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kb305 - what? Psycannon SUCK at killing vehicles. Pen plus +1 on the damage chart is why melta is still king.

It's surprisingly effective.

In our local tourny, which is actually running this weekend, we have a comp system but it's different to those above.

A team of four tourny organisers debate go through all the lists and pass most of them without any problems at all. Then, the ones they are wary of are discussed to see if they are valid or not

Now, there are rules but they are bendy. For example:

Avoid duplicating an HQ unit.
Avoid having 2 Special/Named Characters that occupy an HQ slot
Avoid having 3 of the same ELITE units
Avoid having 4 or more of the same TROOP units
Avoid having 4 or more of the same DEDICATED TRANSPORT, and 3 or more if the transports have a front armour value of 14
Avoid having 3 of the same FAST ATTACK units
Avoid having 3 of the same HEAVY SUPPORT units
Avoid having a total of 4 or more of the same VEHICLE TYPE with a front armour value of 12 and above, assigned into SQUADRONS.

In the sense that if your list is obviously themed or reliant on certain things then they'll let them pass. For example you could probably take 6 squads of grey hunters in razorbacks (which would break 2 rules) if you didn't fill your heavy support slots with long fangs, your HQ slots with Njal and Logen and your Fast Attack slots with thunderwolves.

It's all about balance in list design.

Personally, I'm not for or against Comp. It doesn't affect me. None of my lists have ever been done for comp so w/e. I have buddies who will play "hard" lists with me if I wanted.

Grakmar wrote:But, I think a few of your objections aren't an issue. For example, armies with a single troop choice wouldn't be hurt (they'd probably be helped), as even with players spamming them, there's such a disproportionate number of GK players. So, GK units would all be the ones getting point increases; at least, until the codex starts to loose it's OP'ness, becomes more balanced, and people start playing the underpowered codexes that now have units for next to nothing.

I don't think so, you need at least two GKs to outnumber the amount of boyz in a kan wall/green tide/trukk list, if they pick two different troops, you need four or more. So if you have twelve grey knights and two ork players, they might still get a point increase for the boyz.

Avoid having 4 or more of the same TROOP units
Avoid having 4 or more of the same DEDICATED TRANSPORT, and 3 or more if the transports have a front armour value of 14
Avoid having a total of 4 or more of the same VEHICLE TYPE with a front armour value of 12 and above, assigned into SQUADRONS.

While I find the other one quite reasonable, those three are really over the top.

Having more than four of the same troop units is something that should be perfectly normal in most armies. Most armies really don't get a choice, while other want to do this because their army is designed that way. Troops choices should never, ever be limited in comp in any way.
The second one pretty much tells any mech ork, eldar or dark eldar army to stay at home. More marines for the marine god! Oh, and they explicitly hate battlewagons, the only transport with front armor 14 you realistically can field more often than thrice. Every comp system I have ever seen has some hypocritical rule preventing four battlewagons to be brought. None say "DON'T BRING FOUR BATTLEWAGONS!!!" though, a huge hint that the author hates playing against them, but tries to hide that he is just writing down his subjective opinion.
The last rule also says that they hate IG artillery squadrons. Not surprisingly, they didn't say so outright, they had to find a rule that sounds more general.
I'm surprised that this list didn't contain "Avoid having models with more than 4 force weapons in one unit."

Speaking of, could all the "GK are OP!" "Are not!" people go find a less interesting thread to continue the fight?

kb305 wrote:
no way. pods make them even more expensive. 5 sternguard in a pod with meltas is 185 points. provided it doesnt scatter and lands in the perfect position and you roll well, it comes down and kills one vehicle. who cares? the next turn all of those sternguards are dead. melta guns suck compared to psycannons anyways.

Combat squadding kills 2 vehicles, and I'd assume that the Grey Knights would care about their precious Psyflemen going boom.