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No idea how your Generic Wargame Shoulder pads and backpack would look on them. Never tried it at all.

Once I get done with errands today Im going to work on that Knight Praetorius figure and see what I can do with only Chapterhouse kit. (We have bases too, so whoohoo).

I wouldnt mind do package deals with everything, but I can see that as being too limiting for some people. Id rather keep the customize deal going.

Not to mention that these kits actually come with shoulder pads too...

Oh, I know. But I'm lukewarm about the CH shoulders that come with them. I like blank surfaces to put logos on, and some of them are far too busy.

Argh! If I didn't have over 45 Space marines to paint for my current army......I suffer from good ole "Wargaming ADD", and I would hate to add another project.

But.... they might make awesome Black Templars for my bud's birthday!

While I'm all for better proportioned marines, I'm really not a fan of the whole 'True-scale' idea. All it does is speed up the gradual scale-creep that's been ongoing since the 90's.

I would much rather see appropriately scaled Guard, instead of bigger marines.

insaniak wrote:While I'm all for better proportioned marines, I'm really not a fan of the whole 'True-scale' idea. All it does is speed up the gradual scale-creep that's been ongoing since the 90's.

I would much rather see appropriately scaled Guard, instead of bigger marines.

This is so true, considering that guards are 28mm scale then they would all be around 7 feet tall.

insaniak wrote:While I'm all for better proportioned marines, I'm really not a fan of the whole 'True-scale' idea. All it does is speed up the gradual scale-creep that's been ongoing since the 90's.

I would much rather see appropriately scaled Guard, instead of bigger marines.

Truscaling also fixes marine proportions a bit.

Yeah, but at the expense of making them too big.

The point is to make YOUR models a better scale in comparison to your OPPONENT'S models. This is made more sensible because you can make your models bigger but you can't make your opponent's IG/Eldar/etc smaller.

The problem with true scale is that it makes the non-human minis too small. An Ork is capable of ripping off a marine arm so the minis should look like they can do that.

Make smaller guardsmen instead.

The torso and legs look pretty good but the backpack and shoulder pads looks very bad.

Gargantuan wrote:The problem with true scale is that it makes the non-human minis too small. An Ork is capable of ripping off a marine arm so the minis should look like they can do that.

Make smaller guardsmen instead.

The torso and legs look pretty good but the backpack and shoulder pads looks very bad.

As stated thats not actually a thing thats possible to do. Marines are undersized for the games scale and everything else is oversized. Something has to give and since no one is going to buy too small models then the marines have to be "too big" as if that actually has any meaning when the comparative scale is already wrong to begin with.

insaniak wrote:While I'm all for better proportioned marines, I'm really not a fan of the whole 'True-scale' idea. All it does is speed up the gradual scale-creep that's been ongoing since the 90's.

I would much rather see appropriately scaled Guard, instead of bigger marines.

Completely agree. When I painted up a few Dkok models, I realized how big the Cadians really are.


That said, even though they are not for me, those are some wonderful True Scale sculpts CH.

I feel people should also check out Steve Smith's/Warsmith's thread, the guy that created these, for other cool creations too:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/428357.page

I'm wondering how some of the FW terminator pads would look on these?

GW wont be happy now .. XD
cool kit tho

I am not looking forward to seeing these on tabletops. I dislike the concept of true scale marines for the reasons already stated as they are anything but the true scale. At least current true scale projects are a labor of love and interesting to look at as pieces of effort and art. These just become gamebreaking models which are annoying to look at and interact with.

Many truescale models ruin gameplay due to oversized bases and TLOS issues. I wasn't aware humans and orks were 3 feet tall.

nkelsch wrote:I am not looking forward to seeing these on tabletops. I dislike the concept of true scale marines for the reasons already stated as they are anything but the true scale. At least current true scale projects are a labor of love and interesting to look at as pieces of effort and art. These just become gamebreaking models which are annoying to look at and interact with.

Many truescale models ruin gameplay due to oversized bases and TLOS issues. I wasn't aware humans and orks were 3 feet tall.

How the heck are True Scale game breaking?

And even True Scale models should be on the appropriate sized bases.

You're a very conflicted fellow.

nkelsch wrote:I am not looking forward to seeing these on tabletops. I dislike the concept of true scale marines for the reasons already stated as they are anything but the true scale.

So you agree to convert all your non-Marine armies to be smaller? Good to hear.

nkelsch wrote: At least current true scale projects are a labor of love and interesting to look at as pieces of effort and art. These just become gamebreaking models which are annoying to look at and interact with.

So essentially you're admitting that the models themselves aren't the problem.
After all, Labor-of-Love Truescale has the same gameplay issues that Chapterhouse Truescale has.

nkelsch wrote:Many truescale models ruin gameplay due to oversized bases and TLOS issues.

Oversized bases? No, these fit on 25mm bases just fine. I think you're thinking of the Labor-of-Love Truescale Marines that are often found on larger bases.

