6th and what not

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**marielle**

Baronyu wrote:
marielle wrote:Random charge distance and pre-measuring is actually reinforcing the skill of judging distance. The only difference is the assessment now is not binary - are they in or out - but factors in elements that some might like to call chance (but is no different to judging the chance elements involved in shooting and combat)

3rd time in this thread, if random charge distance is a way to improve the whole judging distance, experience, etc whatever you guys wanna call it, but if these changes are to "improve" the game in some way or the other, I must ask again: Why do they only apply to assault? Wouldn't rolling 4D6 or so for each gun be far more entertaining as well? May be your tactical marine was distracted by a butterfly during the shooting phase!

It also cuts down on cheating within the game - if you think the rubber ruler is action, just measure it yourself - and cuts down on arguments. It also makes the game move faster.

Having to roll 2 dice in the assault phase, possibly pre-measuring before hand, possibly re-rolling if you have rules that allow, is hardly faster than 5th ed's declare-charge-and-you-are-charged, in fact, I'd even go as far as calling it slower.

However, it'll certainly make it "faster" if a lot of people forgo assault units and bring more shooting instead, so I'll give you that.

Oh and when you get the hang of it you can set baits and traps, and force the opponent to make moves that are to your advantage.

How is that not possible in 5th ed? And what if your so-called "baits and traps" failed? Is this what good generals do? "We'll fire in the sky and hope the wind will carry our bullet to the target."?

Pardon my sarcasm, but none of what you said made any sense to me!

It's not sarcasm, I'm not sure what it is but it is not sarcasm.

But whatever...

1) Don't you already roll 2D6 to resolve successful shooting attacks.

2) it is faster because generally both players will have measured the distance before the charge declarations, so it is just a matter of rolling the dice.

3) Good generals make allowance for friction, bad generals blame poor fire control.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Negator80 wrote:Perhaps you should roll an artillery dice to determine the direction you charge as well? That would make just as much sense, and be viable based on the same rationalization thats being used to justify random distance.

If you want to do this when playing me then go ahead, and if you run into your own troops then I expect you to attack them as well.

As for every other game, I'll just assess the potential threat range and make plans based on that.

**Baronyu**

1) I..I'm lost, sorry. When do we roll 2D6 for shooting...? Or do you mean the to hit/wound/save/FNP? Because those are still in for assault, but what I was saying is that, you don't have to roll for range for guns, as posters on 2nd page have pointed out, a gun could also fail to hit its intended range due to numerous factor.

2) But isn't it faster if we just measure the 6" once, by one player, then roll the dice for the overwatch and the combat?

3) But, if you read my earlier post, I think it was in the 1st page, a fun tactical element should be, for example, using my DL threat bubble to keep your vehicles/terminators/etc away? Or using several units to form a meatshield to protect a valuable asset? Or choosing to take out the immediate threat of an assault unit, or risk it all and fire at that heavy fire unit? Wouldn't that be more interesting? How exactly are you going to get "used to" random assault distance? You'd probably just settle for a safe distance you're comfortable with and always charge from there.

Oh, and I meant no offense, sorry. :( Am in a funny mood.

**marielle**

Baronyu wrote:1) I..I'm lost, sorry. When do we roll 2D6 for shooting...? Or do you mean the to hit/wound/save/FNP? Because those are still in for assault, but what I was saying is that, you don't have to roll for range for guns, as posters on 2nd page have pointed out, a gun could also fail to hit its intended range due to numerous factor.

2) But isn't it faster if we just measure the 6" once, by one player, then roll the dice for the overwatch and the combat?

3) But, if you read my earlier post, I think it was in the 1st page, a fun tactical element should be, for example, using my DL threat bubble to keep your vehicles/terminators/etc away? Or using several units to form a meatshield to protect a valuable asset? Or choosing to take out the immediate threat of an assault unit, or risk it all and fire at that heavy fire unit? Wouldn't that be more interesting? How exactly are you going to get "used to" random assault distance? You'd probably just settle for a safe distance you're comfortable with and always charge from there.

Oh, and I meant no offense, sorry. :( Am in a funny mood.

1) roll 1d6 to hit and 1d6 to wound = 2d6 - the range thing is superfluous as there are not random ranges in the game.

2) Yes, but in 5th as no one has made any measurements, it opens all kinds of arguments as to whether it is 6"s or 6.25" - particularly in a binary system in which one player is deliberately moving less than the max (to stop the charge) and the other is moving more than the max (to ensure the charge). The dice rolls for overwatch etc will take far less time than the discussions revolving around the implication of cheating.

3) You can still do all you say. Plus you appear to make the assumption that the assaulter will not get into combat. The experience of WFB is that this is not the case and that generally combat occurs in the 2nd turn onwards, where in 7th it was not joined until the 3rd turn and onwards. There are ways to avoid it, if you really don't want to, hence my comment about controlling the enemy movement.

**TerminalDragon**

I agree with OP. My main reason for this being that I myself have atrocious "luck". The only things I don't roll low for is Leadership, although I play SM so it's all gravy. Most of the time.

This rule allows for more sitting still with a long range weapon and blasting the hell out of the enemy and if they do charge you have the chance to kill them anyway.

Good one GW. Good one.

**Talon31**

Do we mean scatter dice when we say artillery dice??

**IPS**

haven't read through all of this thread, but yea the randomness does seem like an easy way for GW to "balance" their game..

this way everybody will win some games and loose some, no matter how good the army is or how good you play.
(that's also why I personally think the pancake edition was much better than the actual 6th...it wasn't perfect, but it allowed much more tactic.>< )