Mantic discussion thread

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**biccat**

nkelsch wrote:I am glad the greatest threat to the universe is ratmen in medieval armor who haven't even progressed in civilization technology to make clothing without having to cobble together scraps of fabric. Apparently all something needs to be sci-fi is fantasy with googles.

Except for the "ratmen", isn't that the Orks of 40k?

Unless you consider "they believe it works so it works" to be high-quality fluff.

**Polonius**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Dear Mantic, make cheaper alternative plastics to the GW ones so I can use them in the GW games. Make them attractive and keep them cheap.

That's all I currently want from you. I will give you money if you do this. I will not give you that money if your minis won't scale with theirs (elves...) or if the style is wildly different (orx v orks).

And I'd like more modelling options from the sprues.

Thank you!

So, you want good looking, multipose models that look like GW models?

Sounds like you just want GW to half their prices and double their range (and who doesn't?)

**RiTides**

The more I see of Mantic, the less pleased I am... I'd rather pay more (and it's only slightly more now, even...) and get better quality, than pay their prices and get their quality...

The undead are exceptions, but given that undead are generally easier to sculpt (imo- softer details needed) that doesn't really improve their stock in my opinion.

Had refrained from saying this, but I've been wanting to like Mantic, but I can't. Discounted minis is great... unoriginal ideas and lackluster sculpting, however, kill it for me...

**LunaHound**

Enjoy your GW then :')

we all know the only reason Mantic ( and any other small new company ) piggy back larger companies is for the stability and survival.

Like others said, seems like some of you guys just want GW product at 50% off which is fine, but the dream might never come true /wink

**ArbeitsSchu**

biccat wrote:
nkelsch wrote:I am glad the greatest threat to the universe is ratmen in medieval armor who haven't even progressed in civilization technology to make clothing without having to cobble together scraps of fabric. Apparently all something needs to be sci-fi is fantasy with googles.

Except for the "ratmen", isn't that the Orks of 40k?

Unless you consider "they believe it works so it works" to be high-quality fluff.

It sounds better when you call it Anzion's Theorem of Orkoid Morphic Resonant Mechanics. If you've ever seen Scrapheap Challenge/Junkyard Wars, you might find that sometimes its actually true.

**Agamemnon2**

Well, I know I've given Mantic every possible chance to impress me. I even bought one of their resin models (the !Squat cannon) which ranks as one of the worst sculpts I've had the misfortune to work on in years. Sure, a part of the blame goes to terrible QA, but the sculpting and parts breakdown of the kit are also lackluster and ill-conceived.

If this was the 90s, Mantic would be blowing competitors out of the water. Their weakness is that the expectations of the consumer have moved on in the past 20 years.

**Pacific**

Thought this was a rather thoughtful post by a guy over on Warseer, username of JP1138.

Okay - a lot of people will say I have a vested interest in the success of Mantic Games, and that my comments are always going to be skewed in favour of the company that occasionally pays me to write for them. However, those people obviously don't know me, because I always speak exactly how I feel - a fact that has gotten me into a lot of hot water with the powers that be (and I don't just mean Mantic Games here, but film production companies I've written scripts for; publishers who wanted to release certain novels and online magazines I've written articles for). Sorry, but I say it as I see it and won't put a potential paycheque ahead of integrity.

Right. With that bit of self assessment out the way here is my take on the whole pricing debate.

I do believe the GW aesthetic has turned from the "heroic scale" to the "comical scale". Oversized, disproportionated figures that just. Look. Wrong. At least to me. You may like them and if you do that's great. Nothing wrong with that - for nearly twenty years I loved the GW look, and for certain character models I still do. If I didn't like GW I wouldn't have worked for them for ten years. I still like GW - Space Hulk, Mighty Empires, Advanced HeroQuest, Inquisitor. I still buy GW products - I think their brushes are amongst the best in the world. I am converting the IOB Skaven into Warpath Veer-myn though

Anyhoo, let's play a game. Your GW Orcs against my Mantic Orcs. First game lets use the WFB rules. Next, lets play Kings of War. Maybe two or even three games in the same amount of time... I can tell you we'll have just as much fun no matter which system we played, or what models we used. The game - and hence the FUN - isn't affected by what models you use but by what tactics you as the general employ. The fact I paid less for my army should have no effect on the game whatsoever - unless you are a complete dork - except... a personal satisfaction that in a campaign situation such as Mighty Empires where our armies grow during the course of the campaign, I an afford to buy more troops without selling a few body parts.

