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Firstly, thanks to everyone who bothered to read my endless ranting . But I may have been misunderstood. Maybe my fault too. So here's some more ranting

1. Of course the Necrons are a threat to everyone, everywhere. Their numbers are near limitless, their technology supreme, their intellect vast. What I meant to say by mentioning they were not a galaxy threat anymore, was their mindset. Once, they were actively threatening the galaxy. They used the, somewhat crude, but highly appealing (well, to me at least ) motto: we hate you all for being alive, and will kill you and feed your souls to our gods. Cute. Now, as the codex states, they may simply ignore a system if it has little military, scientific or other value, or if the system complies with their demands.

2. The C'Tan are indeed still around and still pretty mighty, but they are not gods anymore. They are but shards that keep part of their powers contained. Like a genie in a bottle really. Whenever the Necrons are in a bind, they rub the Shard and poof! a C'Tan appears and grants them their wish. Before, they had their place in the pantheon as all gods of the other races did, only theirs was a place that, for me at least, could only be filled by them. They were Lovecraftian. They transcend the boundaries of reality as we know them and actually aided the Necrontyr race transcend them as well. Most pieces of fluff (both old and new) add to this Lovecraftian feel with sciences that seem more like magic, strange geometry etc.

3. As for the fleet threat, I don't have either the new or old codexes with me and I cannot remember the part I talked about earlier.

Note, I understand why some of these changes took place, and definitely some of the fluff needed a little makeover, but I feel the C'Tan (as ancient, evil, ravenous and totally Lovecraftian gods) could have stayed in the fluff. Remember all those hints at the connection between the AdMech and the Void Dragon! That was a pretty grimdark piece of fluff in my humble opinion.
Anyway thanks for putting up with me! Cheers!

Let me hit your points.

1: They owned the galaxy, what everyone else is squatting on used to be prime Necron property. sure they may not be one unified people(yet), however when every single dynasty wakes up in either makes plans to take back what was it's land or starts doing so right away.

Same threat, merely a different goal.


2: Oh, they are still very much god like creatures. They are simply contained. Necrons do not want them ever getting out . I myself am glade the magical element is gone. I like my nercon more techno. We have plenty of races that are magical.

3: three I looked it up. Page .27 of the new book. The Inevitable conquer came under attack by the whole Black templar fleet. They do not cripple the ship, they boarded it and with his forces in disarray the stormload teleaported out.

Mr Black templar got all prissy and set the ship on a coarse to the heart of the sun. If the Styormlord had stayed they may have got him, but the bill would have not come cheaply.


The necrons had to change for a very simple reason. sales. every other army you could customize, every one except the necrons. they were always the same and kinda boreing.


I myself am on the side that like the new fluff. I like the C'tan as weaken and trapped Gods. To me it shows the true power of a united Necron force. If they can do that to the C'tan, then anything is at risk.

As I mentioned, I completely understand the reasons behind the changes. Possibly, because I have not been playing 40k for long I had not gotten "tired" of the old Necron fluff (which was what actually drew me in the first place).
Thanks for reading.

Its cool. I am new myself. Playing around with the setting less then a year. Most stuff I know is from research really

I do miss the old Necron vibe, ancient killers enslaved to the C'tan, it made then the most grimdrak faction in 40k. Now they seem the Tau, a small faction with only a minor role in the grand scheme of things.

Waiiit do they actually say these gates are used for FTL transportation in the codex? i am an avid cron fan and i read the dolmen gates passage but i assumed they were simply a tool for the necrons to reach their enemies (Old ones/Eldar) who were using hit and run tactics via he webway..


?

Yep it says without the webway they would be force to relay on slow moving statise ships. I Ignore that line.

Nakor The BlueRider wrote:I do miss the old Necron vibe, ancient killers enslaved to the C'tan, it made then the most grimdrak faction in 40k. Now they seem the Tau, a small faction with only a minor role in the grand scheme of things.

I mean, barring their ability to make stars explode, harness innumerable dimensions for their purposes, their millions of still-sleeping tomb worlds, their still-powerful fleets.... yeah. Tau.

Anyway, slow-moving stasis-ships (and I think another bit of fluff refers to torch-ships), are BS. How the FUDGE did their empire span the galaxy prior to gaining access to the webway if they did not possess FTL? Because their empire, pre-transferrence, was freaking massive. They ruled the galaxy. Without a sort of FTL (which isn't the Warp and isn't the webway) they could not have done anything outside of their star system in their life spans. But I suppose if they were in no hurry to get anywhere (like a critical battle on the far side of the galaxy), I guess they could take stasis ship and get there after the battle had been finished for a decade. Which, actually they did, furthering my hypothesis that Ward has zero clue about anything science related, and all fluff relating to the expansion of the Necron empire should be discarded like the C:GK Bloodtide entry and replaced with something not fudging dumb.

