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DRs definition of "special attack" is too narrow - a power weapon generates special attacks becuase you skip the "take armour saves" step of resolving any wounds. A Big Choppa is special because it modifies the to-wound roll required. And so on.

jgehunter wrote:Wouldn't a Special Weapon inherently make an attack special? Thus applying to both instances, I mean one way or another all special weapons I can think of change the attack in one way or another, although not the mechanics of it.

No the attack is not special, the weapon is special, It is a normal attack with a special weapon.

A special attack is like "The Betrayer" from Karn Or Ferocious Instincts from Gabriel Seth.

Or a normal attack becomes a special attack when using a special close combat weapon.

DeathReaper wrote:

jgehunter wrote:Wouldn't a Special Weapon inherently make an attack special? Thus applying to both instances, I mean one way or another all special weapons I can think of change the attack in one way or another, although not the mechanics of it.

No the attack is not special, the weapon is special, It is a normal attack with a special weapon.

A special attack is like "The Betrayer" from Karn Or Ferocious Instincts from Gabriel Seth.

Well seeing as there is no rulebook definition for "special attacks" we have to define what a "special attack" is (If there is a definition, I'm sorry and I'm starting to loose sight so please point me to the page) and IMHO I think an attack with a special weapon would be considered a special attack, as it modifies the normal way an attack works.

eg: Banshees Exarch Executioner, it gives the user +2s so say the attack hits, then instead of normally checking with the models S value we add 2 to it, to me that is a clear modification of the normal procedures, do you normally add +2s when you attack?

Magpie wrote:I agree, the notion of two handed weapon only applies to close combat weapons, some of which are nominated as two handed.

A two handed close combat weapon precludes the use of two single handed weapons.

As a side note the bolter isn't necessarily a two handed weapon, alot of the fluff pictures show it in one hand. A good example if the Grey Knight Storm Bolter, mounted on the arm

It may seem a bit silly but you can be toting a whacking great Lascannon and still, if you have a bolt pistol and a sword, make 2 CC attacks. I've not seen an army list that allows this tho'

Chaos Space Marine Havocs. They replace their bolter with a Lascannon but still have a bolt pistol and CCW.

All standard Chaos Space Marines have a bolter, bolt pistol, CCW, frag grenades and Krak grenades. They're pretty much the best equipped standard soldier in the game and the bane of WYSIWYG everywhere


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, lets look at the rulebook.

A normal and a special weapon: These models gain one additional attack. All of their attacks, including the bonus attack, use the special weapon's bonuses and penalties.

Power fists, thunder hammers and lightning claws are an exception to this. Only a second power fist, thunder hammer or lightning claw can confer a bonus attack to a model equipped with one of these weapons.

Two differet special weapons: When it is their turn to attack, these models must choose which weapon to use that turn, but they never get the bonus attack for using two weapons (such is the penalty for wielding too many complex weapons)

I think that is quite clear as to who gets an extra attack from two close combat weapons (be they pistols, power swords or something else). If you wield it in one hand, it doesn't have any rules stating otherwise and it isn't one of the weapons listed above then you get an extra attack if you have a second CCW, using all the rules for the special CCW.