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DarkWind wrote:

oni wrote:Every game system that I know of has the bulk of its mechanics work off of the base for the overwhelming majority of its models.

Yes, absolutely, the base it required.

were talking about a decorated base.

You should only need the model assembled and on it's base. The requirements that armies be painted and base be decorated is BS IMO.

that's not good enough for the neckbeards. they're just little plastic men after all. I've seen people spray their entire armies with krylon fusion so they resemble toy soldiers. did the neckbeards get mad? yes, did they refuse to play? yes. if you refuse to play someone because their army isn't painted/based, or not painted to your liking, it makes you look really bad IMO. I base my models by painting the outer ring goblin green, then base with the modelling snow. it's simple and looks good.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Eilif wrote:
Inventing your own definition for widely used hobby terms does not make you any less wrong.

DakkaDakka remains the only place I've ever heard someone refer to "basing" and mean "with lots of fancy scenery, colors, and terrain". Not once have I met a single person anywhere else that thought of basing as such.

Sorry man, you're still wrong, though I'll admit you're halfway there.

Thee wargaming community uses the term "basing" to refer to two things.

The specific size of the base, as in
"how are you basing those napoleonics?"
"I'm using 20mm squares"

And the the landscaping of the base, (which doesn't have to be elaborate) as in.
"How are you basing your napoleonics?"
"I'm going for a simple field look, green flock with some tufts of foliage"

Admittedly there is some context to take into account., but when people ask how you're basing your models, they aren't asking whether or not you're basing your models.

Eilif wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Eilif wrote:
Inventing your own definition for widely used hobby terms does not make you any less wrong.

DakkaDakka remains the only place I've ever heard someone refer to "basing" and mean "with lots of fancy scenery, colors, and terrain". Not once have I met a single person anywhere else that thought of basing as such.

Sorry man, you're still wrong, though I'll admit you're halfway there.

I'm wrong that I've never heard of it elsewhere? Do you secretly live in my pocket and record my experiences?

*Other*

I don't even care if you've painted it.


Eric

To me a model isn't finished if it isn't based. However, I can't see refusing to let someone play because of it. A bit redic. if you ask me.

Context is key and its missing a bit for the poll so I chose the tourny option. In friendly games, I don't require painted models so no basing effort required for those as I'm fine with playing against the great grey/pewter horde. I personally consider basing part of painting and don't feel my models are finished till I do something with the base. If a tourney or local store requires painted models for play, I'd expect them to include basing to be part of that requirement.

I did a lot of my old Tyranids in a weird brown color, flat, with no detailing or other treatment, and said "It's Mud!"

I have trouble even looking at these models now. I'm still not a great painter, but I've gotten at least a bit better, and try to at least put sand on bases to give them some texture as well as to hide slots or make integrated bases fit in batter.

Only for Tournaments.

*other*

No, a model shouldn't have to be based at all, I do base mine, but that is mainly because 1 - I'm a mediocre painter and the base helps to show what I'm going for. And 2 - I am currently working with a lot of old 2nd Ed metals so the basing helps hide the gaps.

Of course I started when pretty much just buying the model was enough, anything went, I mean a hill could be a book and a tea towel and you could make vehicles out of deodorant bottles, lol.

If the event requires appearance scores, then 3 colors and based means adding a scenic element not being on a base.

If you don't like it, don't participate in the event.

I consider basing a model to be immensely important, as I create my army fluff before I actually start painting. This gets the colour scheme and base planet sorted, which influences the basing of the army.
I also find it easier to paint the bass FIRST then paint the model afterwards, touching up the base if I need to. Then any flock/snow goes on after the whole things painted.
Only then do I consider the model finished

My personal preference is that my models aren't finished until the base is textured and painted. But that's just me.

That said I do get a bit disappointed when I see some lovely painted models and the bases are left plain black or are just given a simple coat of paint. For me it just seems to let the whole model as a piece down. But that's not to say it's wrong.

But this is just my opinion and personal preference. If someone chooses not to texture or paint their bases that then that's entirely up to them. I'm not in any position to tell people what they should or shouldn't do.

For just casual games? If painting isn't required, why should basing be? And I've never heard of a store (outside of GW stores in the UK in the 90's) that required painted models.

For a tournament or league that requires painted and based, then that's the rules. It's up to the player to decide if he wants to play or not.

But for casual/friendly/pickup games, no basing needed.

Eilif wrote:[Thee wargaming community uses the term "basing" to refer to two things.