That's a JOKE by the way. Lighten up.

Yes, I prefer Mantic Games miniatures. Why? There's a fracking recession on that's why?!! I could buy an Undead army from Games Workshop but for the same price I could eat for a month. Equally, I could buy a Mega Army from Mantic - but I could also make sure I had enough to cover the rent. However, if I want to add a new unit to my Undead, say another regiment (20) of skeletons it will only cost me £13.99 as compared to GW's £31.00. I can justify that expense to myself, spread over a few weeks of saving. I can't justify GW's price. Sorry.

And regards aesthetics, I do prefer the true-scale of Mantic rather than the exaggerated lines of the GW products, but opinions are like butt holes, we all have one, so taste of design doesn't factor as far as I'm concerned. What do I get better value for money from? Well, for me value for money = # of models so that's Mantic hands down.

Anyway, do I like all the Mantic models? No... I was disappointed by the Forgefather/Marauder releases, hoping for unique models. Do I understand the financial/business thinking behind this decision, I think so. Might not agree with it, but I certainly understand it. A new company seeks to expand the wargaming world with a new creation or two in the most economically responsible method possible... I can get behind that.

I have some Dwarfs but they are not my favourite - although they are growing on me, sort of like a fungus...

We need to ditch the pre-concieved notions behind fantastic creations. Just because for the last XXXX years a Dwarf is 3 feet high, and a stunted human form, doesn't mean they can't be reinvented as stocky five feet brick shathouses. Same with the Elves, the Mantic design is a fresh take on an old design.

A lot of the wargaming community need to re-evaluate their definition of the word: "original".

Right. Rant off. Carry on.

Cheers
JP

**nkelsch**

biccat wrote:
nkelsch wrote:I am glad the greatest threat to the universe is ratmen in medieval armor who haven't even progressed in civilization technology to make clothing without having to cobble together scraps of fabric. Apparently all something needs to be sci-fi is fantasy with googles.

Except for the "ratmen", isn't that the Orks of 40k?

Unless you consider "they believe it works so it works" to be high-quality fluff.

Orks have a reproductive cycle which is designed on massive casualties and are a genetically engineered race with knowledge transfer built in to their DNA which makes them actually a threat.

The reason why the 40k universe is so grimdark is the humanoid races simply can't compete with the evil races slowly murdering them and reproducing faster than humans can.

So I see nothing that the ratmen of MANTIC's universe shares anything in common with the orks of 40k. The only way the 8th race is any kind of threat is if they can overcome the inherit limitations of being a mammalian reproductive race. And considering they are just a skaven rip-off, it really doesn't impress me in the slightest.

Good fluff and a cohesive universe people actually give a damn about goes a long way towards selling models. That is why all these knock-off companies who are like 'we don't care about the fluff, just buy our cheap models because they are GW wannabees" have no appeal to me.

And I declare shenanigans when some broom-shaped water-carrier for mantic says 'the models don't matter when you have fun'. How can they claim to be selling models that are great then say the models don't matter because the rules are all that matters?

Sorry... the models do matter and do impact the fun. I enjoy seeing my models which I have had many for over a decade running around in a cool universe and having lives of their own. "I want cheap models, there is a recession" is bullcrap and has no worth to me. I see people who can't even paint what they have and would play with peanuts and Hershey kisses and eat their casualties if people would play with them. They grudgingly buy models because otherwise people won't play with them. And Mantic models are not that cheap... at least not cheap enough to justify the poor quality sculpts.

Frankly all that matters is the models. If they made good models people wanted, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Other model lines make amazing models, people buy them and no one says a word about comparing them to GW. If someone has to make justifications on why I should give the model a chance then the model isn't good enough to be bought.

I like Hero-scale models, I also like SD anime models and I like privateer presses cartoony style models. I also like LotR real scale. A good sculpt is a good sculpt regardless of the style. mantic watercarriers are beating the drum about realistic scale, they are still bad sculpts regardless of the scale or design.

And people love nelson orks... there is a reason there are dozens of 3rd party companies who make nothing but nelson-looking orks. Ork collectors like them.