TLOS is not a problem. As any Tyranid player will tell you, having taller models is a problem. They're harder to hide behind cover. Enjoy shooting your friends' Marines. Not a problem for anyone except someone that decides to buy this product.

nkelsch wrote:I wasn't aware humans and orks were 3 feet tall.

I wasn't aware that standard Guardsmen were 7ft tall and Gaunts were bigger than Humans. Even Eldar Guardians are the same size as Space Marines.

Just let people enjoy their hobby.

Like the standard saying in politics goes:

Don't like it? Don't buy it.

Absolutionis wrote:The point is to make YOUR models a better scale in comparison to your OPPONENT'S models. This is made more sensible because you can make your models bigger but you can't make your opponent's IG/Eldar/etc smaller.

And when your opponent is using Marines...?

Eldar and Dark Eldar don't need to be smaller. They're supposed to be taller than humans. The only ranges that are wildly out of scale are non-marine humans. And even there, for the difference that it actually makes at 28mm, compared to the convenience of having interchangable bits between ranges, I really don't think it's worth the fuss, frankly.

I love "True Scale" marines!

Anything that makes them easier to get, customize and field is OK by me - and will get some of my money too!

And I really do blame GW for basically making 'regular' humans "too big"...

It is kinda funny when you put Imperial Guardsmen next to "actual" 28mm scale humans, like those from Infinity.

insaniak wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:The point is to make YOUR models a better scale in comparison to your OPPONENT'S models. This is made more sensible because you can make your models bigger but you can't make your opponent's IG/Eldar/etc smaller.

And when your opponent is using Marines...?

Eldar and Dark Eldar don't need to be smaller. They're supposed to be taller than humans. The only ranges that are wildly out of scale are non-marine humans. And even there, for the difference that it actually makes at 28mm, compared to the convenience of having interchangable bits between ranges, I really don't think it's worth the fuss, frankly.

Eldar also aren't supposed to be marine height. Yet they are, even unhelmeted. Something is off here, last I checked Eldar aren't eight feet tall. Almost every model in 40k is the wrong scale in one way or another.

Absolutionis wrote:You're a very conflicted fellow.

nkelsch wrote:I am not looking forward to seeing these on tabletops. I dislike the concept of true scale marines for the reasons already stated as they are anything but the true scale.

So you agree to convert all your non-Marine armies to be smaller? Good to hear.

GW sets the scale for GW games. As an unaffiliated model line, these are fine. For play with GWs rules and the way people use self-made true scale, there are issues.

nkelsch wrote: At least current true scale projects are a labor of love and interesting to look at as pieces of effort and art. These just become gamebreaking models which are annoying to look at and interact with.

So essentially you're admitting that the models themselves aren't the problem.
After all, Labor-of-Love Truescale has the same gameplay issues that Chapterhouse Truescale has.

Yes, but I respect someone who spent hundreds of hours converting and sculpting true-scale for the effort they put in.

nkelsch wrote:Many truescale models ruin gameplay due to oversized bases and TLOS issues.

Oversized bases? No, these fit on 25mm bases just fine. I think you're thinking of the Labor-of-Love Truescale Marines that are often found on larger bases.

TLOS is not a problem. As any Tyranid player will tell you, having taller models is a problem. They're harder to hide behind cover. Enjoy shooting your friends' Marines. Not a problem for anyone except someone that decides to buy this product.

I have seen multiple true-scale armies at tourneys who use Dark angels rules so they can count all their 40mm truescale marines as terminators. It causes issues but people make an effort to muddle through because the astounding effort put into making the models.

nkelsch wrote:I wasn't aware humans and orks were 3 feet tall.

I wasn't aware that standard Guardsmen were 7ft tall and Gaunts were bigger than Humans. Even Eldar Guardians are the same size as Space Marines.

Just let people enjoy their hobby.

Like the standard saying in politics goes:

Don't like it? Don't buy it.

Oh, their hobby? last time I checked there is a huge social and game component which involves showing up with reasonable models and sharing the 'hobby' with others. I have found many truescale projects to be unreasonable and unsuited for gameplay and the concept is all around unappealing to me due to the attitude that somehow marine players know whats what with scale. I have no issue with minis being hero scale or super deformed or not able to fit in a rhino or whatever.

If it impacts gameplay with oversized bases, taller marines to give vehicles more cover, able to get better LOS and increased assault distances, then I hope TOs will step in and deal with it.

insaniak wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:The point is to make YOUR models a better scale in comparison to your OPPONENT'S models. This is made more sensible because you can make your models bigger but you can't make your opponent's IG/Eldar/etc smaller.

And when your opponent is using Marines...?

Eldar and Dark Eldar don't need to be smaller. They're supposed to be taller than humans. The only ranges that are wildly out of scale are non-marine humans. And even there, for the difference that it actually makes at 28mm, compared to the convenience of having interchangable bits between ranges, I really don't think it's worth the fuss, frankly.