The specific size of the base, as in
"how are you basing those napoleonics?"
"I'm using 20mm squares"

And the the landscaping of the base, (which doesn't have to be elaborate) as in.
"How are you basing your napoleonics?"
"I'm going for a simple field look, green flock with some tufts of foliage"

Admittedly there is some context to take into account., but when people ask how you're basing your models, they aren't asking whether or not you're basing your models.

This. There's also a classic (mostly coming from the historical wargames community) strain of players who refuse to ever field an unfinished model.

I don't consider a model finished without a textured/painted/modeled base. That being said, I will respect someone else's right to do whatever they want with their own models; they just likely won't be considered "finished" if it's a tournament with paint scoring.

I've played many friendly pickup games against unpainted/unbased opponents, though if given the choice between a pickup game with a painted opponent, or an unpainted opponent, the painted one is usually going to win out. As a rule of thumb I always prefer to bring my nicest-looking models to a game with a stranger; against friends I might bring some unpainted/incomplete stuff that I'm working on.

I consider basing necessary for the model to be complete, but totally optional for gaming. It's really easy, but if someone doesn't want to base them (whatever the reason) I'll still play them.

No, its not needed. However it lookes nice to play against a army that has recived that kinda attention from its owner.

Luco wrote:To me a model isn't finished if it isn't based. However, I can't see refusing to let someone play because of it. A bit redic. if you ask me.

I really hope nobody here thought this was honestly a point of contention. Yes, to myself and many others a model isn't finished unless it is based. However, I'm pretty positive anyone and everyone whose played a wargame has played against an army where at least some (if not all) models weren't complete. A figure doesn't need to be "complete" to see the tabletop for a casual game, it's just nicer when it is. I might come off as a bit of a painting/modeling snob sometimes, but I'll still never say no to someone whose models aren't finished, or they aren't finished to my definition of the term. To assume otherwise is ridiculous.

You either go hard, or you go home. How hard is it to glue something on there? You don't even have to paint it nowadays.

Brother SRM wrote:

Luco wrote:To me a model isn't finished if it isn't based. However, I can't see refusing to let someone play because of it. A bit redic. if you ask me.

I really hope nobody here thought this was honestly a point of contention. Yes, to myself and many others a model isn't finished unless it is based. However, I'm pretty positive anyone and everyone whose played a wargame has played against an army where at least some (if not all) models weren't complete. A figure doesn't need to be "complete" to see the tabletop for a casual game, it's just nicer when it is. I might come off as a bit of a painting/modeling snob sometimes, but I'll still never say no to someone whose models aren't finished, or they aren't finished to my definition of the term. To assume otherwise is ridiculous.

This was exactly the point of contention, SRM. I started the poll because I saw another Dakkanaut claim that he had been asked to leave a store (during a casual play night) because his bases were simply painted black, without any flocking material. I wanted to know if this actually happened anywhere else, be it during casual or tournament play. I like the plain black bases, and while I've never been to a tourney where they required me to glue dirt on my mini, I'd like to know if that's one of those things I need to worry about. There's lots of ridiculous things that happen in games stores/games clubs and lots of ridiculous things that are only rumored to happen. I'm trying to ascertain if this is fact or fiction.

And on a completely off-topic and unrelated note, SRM, when are we going to get to see more of your Crimson Fists? I haven't seen any new ones in the Showcase in a while...(I need my fix.)

Jimsolo wrote:This was exactly the point of contention, SRM. I started the poll because I saw another Dakkanaut claim that he had been asked to leave a store (during a casual play night) because his bases were simply painted black, without any flocking material. I wanted to know if this actually happened anywhere else, be it during casual or tournament play.

My brother has been asked to not use his models in a GW store because he had the trims painted black, though the top was flocked and painted, though this was back in like... 1995? And it wasn't due to them being black, it was due to them not being exactly like the bases Eavy Metal were doing.

I don't see why anyone these days would refuse on the grounds of the base being unpainted when you see so many entire armies not painted, but the world is a big place, and there's bound to be people out there who hold this opinion.

See, Loki, you're the first person I've heard a story like this from who I consider to be a rational, level-headed person. Don't get offended when I ask this, but had your brother done anything that would warrant them trying to find an excuse to ask him not to come back? It's just such a weird reason to ask someone not to play that I have trouble wrapping my head around it. What did they want him to do exactly? Extend the flock all the way down the edges to the table?

My personal preference is that a model isn't finished without some form of texture on the base - or a resin base with additional details, of course. I wouldn't let this preference get in the way of a casual game, however.