**Some_Call_Me_Tim?**

RiTides wrote:The more I see of Mantic, the less pleased I am... I'd rather pay more (and it's only slightly more now, even...) and get better quality, than pay their prices and get their quality...

The undead are exceptions, but given that undead are generally easier to sculpt (imo- softer details needed) that doesn't really improve their stock in my opinion.

Had refrained from saying this, but I've been wanting to like Mantic, but I can't. Discounted minis is great... unoriginal ideas and lackluster sculpting, however, kill it for me...

Finally, someone who holds Mantic in the same opinion as me. The only area where I disagree with you is when you say that you "Like" the undead. Sorry, but the skeletons and reapers are just sad, especially when you compare them to GW's latest VC offerings. Mantic seems to be way too devoted to "true" scale models, to the point where their skeletons look silly with their tiny skulls (which are, BTW, somehow scowling-which makes no sense, as bone is typically considered to be rigid, and thus unable to show emotion...).

Sorry I am such a hater.

_Tim?

**biccat**

nkelsch wrote:Orks have a reproductive cycle which is designed on massive casualties and are a genetically engineered race with knowledge transfer built in to their DNA which makes them actually a threat.

The Ork fluff:

They're green because they're full of fungus. When they die the fungus can make new orks.

They aren't technologically advanced, things work for them simply because they think they should work.

Orks all have the same technology, the knowledge is embedded in their DNA.

Everything else is post-hoc.

Sure, put all together and extrapolated out a bit, it actually sounds pretty reasonable. But the basic fluff - which is what you're complaining about with the ratmen - is pretty bland.

nkelsch wrote:So I see nothing that the ratmen of MANTIC's universe shares anything in common with the orks of 40k. The only way the 8th race is any kind of threat is if they can overcome the inherit limitations of being a mammalian reproductive race.

Mammalian reproduction is actually pretty darn good. Ask some Aussies about rabbits and you can get a good idea of how successful rabbits can breed when there aren't a lot of natural predators. But I'm not sure what specific limitations you're talking about.

nkelsch wrote:Good fluff and a cohesive universe people actually give a damn about goes a long way towards selling models. That is why all these knock-off companies who are like 'we don't care about the fluff, just buy our cheap models because they are GW wannabees" have no appeal to me.

GW has had 20 years to establish their fluff and world. To expect the same level of detail from a startup company is stacking the deck.

I see nothing wrong with Mantic selling themselves as a cheap GW knockoff, whether they legitimately are or not. The fact is, GW's miniatures are expensive, often prohibitively expensive.

**brettz123**

spaceelf wrote:Companies do not set out to produce bad sculpts. The problem is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A project can get green lighted, and then the company finds that the gaming public at large does not like it.

It is also important to understand that producing a good plastic model takes experience. This is something that Mantic is acquiring. If we look back at GWs old plastics and metals they were horrendous as well. (See the awful SMs in the current identify this figure thread.)

I think that many of the criticisms of Mantic's dwarves are valid. However, they were one of their first efforts. Their undead look much better, and in some cases are better than GWs. Mantic's Corporation stuff looks cool. This being said, nothing that Mantic has produced thus far gotten me to open my wallet.

While no miniature company aims to release ugly miniatures they still do. The problem is that mantic miniatures are not quality sculpts. They would be average sculpts if this was 1995 and only if you were considering plastic vs plastic. I think there is a place for mantic in the market place and there is no problem with riding the coat tales of other companies. Most miniature companies either do that now or started doing that. I know most of you haven't been collecting miniatures for long enough to know this but Citadel / GW got its start by making generic miniatures for RPGs (ie AD&D). So knocking a company for not having a developed background just like a 30 year old company is a little foolish.

But that still doesn't change the fact that mantic miniatures are subpar even for the price they charge. And frankly there is no excuse for that. They can see what their miniatures are going to look like before they produce them. I mean those dwarves really look bad.

And comparing mantic miniatures qualities to one that is 25 years old isn't a good way of defending mantic quality. That Space Marine is a horrible miniature in a fairly quality range of miniatures while the Mantic dwarves are a poorly sculpted miniature in a range of mostly poorly sculpted miniatures. There is a big difference.

**lord marcus**

brettz123 wrote:
spaceelf wrote:Companies do not set out to produce bad sculpts. The problem is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A project can get green lighted, and then the company finds that the gaming public at large does not like it.

