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TheRobotLol wrote:I would say tyranids, because they never argue and work in harmony, and they are very numerous, and seem to be coming into the galaxy with more comming all the time. Also, with their extremely quick adaptations, they will likely corner everyone when they are at the point where they have evolved to become, literally, the perfect killing machines.

This a point for orks not for nids. Even orks are not united they are nigh impossible to kill. When orks land on a planet that planet is swrewed not because of the initial attack but because of spores that are spread in the environment.

Tyranids are really fast at adapting and that is one of their greatest strengths but ask yourself which species tyranids encountered first and adapted to. Was is a human? eldar? tau? or possibly an ork as ork are everywhere. Tyranids have had time to adapt to ork for a long time and still can't find an effective way to destroy orks.

The final thing is tyranids cornering everyone. The thing with orks is that they are drawn to the biggest possible fight but if the biggest fight is the ork next to them then they will fight other ork. Orks gerally view other races as boring so they like to fight among themselves. If tyranids even try to corner ork they will doom themselves to extinction (with the rest of the galaxy, chaos included).

Orks already won the game of survival, other races are just fighting for the second place. Too bad it's worth jack gak.

Langston128 wrote:What race do you think will become the most powerful race in the 40k universe

This question seems poorly worded to me; race world imply a single species which is very different from 'team' as most people seem to be debating, or it could be interpreted as faction which is another debate all together and different from race/species.

If it is intended as faction then I would say Tyranids as the only things that I think could reasonable stand against them would be the C'tan lead Necrons but since they never officially existed in the 41st millennium that leaves nobody.

If it is intended as species the C'tan, Deamons, enslavers, or other incorporeal beings, as they have more power in the weakest of their race then the strongest of the biological beings and can never really be killed.








Edits: Grammar&punctuation

I would say faction because necrons are not of the same faction as csm and IoM is not the same factions as tau, so it depends on the race not the faction.

illuknisaa wrote:

TheRobotLol wrote:I would say tyranids, because they never argue and work in harmony, and they are very numerous, and seem to be coming into the galaxy with more comming all the time. Also, with their extremely quick adaptations, they will likely corner everyone when they are at the point where they have evolved to become, literally, the perfect killing machines.

This a point for orks not for nids. Even orks are not united they are nigh impossible to kill. When orks land on a planet that planet is swrewed not because of the initial attack but because of spores that are spread in the environment.

Tyranids are really fast at adapting and that is one of their greatest strengths but ask yourself which species tyranids encountered first and adapted to. Was is a human? eldar? tau? or possibly an ork as ork are everywhere. Tyranids have had time to adapt to ork for a long time and still can't find an effective way to destroy orks.

The final thing is tyranids cornering everyone. The thing with orks is that they are drawn to the biggest possible fight but if the biggest fight is the ork next to them then they will fight other ork. Orks gerally view other races as boring so they like to fight among themselves. If tyranids even try to corner ork they will doom themselves to extinction (with the rest of the galaxy, chaos included).

Orks already won the game of survival, other races are just fighting for the second place. Too bad it's worth jack gak.

The first contact with the Tyranids was the Imperial Guard outpost on the planet Tyran (how they got the name.) That fleet would be later classified as Hive Fleet Behemoth, Behemoth then invaded the Ork world of Jagga, and a few minor engagements, until the mutual destruction of both on Macragge.

Actually it's hard to say who would win a full Fleet to Clan engagement because there is only two encounters between Orks and Tyranids. The main focus of Tyranid aggression appears to be focused on the Imperium and Eldar.

broodstar wrote:

illuknisaa wrote:

TheRobotLol wrote:text

more text

The first contact with the Tyranids was the Imperial Guard outpost on the planet Tyran (how they got the name.) That fleet would be later classified as Hive Fleet Behemoth, Behemoth then invaded the Ork world of Jagga, and a few minor engagements, until the mutual destruction of both on Macragge.

Actually it's hard to say who would win a full Fleet to Clan engagement because there is only two encounters between Orks and Tyranids. The main focus of Tyranid aggression appears to be focused on the Imperium and Eldar.

Tyran was IoM's first contact with tyranids not tyranids contact with known universe. In the older ork dex it was told that IoM sent out a beacon to fly in one direction hoping to find a place were there would be peace or safe. This was 14 000 years ago. The beacon is still sending faint signals. They are rather orky.

