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Lynata wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:I wish they were as bad ass in the fluff as they are in any game they've been in.

They are - depending on which fluff you're looking at. GW's Armageddon campaign, a number of short stories in the White Dwarf, and a few select BL novels (look for Kev Walker and James Swallow) have them in a pretty positive light. It all depends on your focus ... and of course one has to find these gems first.

If Dark Millennium is single player, I'd actually support a Sororitas appearance again. That being said, I don't think they're considered popular enough. Especially in light of its financial crisis, the developer will likely want to play it safe and focus on the Marines.

But then again, the public wants variety...

I think variety is valued most by a rather small subset of the target demographic - us elder geeks. The big market is focused entirely on the vague concept of "awesomeness" or "epicness", and who better to fill this role for a 40k game than a Space Marine? Generic Bald White Action Guy #417 reporting for duty! With muscles twice as big as those of Schwarzenegger and fists able to punch a hapless foe's face right off, nobody can stand before this manly god of war. Bonus feature: No complicated dialogue, just badass one-liners and battlecries!

... yeah, well.

I've long since come to feel that, with few exceptions, both movies as well as video games are slowly but steadily moving away from my personal preferences, and this development includes a loss in depth and complexity as much as a loss in variety.

Maybe I'm too negative/pessimistic on this, but that's how I feel, and I know I'm not the only one.

Wouldn't mind a single player RPG. There's still lots of potential for this to work as an open world storyline a-la TES, combined with the traditional MMO Faction & Class based storylines. Add in Co-op gameplay and I see it doing very well for itself.

Lynata wrote:I think variety is valued most by a rather small subset of the target demographic

You're mistaken, then, especially for RPGs. Many of the most successful RPGs are also the ones which give the most variety in customization. JRPGs in comparison are kind of a dying breed, people are drifting away because theyr'e so samey.

I've actually witnessed a reduction in customizability in RPGs, recently. But maybe it depends on the titles the both of us played.

Lynata wrote:I've actually witnessed a reduction in customizability in RPGs, recently. But maybe it depends on the titles the both of us played.

I'm thinking of Skyrim, A Valley Without Wind, Legend of Grimrock, Kingdoms of Amalur, every MMO recently (or really ever) produced, etc.

Mind you, I admit to having a tendency to ignore games like Witcher entirely.

Lynata wrote:I've actually witnessed a reduction in customizability in RPGs, recently. But maybe it depends on the titles the both of us played.

The obsession with customization is really starting to grate on me. You will not see the level of customization available in games like Arcanum and Daggerfall or even Morrowind for a while simply because more customization means more unique graphics and animations which are increasingly more time consuming to create. Even then, there are recent games with a pretty decent amount of play style options. Mass Effect 3 has a wider range of talents, weapon, and armor options than Mass Effect 2. Skyrim, despite doing away with the class system, actually feels like it has more play style options than Oblivion and Morrowind.

Amaya wrote:The obsession with customization is really starting to grate on me.

It ain't goin' away

At least I can rejoice over the eventual death of JRPGs.

We can both rejoice in that.

Melissia wrote:I'm thinking of Skyrim, A Valley Without Wind, Legend of Grimrock, Kingdoms of Amalur, every MMO recently (or really ever) produced, etc.
Mind you, I admit to having a tendency to ignore games like Witcher entirely.

I'm thinking of the reduction in playable races in DA2 or the loss of a female character in Deus Ex HR. In terms of MMOs, TOR certainly has less customization (and less species, and less classes) than SWG had.

The Witcher I have never played, but from all I've heard customization is pretty much non-existent there? Not sure what you can change about the male PC there. Lack of customization is one of the reasons I've not touched it.

"Recent" games with exceptional customization would be Champions Online or STO, or - of course - APB. Unfortunately, for all the customization they allow, they seem to lack in other departments, in turn making them less popular than the aforementioned titles. Which is a shame especially for APB, because that game has a really great idea at its core. I guess that for most people customization isn't as important as it is for me. Which ties in with my previously voiced perception that variety isn't as important for the majority.

Amaya wrote:The obsession with customization is really starting to grate on me. You will not see the level of customization available in games like Arcanum and Daggerfall or even Morrowind for a while simply because more customization means more unique graphics and animations which are increasingly more time consuming to create. Even then, there are recent games with a pretty decent amount of play style options. Mass Effect 3 has a wider range of talents, weapon, and armor options than Mass Effect 2. Skyrim, despite doing away with the class system, actually feels like it has more play style options than Oblivion and Morrowind.

I don't think it's an issue of technical problems in terms of "unique graphics and animations" but rather a simple means of efficiency - elimination of those parts of a game considered least-important to save time and money, and praise the outcome as being "more accessible for the players". Because apparently (warning: pessimism ahead), today's average gamer doesn't want to spend 30 minutes at character creation but rather wants to start blowing gak up immediately. At the end of the day, your character's body animations are completely independent from the size of your nose. The only difficult part is devising an interface that allows the user to make these changes, yet this too costs money, and as such is cut when deemed unnecessary.

As for Mass Effect, wouldn't it be more accurate to compare ME 3 and ME2 with ME 1? Because lol @ range of talents.

I was really hoping you could play Guard all the way through, in which you are reliant on squad based tactics, not just running in and slaughtering everything while your friends died horrible deaths.

moom241 wrote:I was really hoping you could play Guard all the way through, in which you are reliant on squad based tactics, not just running in and slaughtering everything while your friends died horrible deaths.

