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And actually, they're all the same Species, if you want to get right down to it. All of them come from the same spore.

Melissia wrote:Orks are also a race, most commonly represented by Ork Boyz.

Clans are ideological, not racial. Different Orkoid races include the fungus that squigs eat, the squigs that orks eat, snotlings, grots, Orks, and so on.

Interesting point...

I guess Orks don't quite fit in our standard definition of "species" unless we want to include all of those things as the same species. Where's a xenobiologist when you need one?

They all fall under orkology.

Tyranids will pass on and devastate everything, the Necrons will be the most powerful race left in the galaxy as Nids just ignore them.

Humans are the most powerful species because they're among the few with the majority of them united under one banner. Further, my feeling is that the combined might of the Imperium against the combined might of the Tyranid Hive Fleets (currently in the Milky Way) would result in an Imperial victory. The problem is that the Imperium suffers more conflicts than any other single faction (except possibly the Tyranids, but they often benefit from such conflicts) and as such is not in a position to wipe out a major faction. Leviathan isn't such a serious threat just because of its numbers, but because it coincides with other major offensives against the Imperium (most importantly, Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade).

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:Humans are the most powerful species because they're among the few with the majority of them united under one banner. Further, my feeling is that the combined might of the Imperium against the combined might of the Tyranid Hive Fleets (currently in the Milky Way) would result in an Imperial victory. The problem is that the Imperium suffers more conflicts than any other single faction (except possibly the Tyranids, but they often benefit from such conflicts) and as such is not in a position to wipe out a major faction. Leviathan isn't such a serious threat just because of its numbers, but because it coincides with other major offensives against the Imperium (most importantly, Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade).

So was sending a good portion of leviathan into the ork territories for fun?

Kryptman has always seemed to hit the nail on the head when it comes to his theories on Tyranid. This said, he found it necessary to divert that swarm away from humanity for the preservation of the imperium.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:
So was sending a good portion of leviathan into the ork territories for fun?

Kryptman has always seemed to hit the nail on the head when it comes to his theories on Tyranid. This said, he found it necessary to divert that swarm away from humanity for the preservation of the imperium.

As I said, the Imperium is fighting off many offensives at the moment. I don't think Leviathan would have had the same success if Armageddon and the Cadian System were not both still under seige, for instance. Leviathan has come at a pretty low point for the Imperium and it's not just it's own power that influenced Kryptman's decision.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:Humans are the most powerful species because they're among the few with the majority of them united under one banner. Further, my feeling is that the combined might of the Imperium against the combined might of the Tyranid Hive Fleets (currently in the Milky Way) would result in an Imperial victory. The problem is that the Imperium suffers more conflicts than any other single faction (except possibly the Tyranids, but they often benefit from such conflicts) and as such is not in a position to wipe out a major faction. Leviathan isn't such a serious threat just because of its numbers, but because it coincides with other major offensives against the Imperium (most importantly, Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade).

So was sending a good portion of leviathan into the ork territories for fun?

Kryptman has always seemed to hit the nail on the head when it comes to his theories on Tyranid. This said, he found it necessary to divert that swarm away from humanity for the preservation of the imperium.

In all probability, Kryptman's diversion of Leviathan has only put off Leviathan's advance into Imperial space. If anything, after that tendril of Leviathan is through withh the Orks in Octaria it will emerge larger and stronger than ever before.

That's not to say Kryptman did the wrong thing though - what other option was there? He's bought the Imperium some time... but then what are the odds of that time being used productively?

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=tyranid+invasion&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=810&tbm=isch&tbnid=aVZYr9W4OWncKM:&imgrefurl=http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Tyranids&docid=-F2cJzocvmrhDM&imgurl=http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/f/fe/Tyranids_incursions.jpg&w=960&h=804&ei=ldg2T5PZB-ih0QWW2OWuAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=184&vpy=272&dur=602&hovh=205&hovw=245&tx=116&ty=80&sig=100838118813075883599&page=1&tbnh=147&tbnw=172&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0

See those tendrils, Leviathan was tiny compared to what the Tyranids can unleash. It nearly destroyed the Ultramarines with the help of the Necrons to defeat a small tendril, what could the entire Tyranid race do? They have destroyed other galaxies and crossed the void, I doubt a few men can stop them, especially as they can recover numbers so quickly.