Arturius wrote:The IoM is the most powerful. They're losing, slowly, gradually being worn down by... well, everybody.

Every race in the galaxy is being worn down by... well, everybody. The Imperium is just wearing away faster. Necrons keep waking up, Tyranids keep arriving, Orks keep coming back, Tau, Eldar, and DE are too squirrely to pin down. Chaos exists for as long as emotions run rampant. The Imperium has no safe place and all their cards are already on the table.
Frankly, I don't think the imperium could survive a one-on-one war with any other single race. They're just lucky that all the races are so occupied fighting each other.

Who's currently the most powerful? Orks or Tyranids. Who will be the most powerful eventually? Probably Tau.

Archonate wrote:
Frankly, I don't think the imperium could survive a one-on-one war with any other single race. They're just lucky that all the races are so occupied fighting each other.

What? 1 on 1 Imperium could stomp anyone - even Orks eventually. Reason why are they decaying is politics and nothing more...

Brother Coa wrote:

Archonate wrote:
Frankly, I don't think the imperium could survive a one-on-one war with any other single race. They're just lucky that all the races are so occupied fighting each other.

What? 1 on 1 Imperium could stomp anyone - even Orks eventually. Reason why are they decaying is politics and nothing more...

IoM only has maybe quarter million marines at it's disposal. It took over 10 000 marines (+armageddon) to slow down ghazkull. Without emperor and his 1000 custodians 3 legions and their primarchs would have died in the hands of blackfang.

IoM could go toe to toe with orks if it had loads of custodians and few emprahs. Now they have less marines, less custodians, and no primarchs and a rotting corpse.

The Imperium in terms of overall control. Necrons in terms of technology. Orks & Tyranids tied in terms of sheer numbers and potential to creat meat-grinder wars.

illuknisaa wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Archonate wrote:
Frankly, I don't think the imperium could survive a one-on-one war with any other single race. They're just lucky that all the races are so occupied fighting each other.

What? 1 on 1 Imperium could stomp anyone - even Orks eventually. Reason why are they decaying is politics and nothing more...

IoM only has maybe quarter million marines at it's disposal. It took over 10 000 marines (+armageddon) to slow down ghazkull. Without emperor and his 1000 custodians 3 legions and their primarchs would have died in the hands of blackfang.

IoM could go toe to toe with orks if it had loads of custodians and few emprahs. Now they have less marines, less custodians, and no primarchs and a rotting corpse.

It's around a million marines, actually; but the point still stands.

It's explicit canon that Orks outnumber anybody else. It also appears to be canon that Orks don't have hive worlds; there are mentions of tribes consisting of a few million Orks controlling "entire continents or worlds".

Now; Hive worlds like, say, Necromunda or Armageddeon have hundreds of billions, sometimes trillions, of people living in their hive cities. Ork population density apparently doesn't often go over a billion or so on a world, interpreting what we know liberally. So what does that mean?

It means that for every world the Imperium controls, there are thousands under the clawed, green fists of the Orks. It means that they must live literally EVERYWHERE, on worlds that humanity can't even survive on; of course we knew that already, since Armageddeon is so polluted that humans can't live outside the hives without special protective gear, and Orks cheerfully wander around there without any environmental protection whatsoever.

It means that any Waaagh, no matter where it starts or where it goes, will start receiving reinforcements very, very quickly; because there are ALWAYS Ork worlds close by.

It means that the Imperial Guard is vastly, vastly outnumbered. Every Ork is a combatant; there are no civilians. Only a small percentage of the Imperium, by contrast, is militarized; they need a massive civilian population to support their fighters. Orks don't, they support themselves. And every single one is a soldier.

It means that the Orks already own the galaxy. They have been around since the War in Heaven, and have no intention of ever going away. They live everywhere, they go nearly anywhere, they wage xenocidal wars not for land or survival but for fun.

I'm pretty sure they were created after the war in heaven.

NL_Cirrus wrote:I'm pretty sure they were created after the war in heaven.

Not unless that's been retconned away; the old fluff, at least, was that the Orks were created by the Old Ones to use as weapons against the Necrontyr and Enslavers. They've been around as long as the Eldar have.

