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Actually he's base I7, sorry if I misled, I meant that he has I78when on the charge lol, oops

I don't know if swarmlord is Eternal Warrior, but I'll check the codex quickly. My debate earlier was whether or not his combat invul save protects against psychic-inflicted instant death, which I'm pretty sure wouldn't happen cause that'd mean that not only would the Swarmlord get 4+ invul on the force weapon, but make you take a 3d6 psychic test, and THEN get another invul, which doesn't seem right, I'm pretty sure that the force weapon is a psychic attack.

Yeah, he's not Eternal Warrior.

Yeah, the Swarmlord's pretty much screwed by Mephy.

geez...well, I mean, you're best off trying to get off the force weapon, but that does rely on luck, but I mean...even if he gets double 1's and gets perils, that's absolutely fine if he pwns the swarmlord

Titan Atlas wrote:geez...well, I mean, you're best off trying to get off the force weapon, but that does rely on luck, but I mean...even if he gets double 1's and gets perils, that's absolutely fine if he pwns the swarmlord

Str 10 and Preferred Enemy?

Str 10 and preferred enemy are all great and good, but several of those wounds likely will be saved by the swarmy's invul, it's mainly the force weapon that will likely bring it to their knees, meaning you don't want to use wings.

Also, thanks to shadow in the warp, it's suddenly less likely to get those powers off, but even just getting one would suffice and you'll likely score at least one wound, and with luck granting you'll get more

I'm pretty sure I've explained this already and you guys implied that you had understood, but here's the nitty-gritty Force Weapon explanation (this doesn't apply to GK Force Weapons though - like everything else in that Codex, they're special):
-Character rolls to hit/wound
-Target(s) take their invulnerable save
-The Character chooses to use their Force Weapon (if possible; eg, they haven't cast all their powers that turn already) on a single target which has suffered an unsaved wound from the character
-Roll the Character's psychic test. If they pass it, the target model suffers Instant Death. Since this modifies a wound they have already suffered, they cannot save it. They can only survive this if they have some sort of psychic-resistant equipment (eg, Wolf Tail Talisman) or Eternal Warrior. It, of course, does not work against vehicles.

As for Swarmy vs Mephiston in a one-on-one, while Mephiston strikes first, he is the underdog. He HAS to get 1 wound on the Swarmlord (with a 50% chance of the Swarmlord saving it) and then has a to pass his force weapon test (with Shadow in the Warp, that's a 50% chance), or he is basically guaranteed to get smooshed. That's also ignoring the Swarmlord getting the charge and/or casting Paroxysm or something else on Mephiston first.

With simple Mathhammer, let's say Mephiston gets the charge. To realistically do so, he used Wings of Sanguinius (we'll assume he passed). 6 attacks, 4+ to hit with a 50% chance of getting rerolls from Unleash Rage or a 50% chance of getting S10 from the Sanguine Sword.

Whichever way you slice it, using Unleash Rage and the Sanguine Sword yield the same results. Mephiston will probably get 1-2 wounds, but in the end it's coming down to a 50-50 force weapon test, which - if failed - virtually guarantees death for Mephiston.

However, if he fails to cast Unleash Rage/Sanguine Sword, he's in trouble. 3 hits, 1-2 wounds, 0-1 unsaved wounds. The Swarmlord might not even need to worry about a Force Weapon if he stops Mephiston's self-buffing.

Ultimately, if Mephiston wins, it's because of luck. The Swarmlord's odds to score at least 1 wound are much better than Mephiston's multiple SitW psychic tests, armour saves, etc, and his odds are basically riding on his ability to cast a buffing power.

Yeah, see, that's pretty much it.

Now then, let's get onto something else

Good plan. What about Bloodcrushers on Nob Bikers? I'd probably give the Bloodcrushers this one. Although depending upon how many Power Klaws the Nobz have it could be interesting.

Yea, but bloodcrushers on charge..

thenoobbomb wrote:Yea, but bloodcrushers on charge..

Ever met my Furiosos, noobbomb?

Yeah, but Nob bikers with a fair number of Power Klaws on the charge... We have no idea which party has the charge in the combat, so in the interests of fairness it is probably best to assume that either both parties get the charge or neither do. As I say though, I'd still probably give it to the Bloodcrushers.

Rampage wrote:Yeah, but Nob bikers with a fair number of Power Klaws on the charge... We have no idea which party has the charge in the combat, so in the interests of fairness it is probably best to assume that either both parties get the charge or neither do. As I say though, I'd still probably give it to the Bloodcrushers.

All I have to say is Leman Russ Punisher. Not cheesy, admittedly, but a reasonably good answer to units that rely on good saves and toughness.

Slap Pask in there as well and you've got a pretty effective (albeit expensive) vehicle there. Should do some serious damage to those units.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

thenoobbomb wrote:Yea, but bloodcrushers on charge..

Ever met my Furiosos, noobbomb?

No, I always use them myself

blood crushers 2 wounds st 5 (6 on charge) all power weapons t 5 i 5 (6 on charge) fearless take 8 of them 5++ and 3+ saves eternal warrior wb 5 mosterous creature base size