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Clearly we're all looking at the old issues with nostalgia, even if we look at them right now. The nostalgia for wanting to believe it used to be better simply creates these tutorials, player armies and decent battle reports in our minds; the reality being we're merely staring at an advert page instead.

I'd stray off topic to mention a similar phenomenon involving imaginary bubbles, but that'd be a bad thing. Must just be hate as usual.

I used to be love reading WD and Citadel Journal in the 90s, I admit I was a kid in school and probably easily excitable about new minis and experimental rules.

Two weeks ago I bought my first WD in a decade (May issue 389) and after skimming through it I felt like I just wasted $12 that could of gone to a mini or some paint instead.

Asuryan wrote:I used to be love reading WD and Citadel Journal in the 90s, I admit I was a kid in school and probably easily excitable about new minis and experimental rules.

Two weeks ago I bought my first WD in a decade (May issue 389) and after skimming through it I felt like I just wasted $12 that could of gone to a mini or some paint instead.

I have this exact same feeling at the moment, although i am wondering if WD will make usable papermache to make some terain out of, so maybe it isn't all bad.

Bullockist wrote:

Asuryan wrote:I used to be love reading WD and Citadel Journal in the 90s, I admit I was a kid in school and probably easily excitable about new minis and experimental rules.

Two weeks ago I bought my first WD in a decade (May issue 389) and after skimming through it I felt like I just wasted $12 that could of gone to a mini or some paint instead.

I have this exact same feeling at the moment, although i am wondering if WD will make usable papermache to make some terain out of, so maybe it isn't all bad.

That's some damned expensive papier-mache Sure you can't just get a newspaper for cheap? Or even free?

unfortunately, i already bought this abortion of a magazine. I am trying to find a practical gain to my $11 spent on gak.
Now i think of it why is WD $11 and NQ $7.50...ooooh i see it costs so much to fund two "h"s in front of hobby!
seriosly anyone who reads a magazine with content confused as to why white dwarf is more?
unless of course the increasing mass of a white dwarf means the price goes up whilst the content goes down? For GW sake i'm hoping for a hhhobby supernova!

I stopped at 320 (would have been 300 but there were still some articles I liked, and after that I just wanted a round number)

I started...wow..hard to recall, I started off reading my dad's old White Dwarfs when I was really young, from the really early ones (issue 1) to some he bought later on, with the original metal Titans, and campaigns for WHRP, then I started buying my own ones from issue two hundred and something (when Epic 40,000 was released, or maybe a little before - had rules for 2nd edition Chapter Masters, as I recall)

As friends dropped out of the hobby I bought up collections, or just inherited them, filling up my backlog of issues, reading every single one cover-to-cover, keeping them in order and going back to them often.

Anyone who says White Dwarf right now is the best it's ever been in my presence is getting an honest-to-goodness slap in the face and a long history lesson

the three-hundreds is where I lost patience. I was paying more than ever for less interesting content, and I don't mean "Less content about my army", I mean less interesting content.

The issue where the White Lions of Chrace were first released made me want to play Warhammer, just so I could have them - not because the models were nice, but because the article went into their background, and the background of Chrace and Korhil and actually had relatively few pictures, just pages and pages of text (Probably lifted from the High Elf book, but who cares?)

the Stillmanic articles were lovely rambling things, discussing in depth aspects of the game and giving advice and never, ever directing you to buy something just because it was new. If Nigel Stillman ever read one of Jervis' articles, he would be ashamed.

People have gone over the many, many reasons why WD sucks for many years now, but my turning point was when I could read an issue and go "You know what? I have three hundred of your predecessors, any of whom I would rather be reading than you, and I don't have to pay for those"

Exactly what I could have written Charax. I had WDs from my dad in the early 100s and later bought them from 200-250. Started getting them increasingly less regularly after that. Last one I bought was #300 because it was an anniversary issue and I'm a sucker for those, but even then it was the first issue in a year or more. Based on content at the time I told myself I wouldn't pay more than £3.50 for an issue and when it went up I stuck to that. I used to flick through it in WHSmiths occasionally but even they don't sell it any more.