It is also important to understand that producing a good plastic model takes experience. This is something that Mantic is acquiring. If we look back at GWs old plastics and metals they were horrendous as well. (See the awful SMs in the current identify this figure thread.)

I think that many of the criticisms of Mantic's dwarves are valid. However, they were one of their first efforts. Their undead look much better, and in some cases are better than GWs. Mantic's Corporation stuff looks cool. This being said, nothing that Mantic has produced thus far gotten me to open my wallet.

While no miniature company aims to release ugly miniatures they still do. The problem is that mantic miniatures are not quality sculpts. They would be average sculpts if this was 1995 and only if you were considering plastic vs plastic. I think there is a place for mantic in the market place and there is no problem with riding the coat tales of other companies. Most miniature companies either do that now or started doing that. I know most of you haven't been collecting miniatures for long enough to know this but Citadel / GW got its start by making generic miniatures for RPGs (ie AD&D). So knocking a company for not having a developed background just like a 30 year old company is a little foolish. It also makes sense. Games workshop has had 30 odd years, mantic has had 3.

But that still doesn't change the fact that mantic miniatures are subpar even for the price they charge. And frankly there is no excuse for that. They can see what their miniatures are going to look like before they produce them. I mean those dwarves really look bad. in your opinion

And comparing mantic miniatures qualities to one that is 25 years old isn't a good way of defending mantic quality. That Space Marine is a horrible miniature in a fairly quality range of miniatures while the Mantic dwarves are a poorly sculpted miniature in a range of mostly poorly sculpted miniatures. There is a big difference. He was not comparing them. He was stating that GW made some #$@$-looking mini's (in his rightful opinion) back in the day. you took that statement and turned it into something else.

quoted comments in red and green.

Quality is subjective.

For instance, Mantic's undead are wonderfully casted, with little moldlines = quality.

In addition, there seems to be nothing wrong with the sculpting quality (i.e. no tears or undefined points) therefore they are quality sculpts.

**brettz123**

lord marcus wrote:
brettz123 wrote:
spaceelf wrote:Companies do not set out to produce bad sculpts. The problem is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A project can get green lighted, and then the company finds that the gaming public at large does not like it.

It is also important to understand that producing a good plastic model takes experience. This is something that Mantic is acquiring. If we look back at GWs old plastics and metals they were horrendous as well. (See the awful SMs in the current identify this figure thread.)

I think that many of the criticisms of Mantic's dwarves are valid. However, they were one of their first efforts. Their undead look much better, and in some cases are better than GWs. Mantic's Corporation stuff looks cool. This being said, nothing that Mantic has produced thus far gotten me to open my wallet.

While no miniature company aims to release ugly miniatures they still do. The problem is that mantic miniatures are not quality sculpts. They would be average sculpts if this was 1995 and only if you were considering plastic vs plastic. I think there is a place for mantic in the market place and there is no problem with riding the coat tales of other companies. Most miniature companies either do that now or started doing that. I know most of you haven't been collecting miniatures for long enough to know this but Citadel / GW got its start by making generic miniatures for RPGs (ie AD&D). So knocking a company for not having a developed background just like a 30 year old company is a little foolish. It also makes sense. Games workshop has had 30 odd years, mantic has had 3.

But that still doesn't change the fact that mantic miniatures are subpar even for the price they charge. And frankly there is no excuse for that. They can see what their miniatures are going to look like before they produce them. I mean those dwarves really look bad. in your opinion

And comparing mantic miniatures qualities to one that is 25 years old isn't a good way of defending mantic quality. That Space Marine is a horrible miniature in a fairly quality range of miniatures while the Mantic dwarves are a poorly sculpted miniature in a range of mostly poorly sculpted miniatures. There is a big difference. He was not comparing them. He was stating that GW made some #$@$-looking mini's (in his rightful opinion) back in the day. you took that statement and turned it into something else.

quoted comments in red and green.

Quality is subjective.

For instance, Mantic's undead are wonderfully casted, with little moldlines = quality.

In addition, there seems to be nothing wrong with the sculpting quality (i.e. no tears or undefined points) therefore they are quality sculpts.