That would have been somewhat innovative, and a nice way to balance IG characters with Marine players.

My interest in the entire project dropped as soon as they announced the Guardsman was actually an assassin, tho.

Maybe this new game will even end up more interesting than the MMO. Regardless of my continued affection with MMOs for their potential in terms of multiplayer fun, they also tend to come with some rather nasty yet unfortunately firmly established gameplay concepts and mechanics that don't really fit to a setting like 40k, and which are much easier to avoid in a classic singleplayer game.

Who knows, maybe it'll be good even if it only features Marines. This time at least it will be Black Templars for a change.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:I'd think it might be like characters in DOW in first person and with an RPG twist.

So, you can pick a particular character, and as the game develops, you can unlock more and more items.

And here I was hoping for a Fable remake...

Maybe it will be like Command and Conquer Renegade, it was great fun until a certain point in the game.

It's still an RPG, not an FPS..

It can be both.

I very much doubt that, since thay already showed 3rd person gameplay.

... again, that's not incompatible with shooter RPGs (in fact, most that I know of ARE third person, though the best are usually first)

Now your just not making sense...

All I meant was, an RPG isn't going to be like C&C renegade. And I just said 3rd person is what this is being designed as so I don't really know who you're talking to now.

Melissia wrote:We can both rejoice in that.

Everyone who enjoys good games can rejoice in that.

Soladrin wrote:Now your just not making sense...

All I meant was, an RPG isn't going to be like C&C renegade. And I just said 3rd person is what this is being designed as so I don't really know who you're talking to now.

The simple fact that an RPG CAN in fact be like CnC Renegade.

If this Rpg was to be made. Would it be a First-person or Third Person perspective?

Lynata wrote:

moom241 wrote:I was really hoping you could play Guard all the way through, in which you are reliant on squad based tactics, not just running in and slaughtering everything while your friends died horrible deaths.

That would have been somewhat innovative, and a nice way to balance IG characters with Marine players.

My interest in the entire project dropped as soon as they announced the Guardsman was actually an assassin, tho.

Maybe this new game will even end up more interesting than the MMO. Regardless of my continued affection with MMOs for their potential in terms of multiplayer fun, they also tend to come with some rather nasty yet unfortunately firmly established gameplay concepts and mechanics that don't really fit to a setting like 40k, and which are much easier to avoid in a classic singleplayer game.

Who knows, maybe it'll be good even if it only features Marines. This time at least it will be Black Templars for a change.

Yeah, it just dropped off my radar when I heard IG were axed.

Or were they never part of it to begin with?

moom241 wrote:Or were they never part of it to begin with?

That'd be my guess - the initial information was very sparse, so all people had were some general PR and a few fancy screenshots. And you know how word of mouth and the internet rumour mill work.

By the way, awesome signature.

Melissia wrote:

Soladrin wrote:Now your just not making sense...

All I meant was, an RPG isn't going to be like C&C renegade. And I just said 3rd person is what this is being designed as so I don't really know who you're talking to now.

The simple fact that an RPG CAN in fact be like CnC Renegade.

So by this, all you really mean is an RPG with vehicles?

Lynata wrote:My interest in the entire project dropped as soon as they announced the Guardsman was actually an assassin, tho.

I... i didn't know... my heart is broken. I am so sad right now.

But you know, there are trends towards the whole faceless emotionless space marine running around, but I think there are a games with personality and squad-based tactics that have a degree of success. The Bad Company games did it. Republic Commando did. One of the things I love in games and what drew me to the Battlefield games (not Bad Company) and the Star Wars Battlefront games is the idea that you aren't invincible, that you aren't a one-man super-soldier army. That's why I don't like Halo. That's why I don't like CoD and all the others. I want to feel like I'm a soldier fighting in a war. Not a video game character fighting in a video game.

But in all honesty, what I want to see in a WH40k game is playing as an Imperial Guardsman on the fragging front line. That's the only place we could ever see the scale and intensity offered by WH40k. No other game provides that. DoW, you're fighting with company or battalion sized units. Space Marine is just a squad. Even the actual tabletop is just company sized, unless you're running those week long battles.

Wouldn't it be great to see some of the things mentioned in Gaunt's Ghosts? The hell of Vervunhive, the invasion of Gereon? Anything you can imagine. Trudging through a trench war with the Death Korps, marching straight at the enemy with the Mordians?

There really is a lot of potential with the Imperial Guard that I think everyone is either missing or is too poor to try it. It would be incredibly ambitious, so I'm not exactly getting my hopes up. And the hardware needed may not really exist just yet. But maybe next generation. Can you think how amazing that would be?

hellspawn22 wrote:But you know, there are trends towards the whole faceless emotionless space marine running around, but I think there are a games with personality and squad-based tactics that have a degree of success. The Bad Company games did it. Republic Commando did. One of the things I love in games and what drew me to the Battlefield games (not Bad Company) and the Star Wars Battlefront games is the idea that you aren't invincible, that you aren't a one-man super-soldier army. That's why I don't like Halo. That's why I don't like CoD and all the others. I want to feel like I'm a soldier fighting in a war. Not a video game character fighting in a video game.

I feel the same way, and the "invincible god-mode" stuff is why I've grown tired of Marines relatively early after joining the hobby and switched my interest to Sisters and Guard. Alas, the one-man-army cliché is incredibly popular (which is why it gets hyped up again and again by GW), so unfortunately GW and its licensors will probably continue to milk it.

In a way, it's democratic. I still wish the powers-that-be would recognize the potential of an occasional niche product, though.