Like anything else if life, if you don't see the value for your $$$, don't buy it. I don't have any WD, but will be picking up this month's for the Ork Flyer rules. Otherwise, I just don't see the point in it.

OK, now I feel old with all this talk of reading dad's old White Dwarves - I still have them in MY collection (and I'm a dad). For the record, I think the golden age of WD was between issues 80-something to about 200, with articles, artwork, fiction and ever-improving figure detail and quality.

Ooh, I appear to have a speck of nostalgia in my eye...

Howard A Treesong wrote:Exactly what I could have written Charax. I had WDs from my dad in the early 100s and later bought them from 200-250. Started getting them increasingly less regularly after that. Last one I bought was #300 because it was an anniversary issue and I'm a sucker for those, but even then it was the first issue in a year or more. Based on content at the time I told myself I wouldn't pay more than £3.50 for an issue and when it went up I stuck to that. I used to flick through it in WHSmiths occasionally but even they don't sell it any more.

I collected from about 127 (my first issue, the Eldar one!) up to about 300 or so, with a year to two gap probably in the middle somewhere. I think it was probably at about 310 and onwards that the quality of the magazine (and by that, I mean the number of articles with some kind of journalistic content) got considerably worse.

Although, I have heard there will be a shake-up of the magazine, so hopefully the magazine will improve a little.

So, in the name of science I've decided to evaluate what looks to be my last WD for a while unless it suddenly goes uphill.

Now, remember...WD has always had a pattern in its contents. You have the first page editorial, about 6 pages of 'New Releases/News', then the standard fare of stuff with about 12 pages of adverts and the last 6-7 pages being store and event stuff, right?

Wow. Let's start this off properly.

Inside Cover and Page 1 - may as well be an ad.
Page 2 and 3 - May as well be an ad again.
Page 4 and 5 - ....Another pointless double-spread photograph?
Page 6 - Hey, look, an editorial appears.
Page 7 - ....An advert. For the new releases?
The next 16 pages are dedicated to three models. 6 of these are double spread photos which I'm pretty damn certain are entirely unneccessary. Wow. This is amazing. Out of 23 pages we've only had the equivalent content of 3.
Pages 24 to 27 - horribly simplistic painting guide. So simplistic that it literally gives no description of techniques whatsoever. You get photographs, the name of the paint used and a single word 'wash'. No advice like 'Don't let it pool' or 'thin it down'. No discussion of technique, nothing. This is a prime example of how bad these articles actually are.
Page 28 - This may as well be an advert. It's a 'checklist' of paints used in the painting article - if you add them all up the price is amazing. It takes up a page and does nothing.
Pages 29 to 45 - Fluff article on SM-Ork-Necron campaign. The only thing I don't like is how it blatantly consists of armies made from Assault on Black Reach models and crams the new flyer models in. Necrons almost seem tacked on because they've had a flyer. Amusingly enough they push the flyers.
Pages 46 to 48 - New Battle Mission. I like the Battle Missions. Obviously this has a flyer focus. Obviously it doesn't tell you what to do regarding armies that don't have 'fast skimmers'. Obviously 1 of these pages is wasted space of photographs of studio staff playing the mission.
Page 49 - Standard in stores this month page....waitaminute, why is this here and not in the very back like normal?
Pages 50 and 51 - Another advert. Yay?
Pages 52 to 61 - Army Painting workshop of AoBR armies. Just as bland as the first one in this issue. Sigh.
Page 62 - Mandatory paint checklist/advert.
Page 63 - AoBR advert. One month before a new edition.
Pages 64 and 65 - Standard Jervis waffle. Mentions the words 'flavour of the month' a few times. Kind of funny considering the content of this issue so far. Wonder if he grasps the concent of irony.
Pages 66 to 77 - This really is the ONLY flyer focus there should have been this month. Codex rules update article and galleries. Just the right amount. Anything else in this issue is blatantly excessive.
Pages 78 and 79 - Black Library adverts. One of them focuses on Deff Skwadron. Milking flyers much?
Pages 80 and 81 - Armies on Parade showcase. Acceptable.
Pages 82 and 83 - Warhammer Forge/Forge World advert. First 'Warhammer' content in this entire issue.
Pages 84 and 85 - Warhammer New Releases. 84 pages in. And AFTER an advert.
Pages 86 and 87 - Double spread finecast advert.
Pages 88 to 93 - A THIRD bland painting article. Seriously, give me a break.
Page 94 - Yet again, painting checklist. Adverts ftw.
Pages 95 to 97 - More adverts.
Pages 98 and 99 - Golden Demon showcase of Empire models. Acceptable, but still really feels like it belongs in the back.
Pages 100 to 103 - Scenery showcase but no real information in this at all. Bet you can guess what follows next.
Page 104 - Scenery advert! TADA!
Page 105 - News page. 105 pages in. What on Earth is going on with this?
Pages 106 to 119 - Community and store stuff. With adverts included.
Last page is your standard WD subscription advert.