Umm no casting quality does not equal a good sculpt it equals a good cast. They two things are different. You can have a poorly sculpted miniature cast well and you can have a very nicely sculpted miniature cast poorly (just look at finecast!). But absolutely they are not the same thing. Sculpt quality is a matter of artistic talent / technical ability of the sculptor. Mantic sculpts are no where near the quality of say Reaper, the Perrys, Victrix, or Warmachine. Anyone who argues that they are is not looking at things rationally.

Now that doesn't mean you can't find them worth the asking price but don't come on and say that they are anywhere near the quality of top miniature producers because they aren't. Mantic miniautes for the most part have the artistic / technical quality of a 1990s sculpt. If that is what you are looking for at the price point fair enough but don't pretend like they are anywhere near the top of the heap when it comes to sculpt quality. Again I am talking about the sculpt not how well it is cast.

**Polonius**

I have to admit, I like mantic's stuff, but the detail is generaglly less in both quantity and quality over a similar sculpt from a "big company."

The elves (the range I'm most familiar with) had a lot of "fades" between detail sections.

**lord marcus**

brettz123 wrote:
lord marcus wrote:
brettz123 wrote:
spaceelf wrote:Companies do not set out to produce bad sculpts. The problem is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A project can get green lighted, and then the company finds that the gaming public at large does not like it.

It is also important to understand that producing a good plastic model takes experience. This is something that Mantic is acquiring. If we look back at GWs old plastics and metals they were horrendous as well. (See the awful SMs in the current identify this figure thread.)

I think that many of the criticisms of Mantic's dwarves are valid. However, they were one of their first efforts. Their undead look much better, and in some cases are better than GWs. Mantic's Corporation stuff looks cool. This being said, nothing that Mantic has produced thus far gotten me to open my wallet.

While no miniature company aims to release ugly miniatures they still do. The problem is that mantic miniatures are not quality sculpts. They would be average sculpts if this was 1995 and only if you were considering plastic vs plastic. I think there is a place for mantic in the market place and there is no problem with riding the coat tales of other companies. Most miniature companies either do that now or started doing that. I know most of you haven't been collecting miniatures for long enough to know this but Citadel / GW got its start by making generic miniatures for RPGs (ie AD&D). So knocking a company for not having a developed background just like a 30 year old company is a little foolish. It also makes sense. Games workshop has had 30 odd years, mantic has had 3.

But that still doesn't change the fact that mantic miniatures are subpar even for the price they charge. And frankly there is no excuse for that. They can see what their miniatures are going to look like before they produce them. I mean those dwarves really look bad. in your opinion

And comparing mantic miniatures qualities to one that is 25 years old isn't a good way of defending mantic quality. That Space Marine is a horrible miniature in a fairly quality range of miniatures while the Mantic dwarves are a poorly sculpted miniature in a range of mostly poorly sculpted miniatures. There is a big difference. He was not comparing them. He was stating that GW made some #$@$-looking mini's (in his rightful opinion) back in the day. you took that statement and turned it into something else.

quoted comments in red and green.

Quality is subjective.

For instance, Mantic's undead are wonderfully casted, with little moldlines = quality.

In addition, there seems to be nothing wrong with the sculpting quality (i.e. no tears or undefined points) therefore they are quality sculpts.

Umm no casting quality does not equal a good sculpt it equals a good cast. They two things are different. You can have a poorly sculpted miniature cast well and you can have a very nicely sculpted miniature cast poorly (just look at finecast!). But absolutely they are not the same thing. Sculpt quality is a matter of artistic talent / technical ability of the sculptor. Mantic sculpts are no where near the quality of say Reaper, the Perrys, Victrix, or Warmachine. Anyone who argues that they are is not looking at things rationally.

Now that doesn't mean you can't find them worth the asking price but don't come on and say that they are anywhere near the quality of top miniature producers because they aren't. Mantic miniautes for the most part have the artistic / technical quality of a 1990s sculpt. If that is what you are looking for at the price point fair enough but don't pretend like they are anywhere near the top of the heap when it comes to sculpt quality. Again I am talking about the sculpt not how well it is cast.

I understand that. I was differentiating between the two.

as i said, mantics figures have nothing wrong sculpting wise as far as quality and technical faults go. If you think that isn't true, well that is your opinion but it isn't everyone's.

**Vulcan**

Intriguing.