Hunterindarkness wrote:Yep it says without the webway they would be force to relay on slow moving statise ships. I Ignore that line.

I'll ignore it too, then.
hopefully with a necron inclusing and a "massive overhaul" in necrons for the upcoming IA book, some fluff can be presented supporting the threatened position FTL tech on necron ships.

Yeah I am at a total loos at "They only had torch ships"+ "colonized the galaxy and had many small empires"+ "waged interstellar war" The gate thing is cool, but is one of those idea's they went to far with.

Massive overhaul what? Is this in the Rumors section? I would love this.

McNinja wrote: Because their empire, pre-transferrence, was freaking massive. They ruled the galaxy.

No they didn't. They tried to take on the Old Ones and got soundly defeated. They didn't remotely rule the galaxy before the bio-transferrence. Even after it, it's debatable. The only time it can really be argued that they ruled the galaxy was just after the Old Ones were defeated and before they turned on the C'tan, and even then they were sharing that power with the C'tan.

While the Dolem gates were probably used as a means of transportation, it was ultimately used as a way to attack the old ones as well as the Eldar. Since they have been in existence for billions of years (of course they were asleep for 60 million years but that's still not much compared to billions) so its understandable that they now have developed non-warp FTL travel by using worm-holes or whatever. Honestly, I don't remember the codex mentioning specifically "worm-holes" but it does mention a lot of phasing between dimensions and slipping into pocket dimension used by deathmarks, nightscythes, and monoliths.

While this codex does expand a lot more of the fluff it does seem to leave a bit up to interpretation. It could be that they can use dimensional travel that ignores the threats of the warp because of their increased technology or because they are traveling through dimensions completely different from the warp or maybe they are immune to the threats of the warp (to some degree) because they have no psychic ability whatsoever.

Ultimately, I feel that it's because of their immense technological skill and long-lasting existence more than anything else, but I think it's a personal decision on how you interpret it.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

McNinja wrote: Because their empire, pre-transferrence, was freaking massive. They ruled the galaxy.

No they didn't. They tried to take on the Old Ones and got soundly defeated. They didn't remotely rule the galaxy before the bio-transferrence. Even after it, it's debatable. The only time it can really be argued that they ruled the galaxy was just after the Old Ones were defeated and before they turned on the C'tan, and even then they were sharing that power with the C'tan.

Nope, First paragraph on page 6, says " Little by little the Necrontry dynasties spread even farther, until much of the galaxy answered to their rule". That was well before the war in heaven and the gates. They outnumber the Oldones by a large amount and had vastly better tech, this is also covered. They and the old ones ruled the galaxy, however of the two the Necrontyr covered a much larger area , almost all of it. The onld ones however had the webway, so could move troops, or whole settlements at a moments notice, while even using warp speeds it would take the necrontyr weeks or months to get to a target.

If you go by the new codex, then yes the Necrontry were the rulers of the galaxy in numbers alone. They more or less pulled the same trick humanity has and had spread to any and every habitable or useful world they stumbled across.

Hunterindarkness wrote:
Nope, First paragraph on page 6, says " Little by little the Necrontry dynasties spread even farther, until much of the galaxy answered to their rule"

Which doesn't mean that they were the 'rulers' of the galaxy. I don't feel that you can be the ruler of a galaxy when you're a much weaker force than those going around seeding planets and the like. The Old Ones might not have been the 'rulers' of the galaxy either since they don't seem to have had the motivation, but the I don't think the Necrontyr were either. Powerful yes, but by no means the dominant force.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Hunterindarkness wrote:
Nope, First paragraph on page 6, says " Little by little the Necrontry dynasties spread even farther, until much of the galaxy answered to their rule"[/quote]
Which doesn't mean that they were the 'rulers' of the galaxy. I don't feel that you can be the ruler of a galaxy when you're a much weaker force than those going around seeding planets and the like. The Old Ones might not have been the 'rulers' of the galaxy either since they don't seem to have had the motivation, but the I don't think the Necrontyr were either. Powerful yes, but by no means the dominant force.