Overall?

If I need to wipe my rear in an emergency I'm covered. That's all it's good for. Seriously.

Howard A Treesong wrote:I used to flick through it in WHSmiths occasionally but even they don't sell it any more.

I was in WHSmiths in Sheffield this morning and there it was on the shelf next to Wargames Illustrated.
I remember reading the news that it was no longer going to be sold there but haven't seen anything about a reversal of the decision.

Tbh what do you really expect from a mag from a company.

It is a monthly catalogue, always has been. It's sole purpose is to advertise the new releases.

It's the same as any video game mag, pushing the new shiny

pitboy2710 wrote:Tbh what do you really expect from a mag from a company.

Go check out No Quarter and Wargames Illustrated then come back here...

PhantomViper wrote:

pitboy2710 wrote:Tbh what do you really expect from a mag from a company.

Go check out No Quarter and Wargames Illustrated then come back here...

This. I first subscribed to WI last year, and I've just renewed my sub for a further 2 years & got free models as well.

It's a great read, exactly what a watgaming magazine should be like, not the worthless rag that WD is now.

I really hope that the plans to 'shake up' WD are true, and the rumoured bunch of new guys are the ones to do it, but at the moment it feels that the only way WD is going to get back on it's feet is if Nagash took over running it.

pitboy2710 wrote:It is a monthly catalogue, always has been.

No, it hasn't.

Charax wrote:

pitboy2710 wrote:It is a monthly catalogue, always has been.

No, it hasn't.

Agreed.

It hasn't. My collection started with WD 206 - and the 5th edition Lizardmen. You got a lot of content. Campaigns, tactical discussions, showcases, player army showcases, letters, store discussions. A LOT of content and a large amount of it had nothing to do with that month's new release.

I gave up shortly after issue 300 or whatever it was was with the limited edition white dwarf on shield model. i never subscribed to the thing because it wasn't always useful to me.

I find it a bit of a mixed bag really, i learned a lot from the old painting articles, but the battle reports always annoyed me, not because I care about the newest army winning, but because I'd rather be having a game of my own than reading about some other guys having a game.

The old terrain articles really aren't necessary anymore as GW makes superb terrain. They used to show how to make movement trays way back, but then they finally realised people would happily pay for them to be pre-made.

I loved the old fluff and experimental rules, but truth be told the GW back then was horribly slack, I had to wait for 2 years after starting lizardmen before half of the units available were actually made. Wood elves in those days could field chariots. The models for which never existed. The extra armies became a nightmare because people wanted to use them in tournaments and had to lug around a tattered old catalogue. Then they'd release a new army in the WD, make models for em too, and within 6 months it was cast aside. Anybody remember the kislev fiasco?

