a platoon member embarked. This is the single "instead" condition. To make DT not be part of the platoon you would have another "instead" condition listed, dealng with empty DT for the platoon. There isnt one, meaning the middle is not excluded - threre is no middle

At this point, we could continue to debate over GW's intent with the 3rd sentence of the new FAQ language, or....

I propose we examine existing rules and ruling for
A) empty DT chimeras outflanking with Al'rahem's platoon
B) empty DT chimeras rolling collectively for reserves with an Infantry Platoon.

If we can find a case where this was the official ruling since 2009, I will happily concede the NO position.

I did find a couple of relevant rulings in the INAT faq, but neither is conclusive IMO.

IG.64A.01 – Q: If a combined Infantry Squad
Outflanks via ‘Stalk the Enemy’, what happens to any
dedicated Chimeras assigned to those units?
A: Normally units outflanking with their transports must
arrive inside them, but since they cannot fit onto their
Chimera a combined Infantry Squad is allowed to arrive
outside of their vehicle(s) [clarification].
Ref: IG.57A.02

IG.64A.02 – Q: When Al’Rahem’s Outflanking
platoon arrives from Reserves, is a single roll made
to see which table edge the whole Platoon arrives
on, or is each unit rolled for separately?
A: One Reserves roll is made to see if the entire Platoon
arrives, but then each unit is rolled for separately to see
which table edge they arrive from [clarification].

These may be instructive, but in the end, they are from the INAT faq which is good, but not perfect.

I said yes, just because it makes sense.

The point of the Chimera is to transport the troops, they are part of the Platoon, as in any Military Hierarchy.

This is not the military, it's just a game with its own rules. A platoon in 40k doesn't have to follow real military platoon structure.

Concerning the faq. The second sentence of the faq can be followed in both cases as

1. with chimeras considered part of the platoon: the units, on foot, in chimeras and empty chimeras arrive together

2. with chimeras not considered part of the platoon: the units, on foot, in chimeras, but not empty chimeras arrive together.

The faq doesn't provide a clear ruling which case is right. You can follow one case or the other and follow the faq's ruling accordingly. The pivotal part is if the chimeras are considered part of the platoon in the first place. Since the faq doesn't provide a clear ruling on this, there should be another clear permission to include the chimera as part of the platoon. The MUC, dedicated transport rules and platoon composition, never give any such permission.

don_mondo wrote:How about because they are bought from the platoon entry?

Where it's bought from. Chimera's for Infantry squad and PCS are bought from the platoon entries, chimeras for anything else are bought from their entires.

Exactly, bought from all-manner of different entries, in exactly the same way, subject to the same rules.

Mannahnin wrote:This is not correct. The OTHER rule we have is the new rule, the new IG FAQ answer.

I think you misunderstand me.
What you need to justify "yes" is a new rule for platoon units to interact with their transports in a unique way, they never did before any differently to any non-platoon unit. The faq does not adress this.

Mannahnin wrote:No, I think there is where you're confused. The Platoon isn't deployed "AS" a unit. It's deployed "in place of', or instead of, a unit.

No, no confusion, just poor wording on my part.

Mannahnin wrote:The IG Platoon codex entry lists a bunch of different units which are taken all together under that single force org slot. I can't see a clear basis on which to exclude any one of those units, given that the IG FAQ is telling us the IG player gets to deploy all of them.

But, I'll say it again, the platoon cannot select chimeras, only the units can.
The way a unit interracts with its dedicated transport, is outlined in the rulebook.
Nothing here has changed.
The reason you don't get to deploy unit transports freely in dow, is because dow + dedicated transport rules say that.

Mannahnin wrote:D) But a Platoon is a totally different animal from a Tactical squad. A Platoon is inherently and always comprised of multiple distinct units. I can't see on what basis you're drawing a line between the Infantry Squad's Chimera and the Infantry squad itself, in terms of one being part of a Platoon and the other somehow not.

Granted, it is different.

But, platoon or not, what you really do have, in rules terms, are "multiple distinct units" selecting "multiple distinct units" in the form of transports.
They do this, in exactly the same way an hq choice would.
They are bound by the same rules, there is no difference.

The "instead" provides a clear case; there is no excluded middle.

The platoon arrives together; instead platoon members not in DT arrive with the non-DT

Good to see the overwhelming majority follow the rules.

At least in this case the poll does seem to be supporting the actual rules.....................