"I don't like the look of Mantic miniatures, therefore they are (descriptor ranging from 'poor sculpts' to 'absolute crap'!"

Well, I DO like the Mantic Dwarf line. Are there places where they could be better? Definitely. But for under a dollar a mini, I don't expect AoW detail. For the price - or even a bit more - they are great, at least in my opinion. Frankly, I think the posing and build of the Mantic Dwarves blows GW out of the water. I want my Dwarves to look like they are trained and disciplined fighters, not a bunch of guys who swill beer for a living and dragged themselves off the couch for the battle. Yes, that's what I think of the GW beer-belly sculpts. Obviously other people think differently, and that is their right.

Your opinion differs. That's fine. But don't berate me for liking my plain vanilla because you love mint ripple fudge with all the extra sprinkles and stuff.

**Pacific**

brettz123 wrote:

While no miniature company aims to release ugly miniatures they still do. The problem is that mantic miniatures are not quality sculpts. They would be average sculpts if this was 1995 and only if you were considering plastic vs plastic.

I could not disagree more. While everyone is entitled to their opinion in terms of what is aesthetically pleasing, to say that the Mantic miniatures are, in their entirety, worse than GW's own is patently false.

Orcs - I actually prefer the miniature on the right. With perhaps the exception of the shield being a molded part of the arm, I think it's a great little sculpt. I'm choosing to collect these rather than the GW ones, simply because I am a fan of the style, that the miniature on the right costs about a third by comparison is a nice (and I don't think insignificant) bonus

And for Imperial Guard, I posted this comparison in the News thread but think it could do with repeating here. As a way of experiment I asked a couple of non gaming friends, which of the models below they deemed to look the most expensive/detailed. I wasn't surprised in the least with the fact that, when comparing the Cadian and Mantic Corporation minis, they chose the latter.

That the Cadian miniatures are 50% more expensive I find mind boggling, and looking at the two by way of comparison it wouldn't surprise me at all if they start to become a more common option for people starting an IG army, let alone playing Warpath.

**brettz123**

Vulcan wrote:Intriguing.

"I don't like the look of Mantic miniatures, therefore they are (descriptor ranging from 'poor sculpts' to 'absolute crap'!"

Well, I DO like the Mantic Dwarf line. Are there places where they could be better? Definitely. But for under a dollar a mini, I don't expect AoW detail. For the price - or even a bit more - they are great, at least in my opinion. Frankly, I think the posing and build of the Mantic Dwarves blows GW out of the water. I want my Dwarves to look like they are trained and disciplined fighters, not a bunch of guys who swill beer for a living and dragged themselves off the couch for the battle. Yes, that's what I think of the GW beer-belly sculpts. Obviously other people think differently, and that is their right.

Your opinion differs. That's fine. But don't berate me for liking my plain vanilla because you love mint ripple fudge with all the extra sprinkles and stuff.

No one is berating you. But as you even said you like the quality at the price. I am talking absolute quality not per penny. If you like the quality you get at the price point (which certainly is better than GW) then you are talking value for your money and not quality of the sculpt. Thats all I am saying.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pacific wrote:That the Cadian miniatures are 50% more expensive I find mind boggling, and looking at the two by way of comparison it wouldn't surprise me at all if they start to become a more common option for people starting an IG army, let alone playing Warpath.

I will actually agree with you that the Corporation miniatues are good quality miniatures. But I think they are the only good quality line that mantic makes. However it is a good start and I think mantic does show some promise for the future. But having said that I still think the rest of their line is substandard. I don't think their orcs look good (of course I think the GW ones are pretty poor too).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

lord marcus wrote:
I understand that. I was differentiating between the two.

as i said, mantics figures have nothing wrong sculpting wise as far as quality and technical faults go. If you think that isn't true, well that is your opinion but it isn't everyone's.

Ok I think we are talking in circles. I am saying that Mantic miniatures are not the quality of the top of the line sculpts from a variety of companies. When I say that I mean that they are not as artistically appealing as say Otherworld Miniatures, Wyrd Miniatures, Perry Miniatures, Victrix Miniatures, GW, or lets say Privateer Press. Now lets take Privateer Press because it is a good example. I do not like the look and feel of Privateer Press miniatures at all but I recognize that the artists that sculpted them is artistically and technically creating a superior product. My like of the look doesn't influence my ability to recognize a quality sculpt.