The only reason the Ork empires are fragmented, is because there just isnt a reason for them to unit and fight together for once. They think they are the biggest and bestest and the strongest, so they dont jump into fights all together, because they dont have a reason to prove otherwise. Now if one of the factions grew to big in their britches, and started to actually push the Orks back, the WAAGH! would grow until they started crushing the enemies and then go back to their old ways of fighting Orks. Because Orks are the only things worth fighting.

Seems to be mostly between the Orks and 'Nids here.
I have to go with Orks.

NL_Cirrus wrote:I'm pretty sure they were created after the war in heaven.

They were created by the old ones so they cant have been created after the war in heaven as the old ones died out as a result of it.

I think the only real information we have on when they were made is that they were created after the Eldar and before the war in heaven.



As for the reasons why Orks dont unite... IIRC it has something to do with how they are genetically modified. Cant remember the exact wording but im pretty sure it has something to do with their aggressive and brutal nature. No surprise there.

It's interesting. Consider, for a moment, the behaviour of Gasses. A Gas will expand to fill a vacuum, until it is evenly distributed throughout the container.

Now consider a liquid, such as water. That liquid will fill a container as well, but only to a pre-determined volume. If the rest of the container is a vacuum, the liquid will boil off into a gas to fill that extra volume- in essence, it is no longer a liquid, but a gas.

The interaction of Gases and Liquids in a container are rather interesting- the gas will always exert a pressure enough that the liquid will not boil completely away, instead it will push against the liquid, some of it being dissolved in the water, some of the water escaping into a gas. But the pressure of the gas is constant.

Orks are the Gas, while the other races are Liquids. Orks push enough that they have what they need, and no more.

Or, you could look at it as an expression of one of Newton's Laws. For every action, there is an equal and opposite re-action. When you hit something, it's hitting you back just as hard.

That's how Orks act. Responding with equal, but not overt, Force against anything that hits them. Swirling around, so that, though you move Orks completely from one area, they make up for the difference by taking up more volume elsewhere.

In the Grim Darkness of the 41st millenium, one of the basic laws of Nature is a big green Fungoid.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

NL_Cirrus wrote:I'm pretty sure they were created after the war in heaven.

Not unless that's been retconned away; the old fluff, at least, was that the Orks were created by the Old Ones to use as weapons against the Necrontyr and Enslavers. They've been around as long as the Eldar have.

That statement contradicts it's self. The old ones never fought enslavers and Necrontyr at the same time. They fought the Necrons and enslavers.

The Necrons were created after the war in heaven as the war in heaven was the war between the old ones and the Necrontyr, the war the Necrontyr lost utterly and got exiled to the fringes of the galaxy. They then found the C'tan became the Necrons and started fighting the old ones again. The old ones were losing so they made a bunch of psyker races (The orks and jokaero were two that were specifically listed ) which changed the immaterium into the warp and made the enslavers.

So A: Orks were made after the war in heaven .
and
B: They were not intended to fight the enslavers.

NL_Cirrus wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:

NL_Cirrus wrote:I'm pretty sure they were created after the war in heaven.

Not unless that's been retconned away; the old fluff, at least, was that the Orks were created by the Old Ones to use as weapons against the Necrontyr and Enslavers. They've been around as long as the Eldar have.

That statement contradicts it's self. The old ones never fought enslavers and Necrontyr at the same time. They fought the Necrons and enslavers.

The Necrons were created after the war in heaven as the war in heaven was the war between the old ones and the Necrontyr, the war the Necrontyr lost utterly and got exiled to the fringes of the galaxy. They then found the C'tan became the Necrons and started fighting the old ones again. The old ones were losing so they made a bunch of psyker races (The orks and jokaero were two that were specifically listed ) which changed the immaterium into the warp and made the enslavers.

So A: Orks were made after the war in heaven .
and
B: They were not intended to fight the enslavers.

The C'tan were found DURING the war in heaven. There was no period of peace. The war started, the necrons were losing badly, the C'tan offered their services, the Necrontyr accepted and were turned into Necrons, the tides of the war turned, the Silent king realized what he had done and after defeating the old ones he turned on the C'tan.

It was all one big conflict, they are not separate.

Obviously Tyranids.

Oh, sorry I was looking in the old Necron codex, the one that made sense, and was under the impression they didn't change any of the story until just before the "great sleep" and that's when all the fluff went to Nurgle crap.

