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NecronLord3 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:So the name of the unit defines its special rule? Psykers /= Psyker

HEavy flamers are definitely heavy in Magpie land then.

They dont have the special rule Psyker, so are not a Psyker for the purpose of the AS. Cant get any more simple than that. AT BEST they are a single psyker, depending on how you decide to interpret "etc"

So Daemon Princes aren't Daemons now? Since they don't have the Daemon Special rule.

RAW daemon princes from the chaos marines codex were not daemons, because they do not have the special rule "daemon", until the GK faq said otherwise.

lame but true.

blaktoof wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:So the name of the unit defines its special rule? Psykers /= Psyker

HEavy flamers are definitely heavy in Magpie land then.

They dont have the special rule Psyker, so are not a Psyker for the purpose of the AS. Cant get any more simple than that. AT BEST they are a single psyker, depending on how you decide to interpret "etc"

So Daemon Princes aren't Daemons now? Since they don't have the Daemon Special rule.

RAW daemon princes from the chaos marines codex were not daemons, because they do not have the special rule "daemon", until the GK faq said otherwise.

lame but true.

No this is simply a lack of using common sense. Rules like this have to be spelled out for some people(mostly those arguing on forums like this) . Just as it is painfully obvious that a unit with Daemon in it's name is clearly a Daemon a unit with Psycher(or any derivative there of) is obviously a Psycher for rules that effect "psycher". There is plenty of precedent and support in the rules. Now to be fair, an FAQ entry would be warranted to treat units with rules such as Brotherhood of Psychers, as a single Psycher.

Why do you need a FAQ to determine that the rule "these guys are only a single psyker" really does mean they only count as a single psyker?

Sigh

Because each GK is a Psycher by all aspects except the BoP special rule. You cannot argue that a unit being Psychers is not comprised of individual Psychers and the AS rule refers to Psychers not units.

PsyKer. No Ch

The unit is not composed of "Psyker" models; they are named Psykers, and have a special rule that allows them to function as a single Psyker.

Grey Knight Terminators are not each, individually, Psykers.

Then by your logic Farseers, warlocks, etc are not Psychers either if they don't have the Psycher special rule, and your then are totally wrong. If you are using psychic powers you are a Psycher, point of fact.

Cite a rule that states that please, instead of just saying "you're wrong"

rigeld2 wrote:Cite a rule that states that please, instead of just saying "you're wrong"

"Psychers can use one pchycic power per player turn." pg 50 main rule book.

If you are using psychic powers, you're a Psycher.

All psykers can cast psychic powers, does not mean that all psychic power casters are psykers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let me put it this way.
"All apples are fruit" does not mean that if it is a fruit it must be an apple.

Except that is not what the rules say. The rules require you to be a Psycher in order to caste psychic powers. Hence the need for the clarification of rules in the army of Titan section of the GK codex. You cannot be an apple if you are not a fruit, just as you cannot cast psychic powers if you are not in fact a Psycher.

You can play the rules anyway you want but in the real world during game play everyone plays Farseers, warlocks and GKs as Psychers, since that is what they are.

NecronLord3 wrote:Except that is not what the rules say. The rules require you to be a Psycher in order to caste psychic powers.

What you quoted does not say that. It says that Psykers cast powers. It doesn't say that only Psykers cast powers, nor does it forbid non-Psykers from casting powers.

NEcron - ok, you just dont understand logic then

All psykers can cast powers, does not mean everything that casts a psychic power is a psyker. Basic, basic logic error youre making here

Blood Angels fire Bolters.

Everything that fires a Bolter is a Blood Angel?

rigeld2 wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:Except that is not what the rules say. The rules require you to be a Psycher in order to caste psychic powers.

What you quoted does not say that. It says that Psykers cast powers. It doesn't say that only Psykers cast powers, nor does it forbid non-Psykers from casting powers.

It's in the Psycher section of the rule book. Under the Psycher heading, not the psychic powers section.

NecronLord3 wrote:It's in the Psycher section of the rule book. Under the Psycher heading, not the psychic powers section.

The same rule you already quoted? The one that doesn't help your case?

How about quoting a rule please.

nosferatu1001 wrote:NEcron - ok, you just dont understand logic then

All psykers can cast powers, does not mean everything that casts a psychic power is a psyker. Basic, basic logic error youre making here

Reverse the accusation upon yourself and you would be right.

NecronLord3 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:NEcron - ok, you just dont understand logic then

All psykers can cast powers, does not mean everything that casts a psychic power is a psyker. Basic, basic logic error youre making here

Reverse the accusation upon yourself and you would be right.