Your opponent gets better cover saves, and you have a cooler looking army. Sounds good in my books either way. =o]

Nothing better then playing againsted a nicely painted and modeled army. Nothing worse then playing againsted Grey Legion clone @2764785773 =o[


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nkelsch wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:You're a very conflicted fellow.

nkelsch wrote:I am not looking forward to seeing these on tabletops. I dislike the concept of true scale marines for the reasons already stated as they are anything but the true scale.

So you agree to convert all your non-Marine armies to be smaller? Good to hear.

GW sets the scale for GW games. As an unaffiliated model line, these are fine. For play with GWs rules and the way people use self-made true scale, there are issues.

Parden me? So if I want to use other companys models but use the 40k rule set ( actually it would be the other way) i'm doing it wrong?


Wow

Could we please get back to the topic at hand and maybe make a new thread for this topic. I like what Nick has done so please don't get this thread closed.

nkelsch wrote:Oh, their hobby? last time I checked there is a huge social and game component which involves showing up with reasonable models and sharing the 'hobby' with others. I have found many truescale projects to be unreasonable and unsuited for gameplay and the concept is all around unappealing to me due to the attitude that somehow marine players know whats what with scale. I have no issue with minis being hero scale or super deformed or not able to fit in a rhino or whatever.

If it impacts gameplay with oversized bases, taller marines to give vehicles more cover, able to get better LOS and increased assault distances, then I hope TOs will step in and deal with it.

These Truescale Kits fit fine on a 25mm base. The majority of the problems you've stated are nonexistent. This has already been stated. Please stop talking about oversized bases; you're fabricating a problem that does not exist.

I'm also not a Marine player. I hate Marines in general. However, this kit will and may convince me to start a Marine army. I am in no way a "marine player" that knows what's-what with scale.

Taller Marines have nothing to do with assault range.

If your problem with this Truescale kit is that people will use it to hide Rhinos, then substitute an appropriately-sized model. The few millimeters of height are more of a drawback in terms of cover anyways.

If your issue with these models is hardcore play in your hardcore tournaments, I agree. These models have no place in a Hardcore tournament. These models are for Modelers.
If you want strict tournament play with negligible hobby element, play Magic the Gathering. I play it myself and admit it's a really great competitive game. Miniatures games aren't exactly compatible with competitive play.

Oh, their hobby? last time I checked there is a huge social and game component which involves showing up with reasonable models and sharing the 'hobby' with others. I have found many truescale projects to be unreasonable and unsuited for gameplay and the concept is all around unappealing to me due to the attitude that somehow marine players know whats what with scale. I have no issue with minis being hero scale or super deformed or not able to fit in a rhino or whatever.

You sound absolutely ridiculous. So people shouldn't use models that GW doesn't produce? What happens when GW doesn't produce the model for something? These are somehow unbalancing? Why? Because they make the players army using them worse by denying them cover and making it significantly easier to draw LOS on them?

Your arguments make no sense. You're throwing a tantrum for no logical reason.

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:Could we please get back to the topic at hand and maybe make a new thread for this topic.

<this is an excellent suggestion; please discuss the perils of insidious true-scale modeling somewhere else; further posts on that topic will be redacted>

I don't have an actual GW shop in a 100 mile radius(I've checked). So I have absolutely no worries about whether tru-scale marines would be poo-pooed or kicked out of a tournament if I want to paint some up.

I know this skirts the rules of Janthkin's post above, but to have an issue with these models being taller than standard SM would require a ban of all basing materials that are thicker than grass flocking/sand, because they also make the mini taller.

But I think they are cool, and like personalized bases, simply add another outlet for creativity in this hobby, so good-good. The only worry I have is GW having another reason for coming after ChapterHouse because they look so much like Space Marines, but I hope that never happens.

I like the idea of using them as models for RPG games. Then their height makes them even more unique. Like how much bigger Artemis is from the Inquisitor line.

Not really my thing but it's a good looking kit that I'm sure will sell well and fill a niche in the market.
I think the fluff is a bit much, considering how close these are to gws miniatures but that's for chs to decide.

LOL on that note, if anyone wants to write a good background piece, let me know I can reward in product.

Oh yeah, also looking for a moderator for our new boards, experience is critical as I dont even know how to set the forum up..

Nick

"Knights Praetorius serve under the high lords of the galactic west, acting as both guards and enforcers for their lords.
Recruited for the natural skill in both ranged and close quarter fighting they are given the finest equipment and armour available to carry out their duties."

Done

raincity wrote:"Knights Praetorius serve under the high lords of the galactic west, acting as both guards and enforcers for their lords.
Recruited for the natural skill in both ranged and close quarter fighting they are given the finest equipment and armour available to carry out their duties."

Done

Nice, but a little more bulk to it if you can.