The entire galaxy is surrounded by the start them. Who knows how far out it extends, this is just the beginning. And finally I leave you with this, what if Terra falls?

phantommaster wrote:http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=tyranid+invasion&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=810&tbm=isch&tbnid=aVZYr9W4OWncKM:&imgrefurl=http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Tyranids&docid=-F2cJzocvmrhDM&imgurl=http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/f/fe/Tyranids_incursions.jpg&w=960&h=804&ei=ldg2T5PZB-ih0QWW2OWuAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=184&vpy=272&dur=602&hovh=205&hovw=245&tx=116&ty=80&sig=100838118813075883599&page=1&tbnh=147&tbnw=172&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0

See those tendrils, Leviathan was tiny compared to what the Tyranids can unleash. It nearly destroyed the Ultramarines with the help of the Necrons to defeat a small tendril, what could the entire Tyranid race do? They have destroyed other galaxies and crossed the void, I doubt a few men can stop them, especially as they can recover numbers so quickly.

The entire galaxy is surrounded by the start them. Who knows how far out it extends, this is just the beginning. And finally I leave you with this, what if Terra falls?

For fun check page 160 in the main hardback rulebook. Then compare it to page 166. Which is bigger?

phantommaster wrote:Tyranids will pass on and devastate everything, the Necrons will be the most powerful race left in the galaxy as Nids just ignore them.

Which race of the Tyrannic species?

And frankly, the Orks are still stronger. Orks have individual initiative and more advanced tech going for them along with a better reproductive system.

Ogryn wrote:Imperium. Although if us Space Elfs become more mighty...

Hehe, I think we'll always be there even when the Imperium is gone.

I'd say Necrons and Tyranids. At least, they'd probably be the last ones. I would say this order of events:

1.- Chaos finally defeats the Imperium. In the process, gains enough power to also terminate the Eldar race and invade the Webway, as well as wiping out Tau and Orks.

2.- Necrons defeat the Warp, using their uber technology, probably making it vanish, or at least destroying the daemons.

3.- Tyranids, in the meanwhile, devour every biomass their encounter.

4.- Finally, only Necrons and Tyranids stand. Then, perhaps Tyranids migrate to another galaxy because they know they don't have anything to win against Necrons. Perhaps the Necrons wipe them out, as they want organic forms again (new fluff). Or perhaps they take Tyranids' bioforms... who knows? We'll be dead long before that XD

IronChaos wrote:I'd say Necrons and Tyranids. At least, they'd probably be the last ones. I would say this order of events:

1.- Chaos finally defeats the Imperium. In the process, gains enough power to also terminate the Eldar race and invade the Webway, as well as wiping out Tau and Orks.

HeheheHAHAAA!!

No.

First off, Orks are way too numerous. There's multiple Empires of Orks out there, each spanning multiple systems. That's without the myriad Space Hulks floating about, that haven't found anything interesting yet. Orks don't fear Chaos, and can't be tainted by it, which negates one of their biggest advantages against everyone except Tau and Necrons. And if Chaos did manage to actually put a significant dent in Orky populations, Gork an' Mork would just come around and smash those uppity Chaos Gods back into their place.

Anvildude wrote:

IronChaos wrote:I'd say Necrons and Tyranids. At least, they'd probably be the last ones. I would say this order of events:

1.- Chaos finally defeats the Imperium. In the process, gains enough power to also terminate the Eldar race and invade the Webway, as well as wiping out Tau and Orks.

HeheheHAHAAA!!

No.

First off, Orks are way too numerous. There's multiple Empires of Orks out there, each spanning multiple systems. That's without the myriad Space Hulks floating about, that haven't found anything interesting yet. Orks don't fear Chaos, and can't be tainted by it, which negates one of their biggest advantages against everyone except Tau and Necrons. And if Chaos did manage to actually put a significant dent in Orky populations, Gork an' Mork would just come around and smash those uppity Chaos Gods back into their place.

Well, perhaps I gave too much protagonism to Chaos, but remember that the other 2 big forces, Necrons and specially Tyranids, are still out there in the meanwhile. Tyranids have already swallowed many orks and assimilated their genes (read the previous Tyranid codex), and Necrons can use them as target practice. I'm not sure Orks would last much. Perhaps much time, but not forever.