What you seem to be talking about is the quality of the casting that a company makes. Am I correct in that? The Mantic miniatures I have (all metal) are quality casts no doubt about it. No flash almost no mold lines etc. I would even say at this point when you take finecast into account Mantic is better than GW in this regards. But that doesn't mean that I think that Mantic sculptors are anywhere near as good as the sculptors working for the companies above.

Now having said all of that you may still feel, because of the price difference, that you are getting better value for your money. That is a matter of preference and it is the niche that Mantic is looking to take a hold of. Nothing wrong with that but I don't think you can honestly look at the average mantic sculpt and compare it favorably to a top quality miniature from another company.

**lord marcus**

brettz123 wrote:

lord marcus wrote:
I understand that. I was differentiating between the two.

as i said, mantics figures have nothing wrong sculpting wise as far as quality and technical faults go. If you think that isn't true, well that is your opinion but it isn't everyone's.

Ok I think we are talking in circles. I am saying that Mantic miniatures are not the quality of the top of the line sculpts from a variety of companies. When I say that I mean that they are not as artistically appealing as say Otherworld Miniatures, Wyrd Miniatures, Perry Miniatures, Victrix Miniatures, GW, or lets say Privateer Press. key point relating to my reply. Now lets take Privateer Press because it is a good example. I do not like the look and feel of Privateer Press miniatures at all but I recognize that the artists that sculpted them is artistically and technically creating a superior product. My like of the look doesn't influence my ability to recognize a quality sculpt.

What you seem to be talking about is the quality of the casting that a company makes. Am I correct in that? The Mantic miniatures I have (all metal) are quality casts no doubt about it. No flash almost no mold lines etc. I would even say at this point when you take finecast into account Mantic is better than GW in this regards. But that doesn't mean that I think that Mantic sculptors are anywhere near as good as the sculptors working for the companies above.

Now having said all of that you may still feel, because of the price difference, that you are getting better value for your money. That is a matter of preference and it is the niche that Mantic is looking to take a hold of. Nothing wrong with that but I don't think you can honestly look at the average mantic sculpt and compare it favorably to a top quality miniature from another company.

This is still in your opinion and you should state as such.

And no, i am not talking about just the casting quality. I'm talking about sculpting quality as well, how well the sculptor works with the details. They may not be ascetically pleasing to you, but that doesn't mean the models are not made by skilled sculptors that do good quality sculpting.

**brettz123**

lord marcus wrote:
brettz123 wrote:

lord marcus wrote:
I understand that. I was differentiating between the two.

as i said, mantics figures have nothing wrong sculpting wise as far as quality and technical faults go. If you think that isn't true, well that is your opinion but it isn't everyone's.

Ok I think we are talking in circles. I am saying that Mantic miniatures are not the quality of the top of the line sculpts from a variety of companies. When I say that I mean that they are not as artistically appealing as say Otherworld Miniatures, Wyrd Miniatures, Perry Miniatures, Victrix Miniatures, GW, or lets say Privateer Press. key point relating to my reply. Now lets take Privateer Press because it is a good example. I do not like the look and feel of Privateer Press miniatures at all but I recognize that the artists that sculpted them is artistically and technically creating a superior product. My like of the look doesn't influence my ability to recognize a quality sculpt.

What you seem to be talking about is the quality of the casting that a company makes. Am I correct in that? The Mantic miniatures I have (all metal) are quality casts no doubt about it. No flash almost no mold lines etc. I would even say at this point when you take finecast into account Mantic is better than GW in this regards. But that doesn't mean that I think that Mantic sculptors are anywhere near as good as the sculptors working for the companies above.

Now having said all of that you may still feel, because of the price difference, that you are getting better value for your money. That is a matter of preference and it is the niche that Mantic is looking to take a hold of. Nothing wrong with that but I don't think you can honestly look at the average mantic sculpt and compare it favorably to a top quality miniature from another company.

This is still in your opinion and you should state as such.

And no, i am not talking about just the casting quality. I'm talking about sculpting quality as well, how well the sculptor works with the details. They may not be ascetically pleasing to you, but that doesn't mean the models are not made by skilled sculptors that do good quality sculpting.

Look obviously anything either one of us states is OUR OPINION and intelligent people don't need to state that or have that stated for it to be understood.