My mistake

Theres nothing wrong with the new fluff. If anything it makes the Necrons alot more interesting than before. There was not enough room for two "End all existence" races and Tyranids suited the role alot better.

There is nothing in the new codex that doesnt make sense. The old version of the war in heaven was clunky, whereas the new version is fleshed out and makes a whole lot of more sense and frankly, its way more interesting. It actually has twists, has a far more interesting plot and the Necrons can actually think, unlike the old version.

I love me some oldcrons but the newcrons are just such an improvement, atleast to me.


Either way the Orks were created before the war in heaven, perhaps even during it. I cant remember the exact details.

Chaos, Necrons, Orks and Tyranids will be the final races remaining at the end of it all.

Once the Eldar have been eliminated, Slaanesh will have fulfilled its purpose and dissipate. This weakens Chaos, but doesn't put them out of the fight. The Necrons and Tyranids will eventually wipe out the Orks, as much as I wish greenskins could hold out. As long as the Tyranids live, they'll consume all biomaterials, even scouring planets of orks. I think ultimately, it'll come to the Necrons, Nids, and Chaos.

I don't see the Nids finding a way to eliminate the Necrons, and either they'd all eventually be wiped out in this galaxy or eventually withdraw having consumed all organic matter. I give it to Chaos in the end. I don't think the C'tan have the power to eliminate even the Chaos gods that remain once Slaanesh is gone.

Necrons have no biomatter so any conflict with the Tyranids and Necrons will be defensive on the part of Tyranids. I dont know if Chaos even have flesh or if they are just spirits. Anyway, once the Lictors and Genestealer scan the galaxy and don't find anymore biomatter, the Tyranids will move on to the next one.

*COUGH, Grey knights, COUGH*

Well, i see it like this, Chaos - through virtue of being incorporeal gods of another dimension and having an effect as long as their are rampant emotions, Necrons - Due to being *or atleast pre-what is now considered fluff* C'tan powered super machine beings with the gifts of their gods to be awesome, Orks - due to just not being killable without *as stated on the old GW site, and i think the new one, literally resorting to exterminatus, which is useless vs a huge fleet of greenskins, Tyranids - Due to being entirely space bourne, and being nearly without number.

Lastly whether anyone agree's with me *but we all know GW will have them SOMEHOW survive whether we like it or not....* Imperium - MAJOR plot armour, and generally i think personally considering the primarch's arent gone, 65% of them are only missing, with only 35% of them dead *Dorn, sanguinius, ferrus, and i dont really know if you can classify Guilliman as dead, but i think when he sees what's become of his sons he might end it all....or kick them out of it....* You could possibly reason that they would survive until the end. Plus the emperor isn't dead entirely either, he simply requires some defib'ing on an epic scale.

Oh and we all know how GW can suddenly ressurect people from the fluff when they feel like it... Darnath Lysander (Bless his awesome cotton socks of manlyness) anyone? ... So primarchs, even the friggin emperor aren't really impossible to throw back in... sure its a long shot and would require atleast 2 novels and ALOT of explaining... maybey even therapy for alot of HH fanatics, but its not entirely off the board.

---- DakkaWolf

Starchild theory anyone?
Perhaps that was the Emperor's gambit

@b1soul Exactly my point, GW can and does always leave possibility to bring back major characters... or remove them i.e. the C'tan lol

Grakmar wrote:Why is everyone talking about IoM, Orks, or Tyranids? The OP asked which race was the most powerful, not which species or nation.

Again, Orks.

Even if you disclude the specialized Orkoid species, Orks are still by far the most powerful.

It wasn't asked which individual member of each race was most powerful.

Melissia wrote:

Grakmar wrote:Why is everyone talking about IoM, Orks, or Tyranids? The OP asked which race was the most powerful, not which species or nation.

Again, Orks.

Even if you disclude the specialized Orkoid species, Orks are still by far the most powerful.

It wasn't asked which individual member of each race was most powerful.

But, Orks are a species. That species is made up of different races, with different physical characteristics. Clans are described as being set apart, genetically, from one another. So, each race of Orks is probably a different Clan.

Orks are also a race, most commonly represented by Ork Boyz.

Clans are ideological, not racial. Different Orkoid races include the fungus that squigs eat, the squigs that orks eat, snotlings, grots, Orks, and so on.