I bolded the important part.

djdutton wrote:While the Dolem gates were probably used as a means of transportation, it was ultimately used as a way to attack the old ones as well as the Eldar. Since they have been in existence for billions of years (of course they were asleep for 60 million years but that's still not much compared to billions) so its understandable that they now have developed non-warp FTL travel by using worm-holes or whatever. Honestly, I don't remember the codex mentioning specifically "worm-holes" but it does mention a lot of phasing between dimensions and slipping into pocket dimension used by deathmarks, nightscythes, and monoliths.

While this codex does expand a lot more of the fluff it does seem to leave a bit up to interpretation. It could be that they can use dimensional travel that ignores the threats of the warp because of their increased technology or because they are traveling through dimensions completely different from the warp or maybe they are immune to the threats of the warp (to some degree) because they have no psychic ability whatsoever.

Ultimately, I feel that it's because of their immense technological skill and long-lasting existence more than anything else, but I think it's a personal decision on how you interpret it.

See you point out dimensional travel, and a lot of other peopel associate any extradimensional things in 40k as strictly the warp; nobody ever said there were only two dimensions!

I'm under the assumption after everything that i've read on necron fluff that they arre wholey disinterested in the warp since it's volitile and only use it "like with dolmen gates" for strategic value. And when it comes to use of extradimensional tech, hell look at the Tarrasict (spelling?) labyrinths.

you know, those devices that the necrons used to trap the c'tan shards that are also used to trap enemies in game. Those devices open up tiny, pocket dimensions where the enemies are trapped for eternity in a limbo like space. The necrons use dimensional tech that has nothing to do with the webway and the warp, and yeah i think as a whole there just wasn't a lot of fluff explaining all of this.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
Which doesn't mean that they were the 'rulers' of the galaxy. I don't feel that you can be the ruler of a galaxy when you're a much weaker force than those going around seeding planets and the like. The Old Ones might not have been the 'rulers' of the galaxy either since they don't seem to have had the motivation, but the I don't think the Necrontyr were either. Powerful yes, but by no means the dominant force.

well first off it says they
1: ruled much of the galaxy
2: Out numbered the old ones vastly
3: Had better technology then anyone.

The old ones had 1 and only 1 thing that gave them the advantage. The webway and insta travel with vast forces or vast evac to anywhere. Once that little issue was fixed then yes the Old ones had zero chance.

It slipped my mind earlier, but I was also remidned of 'Lori Delta Tove' the planet sized Necron who apparently can FTL between the stars at will. The GK codex implied it was due to some sort of temporal manipulation ability (which fits with implications of the Cryptek in Fall of Damnos.) If so then at least some alternative forms of Necron FTL would fall into that 'messing with fundamental forces of the galaxy that has unpredictable consequences' like the Necron Celestial Orrey (which apparently can also act FTL across vast distances, I might add.) or Orikan's time travel abilities and their unpredictable conseuqences.

I would actually say that the Dolmen Gates are the one form of Necron FTL that is accessible to ALL of them, aside from the possible use of their wormhole gate portal thingies. We know of a number of Necron forces having it but we also know that the Stormlords in 'Hammer and Anvil' were distinctly sublight warships. So for some Lords lack of a Dolmen gate may not be a problem.

Edit: Also 'dimension' can have more than one meaning.. semantics can be a messy thing when you don't have clarification.

Hunterindarkness wrote:
well first off it says they
1: ruled much of the galaxy
2: Out numbered the old ones vastly
3: Had better technology then anyone.

The old ones had 1 and only 1 thing that gave them the advantage. The webway and insta travel with vast forces or vast evac to anywhere. Once that little issue was fixed then yes the Old ones had zero chance.

The word "much" is a relative term. You could say that Russia rules much of the world because of its landmass. That doesn't mean that it rules the world or is the most powerful nation. The Necrontyr having a higher population doesn't surprise me. The Old Ones were immortal. Having lots of children would have been unnecessary. The Necrontyr had highly unpredictable lifespans that were generally short. Of course they'd be having lots of children. Good for them. The Necrons still have better technology. as do the Eldar but neither of them rule the galaxy in the 41st millenium. The Old Ones also had Psychic powers as well as the Webway.

Actually the Eldra ruled the galaxy for some time, it was only after they became decadent that they lost the grip upon it. You can disagree, but with what is written the Necrontry in fact did rule the galaxy in the same way that the IoM currently does

When you cover almost everything but a few spots here and there, then yeah "rule the Galaxy" fits.

Ya, Doleman gates are lame. Can't say I'm a fan of the Newcron fluff overall. It's got that feeling to it y'know: that Matt Ward has written this feeling.