At a tournament, the TO's rule applies - at the European Team Challenge Warmachine/Hordes events, for example, the full arm must be painted, and the models *must* be based in order for it to be eligible.

Personally, I've been fine playing against a can of Mountain Dew proxied for a Dreadnought, so it would be just silly if I were to complain about a base not being painted.

Tournaments, I would expect the army to be painted and based, but I wouldn't care if the base was painted or not.

At my home... well, see Mountain Dew example.

Ignoring the stuff about playing and just ansewing the poll, not if it's not based its not finnished. Would i play against an unfinished army is a diffrent question.

I don't think I would ever refuse to play someone who hasn't based their army, but It's always great when people try. Some people come up with the coolest ideas for scenery!

I myself think basing is really fun though! I love brainstorming new and creative themes to fit my entire army. The fact that it's so easy to do is also a big plus.

-Loki- wrote:

Jimsolo wrote:This was exactly the point of contention, SRM. I started the poll because I saw another Dakkanaut claim that he had been asked to leave a store (during a casual play night) because his bases were simply painted black, without any flocking material. I wanted to know if this actually happened anywhere else, be it during casual or tournament play.

My brother has been asked to not use his models in a GW store because he had the trims painted black, though the top was flocked and painted, though this was back in like... 1995? And it wasn't due to them being black, it was due to them not being exactly like the bases Eavy Metal were doing.

I don't see why anyone these days would refuse on the grounds of the base being unpainted when you see so many entire armies not painted, but the world is a big place, and there's bound to be people out there who hold this opinion.

I've heard this was the case at some point with some git at GW making a rule that you had to do your bases this way. I think it ended when some higher ups in GW went in to play a game, their models weren't done that way, and they found out about the rule and declared it to be pretty daft. I think they wanted Goblin Green on the rims of the base or something silly.

Jimsolo wrote:This was exactly the point of contention, SRM. I started the poll because I saw another Dakkanaut claim that he had been asked to leave a store (during a casual play night) because his bases were simply painted black, without any flocking material. I wanted to know if this actually happened anywhere else, be it during casual or tournament play. I like the plain black bases, and while I've never been to a tourney where they required me to glue dirt on my mini, I'd like to know if that's one of those things I need to worry about. There's lots of ridiculous things that happen in games stores/games clubs and lots of ridiculous things that are only rumored to happen. I'm trying to ascertain if this is fact or fiction.

And on a completely off-topic and unrelated note, SRM, when are we going to get to see more of your Crimson Fists? I haven't seen any new ones in the Showcase in a while...(I need my fix.)

I've never heard of anyone getting thrown out of a store but that's too extreme! It's a hobby, and nobody should be thrown out of a store for being less talented in the artistic part of it. I doubt the validity of that story, but you never know!

As for my Crimson Fists, check the link in my sig! I've been running a P&M blog and posting new stuff regularly. I'll post in the showcase once I finish my year long painting commitment!

Having not read 3 pages of people talking, the numbers on the poll are worrying. So many people are fine with empty plain bases? Does no one take time or pride in their models? FFS you spend hundreds of dollars on these things you'd think you would want them to look as good as possible. I mean if looks don't matter, why not proxy the entire game with $.99 chess set pieces on plain bases?

And basing isn't a matter of being artistic. It takes all of 30 seconds to slap some glue and ANY type of sand or flock on a base to make it look worlds better. Anyone can do it with fine results.

I'm not saying I would refuse to play you, as that is childish. But to call a model complete when the base is empty is just wrong.

It's like calling a house complete when zero landscaping has been done. Sure the house is there, functional and painted. But who of you has absolutely no landscaping at their house?

Jimsolo wrote:See, Loki, you're the first person I've heard a story like this from who I consider to be a rational, level-headed person. Don't get offended when I ask this, but had your brother done anything that would warrant them trying to find an excuse to ask him not to come back? It's just such a weird reason to ask someone not to play that I have trouble wrapping my head around it. What did they want him to do exactly? Extend the flock all the way down the edges to the table?

No. my brother was almost a 'model customer' to them in those days. Staff loved him.

They refused anyone trying to play without a gomblin green base, and the only flock the manager allowed was sand painted goblin green and drybrushed yellow, ala Eavy Metal. This rule didn't last long.

Aerethan wrote:It takes all of 30 seconds to slap some glue and ANY type of sand or flock on a base to make it look worlds better. Anyone can do it with fine results.

And it will look worse than if you had left it plain.