I would say it would be the Humans but then again i have to say that it could be the Necrons because there true numbers are unknown and they have tomb worlds all over the place that have yet to be activeated as well as tomb ships and from the history of the Necrons as i remember they had a Empire that was much larger and more expanisive then the Imperium.

Melissia wrote:

phantommaster wrote:Tyranids will pass on and devastate everything, the Necrons will be the most powerful race left in the galaxy as Nids just ignore them.

Which race of the Tyrannic species?

And frankly, the Orks are still stronger. Orks have individual initiative and more advanced tech going for them along with a better reproductive system.

Stronger, perhaps. We don't know that. All that has been said is that it is unclear of how vast the whole Tyranid race really is. All we know is, that they're not from our galaxy.
- Question remains whether or not their better reproductive system transfers to "better serving biomass". But i do agree that growing everything you need from mushroom is better than a need to conquer to expand. But fact still remains, that Tyranids doesn't leave world for the other races to reclaim.

The Orks are far from defenseless. But their lust and need for conflict together with their hierarchy structure doesn't quite support them either.

If Orkz were to unite, then the greenskins pwn.

You know what happened when the Tyranids assimilated Ork genes?

Squigs. And those are Orks, now. Orks assimilated Tyranid genes, right back!

Anvildude wrote:You know what happened when the Tyranids assimilated Ork genes?

Squigs. And those are Orks, now. Orks assimilated Tyranid genes, right back!

I thought biovores were the orkz the nids ate. Also in this debate wouldnt the fact that orkz fight each less powerful then nids? I mean to me a unified front would seem to carry the day over a hypothetical alliance.

Draigo wrote:

Anvildude wrote:You know what happened when the Tyranids assimilated Ork genes?

Squigs. And those are Orks, now. Orks assimilated Tyranid genes, right back!

I thought biovores were the orkz the nids ate. Also in this debate wouldnt the fact that orkz fight each less powerful then nids? I mean to me a unified front would seem to carry the day over a hypothetical alliance.

Thats a speculation. But i believe that the fall of Skarfang suggests otherwise. I'd have a hard time believing, that the Tyranids are incapable of adapting any further than to only produce Biovores from the Ork biomass they assimilate.

squig swarms used to be in both nid and ork armylists.

These days the nid ones are ripper swarms.

I'd say orks. I cant find the quote but there was one in the second edition rules about the mechanicus sending out a satelite to other galaxies 1000 years ago and every galaxy it passed through they recordfed ork radio chatter, leaving them with them disapointing conclusion that everywhere man will go the orks will have got there first.

It was almost 10,000 years ago i think, and just within this galaxy (adrift) but yeah.

No matter where you go Orks have either got there first, or will be there shortly

I wouldn't be surprised if Ork genetics lead to a lot of spore-based weapons and creatures, and that the Orks improve the resilience of the Tyranid assault on the biosphere of a world rather than on battlefield swarms.

Hell, even the Venomthrope could be tuned by borrowing the Ork spore reproductive efficiency though, and building that into the toxic gasses and spores they produce.



One thing that the Tyranids have in their favour in a war versus the Orks is that, hardy as the Ork infestation may be, there is absolutely nothing of value on a world that's been scoured by the Hive Fleets. No water, no atmosphere, massively reduced precious metals etc; even if the Orks could spawn there (doubtful given the lack of atmosphere if nothing else), the odds of them ever getting past the Squigs and Feral stage are pretty low.

I love how everyone assumes that the Tyranids are the 40K universe's big bad and that the Hive Fleets are just the vanguard of a huge, galaxy-eating force.

That's just one of the theories. It's also suggested that the forces that have been sighted are all that remains. Or perhaps more chillingly, they aren't attacking the Milky Way to conquer, in fact they are fleeing from something...

Have the orks been unanimously agreed upon yet?

Miraclefish wrote:I love how everyone assumes that the Tyranids are the 40K universe's big bad and that the Hive Fleets are just the vanguard of a huge, galaxy-eating force.

That's just one of the theories. It's also suggested that the forces that have been sighted are all that remains. Or perhaps more chillingly, they aren't attacking the Milky Way to conquer, in fact they are fleeing from something...

Just the fleets on that map show you that what's reached us is only a tiny bit of it, and the lines aren't getting thinner at the edge of the map.

If they were all out fleeing, from something even they can't handle, I don't think they would have taken it upon themselves to try and eat everything on the way, slowing, and sometimes even completely stopping their progress.