Connor MacLeod wrote:It slipped my mind earlier, but I was also remidned of 'Lori Delta Tove' the planet sized Necron who apparently can FTL between the stars at will. The GK codex implied it was due to some sort of temporal manipulation ability (which fits with implications of the Cryptek in Fall of Damnos.).

*ahem*

WHAT THE FETH IS THIS?

where is this from, i must know, nownownownow!

KamikazeCanuck wrote: Can't say I'm a fan of the Newcron fluff overall. It's got that feeling to it y'know: that Matt Ward has written this feeling.

Statements like this have gotten really old and really tiring. And no I am not a huge ward fan, I feel his stuff seems unpolished but the raging Hard on of hate because his name is on something is just overblown.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

IronfrontAlex wrote:

Connor MacLeod wrote:It slipped my mind earlier, but I was also remidned of 'Lori Delta Tove' the planet sized Necron who apparently can FTL between the stars at will. The GK codex implied it was due to some sort of temporal manipulation ability (which fits with implications of the Cryptek in Fall of Damnos.).

*ahem*

WHAT THE FETH IS THIS?

where is this from, i must know, nownownownow!

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Lori_Delta_Tove#.T4c_rHlA50I here ya go. And it was not a Necron, but a Necron built planet tomb world it seems.

@hunter.

Don't worry, I don't like Matt Ward because of his bad changes to the background not some Internet meme.

I for one Like the new fluff are better then the old, However I can totally respect someone disliking it. It was simply the way you stated it did not say that. It was like saying Ward wrote it so it was defacto bad, simply because he had a hand in it.

Hunterindarkness wrote:I for one Like the new fluff are better then the old, However I can totally respect someone disliking it. .

Pretty much this. The new fluff is more or less what got me interested in Necrons. But I can understand how people feel some of it is unnecessary or OTT.

The new fluff also got me into the Necrons. But I feel like Matt Ward is one of those people who, like me, have a bunch of awesome ideas, but translating them onto paper is not exactly their greatest strength. Read the last part of my (rather long) post on the second page. That is exactly how I feel about Matt Ward.

The problem is the utter retcon displeased those that liked the old background of the Necrons and C'tan being a Lovecraftian horror from the past.

The easiest way to have pleased both factions of players would have been to have the rebellion against the C'tan occur, NOW in the modern 40K era, with the Necrons seeing an opportunity as the C'tan wake up, weakened as never before by their long sleep. That way, players could have played the new Tomb Kings in space rebellious Necrons, while those that liked the old background could have stuck with the loyalist Necrons aiming to serve the C'tan and being an implacable enemy of all other races and factions.

The other problem I find is Ward's insistence on creating Mary Sue characters in every Codex, such as Imotekh for the Necrons. The new Codex makes it out that he is a completely unbeatable strategist, save for when confronted with the zany illogic of Orks. It's one weakness but it seems almost a token one. It is almost as if he thinks such authoer/player insertion fantasies are what constitutes good writing or design.

I actually don't mind the new Necron background as it added a bit of flavor to the previously bland possibilities of the old Necrons. I just disagree with how the retcon was carried out with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

Iracundus wrote:The problem is the utter retcon displeased those that liked the old background of the Necrons and C'tan being a Lovecraftian horror from the past.

The easiest way to have pleased both factions of players would have been to have the rebellion against the C'tan occur, NOW in the modern 40K era, with the Necrons seeing an opportunity as the C'tan wake up, weakened as never before by their long sleep. That way, players could have played the new Tomb Kings in space rebellious Necrons, while those that liked the old background could have stuck with the loyalist Necrons aiming to serve the C'tan and being an implacable enemy of all other races and factions.

.

But you would have the very same issues. Some one would not like it. I myself do not care for that idea at all, it seems..well sloppy. If you go by the old fluff they simply could never rebel at all, and nothing would change that except..well they need to rebel except can't. The old fluff had to change, it simply had to. So you are left with two and only two real options. 1: Fresh break, all new background total reboot. 2: Kinda try to change some of the background so it still is the same, but no longer is the same. The second rout is often the messier of the two. Number two normally pisses everyone off

GW and ward went with a clean break. Total reboot. Did this upset some old players, yes. Did it please and bring in new Necron players, yes.The new fluff more or less does just what you are asking. They have given Necron players a blank check to build any kind of Necron Fluff they wish. Who is to say you can not have a Necron army that worships the C'tan shards as Gods and wishes to restore them? The new fluff allows this.