Like I said, it not just misty eyed nostalgia, the current WD is very glossy with no lasting appeal, but to be honest the old white dork catalogues had their faults too. But I do miss some of the old fluff they'd have in there, like the stories about the dark elf cultists and stuff. We also had that terrible fluff dealing with the snore of chaos incident too, where the largest army of undead the old world had ever seen marched on the badly battered gates of middenheim where a handful of traumatised survivors shivered behind their shields and sent their near death leader to tell the vampire lord of vampire lords to go back home. Which he duly did without so much as sucking anybody dry. Maybe that particular chapter sounded the death knell for WD having fluff content.

Honestly, this months White Dwarf didnt seem that bad (though past issues certainly have). You had an in-depth fluff account of a 3 way war between Necrons/Orks/White Scars, new rules/background for air units, etc..

Of course I dont have much to judge it by as I only have been collecting 40k for about a year.

@ Dark Star Sabre - Yes, a spot on summary of this month's issue...

...unfortunately

seems like there's enough gripe here to do one of two things:
-Start a monthly Dakka paper; and or,
-send a heartfelt letter of complaint to WD along with your subscription cancellation notification.

I've got a friend and at first, it was a slow insidious creep of Privateer Press' publication, and then one day I was over and the White dwarf had damn near dissapeared, replaced by No Quarter.

My opinion is to stop whining. I don't care if you cancelled your subscription or think WD is a pile of gak.

WD is the first means "solid means" to get the new information, obviously it's going to talk about in some depth whatever the new model or rule or something in general is.

I've never gotten a subscription for the simple reason that I don't really want to read something about WHFB or LOTR (Less so for LOTR) that's why I've always bought the WD that intrests me, this flyers one being one of them.

Do what I do, go for a month by month basis.
Also for the love of god stop calling things Newcrons, they're necrons and they're new get over it and stop trying to make things sound so bleak.

The world's not over...

Well, the thing is apparently there is going to be a re-organisation of WD from the ground up. So, the excessive fan complaints (and, apparently from within GW itself for that matter) have not gone unheeded.

Whether this will bring WD up to anything like its previous glories remains to be seen, but it makes the whole process of 'complaint' against things which are a pile of poo a whole lot more valid.

InquisitorVaron wrote:My opinion is to stop whining. I don't care if you cancelled your subscription or think WD is a pile of gak.

WD is the first means "solid means" to get the new information, obviously it's going to talk about in some depth whatever the new model or rule or something in general is.

I've never gotten a subscription for the simple reason that I don't really want to read something about WHFB or LOTR (Less so for LOTR) that's why I've always bought the WD that intrests me, this flyers one being one of them.

Do what I do, go for a month by month basis.
Also for the love of god stop calling things Newcrons, they're necrons and they're new get over it and stop trying to make things sound so bleak.

The world's not over...

youre bloody new to the wargaming hobby it seems to me. I'm not exactly new, but i distinctly remember GW encouraging people to convert and offering lots of help in that regard. No such thing anymore. They make offical models for everything, and the "information" in WD is crap. Darkstarsabre gives us plenty of reason not to buy WD. I have a mini WD magazine from years ago, handed out as a promotion. Even those 30 odd pages have more actual content than a typical WD magazine now.

I remember one from ages ago for a Tyranid release I think. Three page in depth guide on strategy for dealing with them, a page or two showing converted MC for the nidzilla they mentioned. A tutorial for making digestion pits for them (showed off the water effects, but that was the only GW product used in the tutorial). I think maybe a guide to make rocky cliffs and a LoTR bridge earlier on in it as well. Out of the three guides the only time it mentioned to buy a GW model was for the bridge and that was just standard LoTR infantry to make into a cool looking statue by cutting it up a bit and making it look damaged nicely.

poda_t wrote:seems like there's enough gripe here to do one of two things:
-Start a monthly Dakka paper; and or,
-send a heartfelt letter of complaint to WD along with your subscription cancellation notification.