Your assertion is that:
All Psykers cast powers. Therefore anyone who casts powers is a Psyker.

I rebut with:
All Grey Hunters have Bolters. Therefore anyone who has a Bolter is a Grey Hunter.

Your move. Please cite actual rules, or correct me on your assertion.

PSYKER

NO CH

PSYKER

Seriously - not difficult.

Lol, youre just funny - I've explained why your assertion is simply logically incorrect, and you have no answer to that. Shucks

I believe there was an FAQ that cleared up that things such as Daemon Spawn were not, in fact, daemons - they did not have the "daemon" special rule - even though "daemon" was in their name. Fluff-wise, it's obvious they are not daemons, but as we know it's silly when we start using fluff as a basis for validating rules.

The way I see it, is that the Inquisitorial (I only use this adjective to specify which unit I'm talking about) Psykers do not have the psyker special rule. As such, as I interpret it, they are ONLY treated as psykers for the sole period of time in which they attempt to use their ability.

Though, I've already stated this... no one has argued against it. Well, not against it specifically.

I mean, I agree it may be silly, but rules are rules. I'm the guy who would have easily allowed the GK player to treat them as psykers individually, so I'm not really bothered by this perception.

rigeld2 wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:NEcron - ok, you just dont understand logic then

All psykers can cast powers, does not mean everything that casts a psychic power is a psyker. Basic, basic logic error youre making here

Reverse the accusation upon yourself and you would be right.

Your assertion is that:
All Psykers cast powers. Therefore anyone who casts powers is a Psyker.

I rebut with:
All Grey Hunters have Bolters. Therefore anyone who has a Bolter is a Grey Hunter.

Your move. Please cite actual rules, or correct me on your assertion.

No need. You are proving you ignorance with your lack of argument.

There is no other section of the rule book covering the use of psychic powers, other than the Psycher section. You cannot assault without using the assault section of the rule book, just as you cannot use psychic powers without being a Psycher per page 50 of the rule book.

Sigh. You apparently dont need actual rules, just an assertion that ignores logic in how you come to your conclusion. I'd say im shocked....

They do not have the psyker rule, but can cast as if they were a single psyker, making them SURPRISE a single psyker

You lack rules and logic, your argument is bunk and can be ignored as irrlevant

NecronLord3 wrote:... just as you cannot use psychic powers without being a Psycher per page 50 of the rule book.

Oddly enough, I fail to see the sentence that declares this on that page.

Kharrak wrote:I believe there was an FAQ that cleared up that things such as Daemon Spawn were not, in fact, daemons - they did not have the "daemon" special rule - even though "daemon" was in their name. Fluff-wise, it's obvious they are not daemons, but as we know it's silly when we start using fluff as a basis for validating rules.

The way I see it, is that the Inquisitorial (I only use this adjective to specify which unit I'm talking about) Psykers do not have the psyker special rule. As such, as I interpret it, they are ONLY treated as psykers for the sole period of time in which they attempt to use their ability.

Though, I've already stated this... no one has argued against it. Well, not against it specifically.

I mean, I agree it may be silly, but rules are rules. I'm the guy who would have easily allowed the GK player to treat them as psykers individually, so I'm not really bothered by this perception.

Chaos spawn are not Daemons. Things with daemon in their name are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kharrak wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:... just as you cannot use psychic powers without being a Psycher per page 50 of the rule book.

Oddly enough, I fail to see the sentence that declares this on that page.

So if I don't have assault rules in my units profile, then I cannot assault?

NecronLord3 wrote:No need. You are proving you ignorance with your lack of argument.

Lack of argument? Are you serious?
You made a statement. Nos and I have disproved that statement. We've asked for rules citations to back up your statement. You have provided nothing.

There is no other section of the rule book covering the use of psychic powers, other than the Psycher section. You cannot assault without using the assault section of the rule book, just as you cannot use psychic powers without being a Psycher per page 50 of the rule book.

Blatantly false, as we've shown.

Or are you actually saying that everyone carrying a Bolter is a Grey Hunter?

NecronLord3 wrote:Chaos spawn are not Daemons. Things with daemon in their name are.

Whups - made a mistake there, my bad. Though, interesting to note that units without Daemon in their name are daemons as well.

NecronLord3 wrote:So if I don't have assault rules in my units profile, then I cannot assault?

Quite different, as the rulebook does explicitly state what can and can not assault. However, it says that Psykers may use psycic powers, but never that they are the only ones who can.