**biccat**

Pacific wrote:

I never realized how poor the GW Orc models are. Comparing the two, I have no idea how people could prefer GW's version.

**brettz123**

biccat wrote:I never realized how poor the GW Orc models are. Comparing the two, I have no idea how people could prefer GW's version.

A guess would be because it is what they are used to.

**mattyrm**

biccat wrote:
Pacific wrote:

I never realized how poor the GW Orc models are. Comparing the two, I have no idea how people could prefer GW's version.

Agreed. I was just slagging mantics dwarves off, but that orc on the right is top notch to be fair.

**brettz123**

Yeah I think it is fair to say that their orcs and corporation are step in the right direction. Don't really need any though.

**Polonius**

Those orcs do look cool.

thought to be fair, that GW orc is from the 6th edition starter, and isn't really their best work.

I still don't see what's wrong with Mantic making lower quality, cheaper minis.

**Jeep**

Polonius wrote:I still don't see what's wrong with Mantic making lower quality, cheaper minis.

Agreed. To me, most of them are "good 'nuff!", with some being better than that. While I don't plan on using any of them for my main army (Mantic's ~~High~~ Elves just don't mesh with G-Dub's), one of these days when I expand my dwarves, I'll be using the Mantic line.

**nkelsch**

Pacific wrote:
Orcs - I actually prefer the miniature on the right. With perhaps the exception of the shield being a molded part of the arm, I think it's a great little sculpt. I'm choosing to collect these rather than the GW ones, simply because I am a fan of the style, that the miniature on the right costs about a third by comparison is a nice (and I don't think insignificant) bonus

The GW ork there is from 2000 and is over 12 years old... and it was by no means 3 times the price of the mantic ork, in fact, like all GW orks were easily obtainable en mass for less than 50 cents a model much how the AoBR boyz are now. You can still get dozens of those 6th edition fantasy boyz around.

So purposfully comparing the single pose 12 year old Ork as an example of GWs quality to Mantics supposed best try is laughable as even a 12 year old ork holds its own against Mantic's.

So the Mantic ork isn't cheaper, (and has never been cheaper as we have always been able to build mass orks with GW models for insanely cheap) isn't necessarily better than the alternatives GW currently produces as they have some amazing current fantasy sculpts and the Mantic ork fails in sculpt quality compared to pretty much every other mini maker out there who makes orks outside of GW. 'Being cheap' doesn't give them an excuse to suck. The GW orks were sculpted and cast a decade ago when the technology was worlds different. What's mantic's excuse for making boring, inflexible ugly sculpts?

**biccat**

nkelsch wrote:So purposfully comparing the single pose 12 year old Ork as an example of GWs quality to Mantics supposed best try is laughable as even a 12 year old ork holds its own against Mantic's.

Holds its own? Seriously?

The mantic orc is better proportioned (head, hands, feet), is in a semi-realistic pose (specifically look at the lower body, I'll grant that the upper body pose isn't characteristic of GW) and is wielding an appropriately sized weapon. All of the above are the opposite of characteristics of GW's miniatures. Plus, the Mantic orc doesn't suffer from the "I'm not wearing a helmet so I scream" syndrome.

nkelsch wrote:isn't necessarily better than the alternatives GW currently produces as they have some amazing current fantasy sculpts and the Mantic ork fails in sculpt quality compared to pretty much every other mini maker out there who makes orks outside of GW.

I would buy these Orcs if I were making a fantasy Orc army. They're better looking than GW's sculpts, cost less, and most importantly, are available in plastic (most other companies don't make plastic figs).

**mattyrm**

Whilst I agreed with Bic initially (the right is clearly better) I wasnt aware how old the model is.

It is correct to say that GWs models have gotten far better as well. Some of their newer orcs are awesome. I love the Black Orcs for example.

**brettz123**

mattyrm wrote: Whilst I agreed with Bic initially (the right is clearly better) I wasnt aware how old the model is.

It is correct to say that GWs models have gotten far better as well. Some of their newer orcs are awesome. I love the Black Orcs for example.

Yeah being 12 years old does change things a little bit. Makes me feel old but I forgot how long ago these things came out. It is also a single piece miniature from a starter set which means it is intentionally produced as a simple miniature and not the quality of most of the line. Having said that I think the Mantic one is still nicer but not much nicer.