I've got a friend and at first, it was a slow insidious creep of Privateer Press' publication, and then one day I was over and the White dwarf had damn near dissapeared, replaced by No Quarter.

I thought we were starting one before, but it seems to have stalled. They'd ignore the letter and mourn the lost revenue for a minute or so.

Kaldor wrote:

Lord of Timbraxia wrote:WD and I have always had a special relationship. Since I was five years old

You want to know the major change with WD since you were 5 years old?

I'll give you a hint: It's not the magazine. It's the fact that you were five years old.

You probably don't watch sesame street anymore either.

This is off topic, but this is a great quote.. lol.. But I will agree, over the years its been getting painful to see how the magazine has changed..

ruff wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

Lord of Timbraxia wrote:WD and I have always had a special relationship. Since I was five years old

You want to know the major change with WD since you were 5 years old?

I'll give you a hint: It's not the magazine. It's the fact that you were five years old.

You probably don't watch sesame street anymore either.

This is off topic, but this is a great quote.. lol.. But I will agree, over the years its been getting painful to see how the magazine has changed..

Yeah. While there's a lot of nostalgia involved, it's a multi layered problem. For starters, people ten years ago were younger (some of them very young) and more easily impressed. Further, the longer you've been playing something the more you come to understand it. I can rattle off the stats and rules for almost every unit in every army, and the best uses for those units against any other combination of units in any other army. There is no tactica article that GW could write that I wouldn't consider wasted pages. However, compare that to Warmachine where I've been playing for a much shorter period of time and playing much less regularly, and almost any tactics article will be useful. If you are a long term player of GW games, chances are there is simply nothing left for them to offer you any more.

These are issues that GW can do nothing about.

Granted, the quality has dropped off as well, but given the availability of free content on the internet what motivation is there for GW to up the quality of their own content? They'll never be able to match the freely available articles and tutorials created by passionate hobbyists.

How do you explain the how to paint books then? All of that crap is available for free as well yet they seem important enough to warrant their own book. Some of these free tutorials likely exist due to the lack of them in WD. Pure speculation though looking at the gap some may feel the need to help pass on these skills.

The tutorials could also help push the new product. New Space Marines? How about a tutorial to make a shrine dedicated to fallen Astartes and an in depth battle report to show it off. Could even sprinkle a few GW bits here and there for more sales. But, instead we eventually got them recommending movement trays over plasticard and just dropping it completely.

Kaldor wrote:
Granted, the quality has dropped off as well, but given the availability of free content on the internet what motivation is there for GW to up the quality of their own content? .

That $11 you just payed for the magazine. Shouldn't GW be trying to increase readership?

Kaldor wrote:

Yeah. While there's a lot of nostalgia involved, it's a multi layered problem. For starters, people ten years ago were younger (some of them very young) and more easily impressed. Further, the longer you've been playing something the more you come to understand it. I can rattle off the stats and rules for almost every unit in every army, and the best uses for those units against any other combination of units in any other army. There is no tactica article that GW could write that I wouldn't consider wasted pages. However, compare that to Warmachine where I've been playing for a much shorter period of time and playing much less regularly, and almost any tactics article will be useful. If you are a long term player of GW games, chances are there is simply nothing left for them to offer you any more.

These are issues that GW can do nothing about.

Granted, the quality has dropped off as well, but given the availability of free content on the internet what motivation is there for GW to up the quality of their own content? They'll never be able to match the freely available articles and tutorials created by passionate hobbyists.

Ah. Problem number the first. The older generation is being squeezed out, ignored and kicked out of the hobby and younger kids are being targeted. Because of this, they could keep recycling articles and adding more tips and keep expanding on old concepts. There's tons of material to keep rehashing because new players come all the time, and incidentally, as a new army emerges, a new counter needs to develop from a given army against said new army. New bits come out, new conversions, new painting tips... as the paint colors change you can redo the same paint blurb, just replace all the paint names....

what you think there's anything new coming out every month in cosmo? 90% of that is non news and old beanz