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Horst wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:

dogma wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Unemployment indicates that you have skills and standards; the other shows you don't even have pride in yourself.

Neither indicates either, the point is that they aren't substantively different on a resume. Working fast food won't kill your career, but it won't help it either. Its a means to an end, that end being enough money to eat while you're going to school, buy a suit, or otherwise get a job better than fast food.

This is, of course, assuming you can get a job in fast food.

I would never hire someone with an education of any sort that's been flipping burgers at McDonald's, as to me their resume stinks of desperation and I would assume that there is something wrong with the candidate. Otherwise, why would they ever work at an entry-level fast food job after going to school?

Yea, thats a pretty damn poor attitude. I hope to god your never in any kind of position of power.

Most people echo that sentiment.

I think that someone who is young, in school, and working shows a good level of dedication. Especially if that person has been able to keep the same job for a few years, if I see someone who is working most places for only 1 year max then I'll guess that they will probably do the same to me and I would just be wasting resources in training the guy to perform.

If I see someone with an education who has been flipping burgers then I'm going to guess that the market's been tough on them but they're willing to do work, and that willingness to work is what most employers should look for.

Nocturn wrote:

Horst wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:

dogma wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Unemployment indicates that you have skills and standards; the other shows you don't even have pride in yourself.

Neither indicates either, the point is that they aren't substantively different on a resume. Working fast food won't kill your career, but it won't help it either. Its a means to an end, that end being enough money to eat while you're going to school, buy a suit, or otherwise get a job better than fast food.

This is, of course, assuming you can get a job in fast food.

I would never hire someone with an education of any sort that's been flipping burgers at McDonald's, as to me their resume stinks of desperation and I would assume that there is something wrong with the candidate. Otherwise, why would they ever work at an entry-level fast food job after going to school?

Yea, thats a pretty damn poor attitude. I hope to god your never in any kind of position of power.

Most people echo that sentiment.

"Most people" haven't had to re-hire dozens of people because the original candidates were impossible to work with at jobs that require a level of maturity and professionalism beyond being a seasonal grill cook. Training costs money. Lots of it. That means you have to run risk-assessment on your applicants, and weed out as many potential problems as you can before you have to pay for those problems yourself, such as firing and re-hiring someone else. You wanna measure twice, cut once.

If I see a resume that lists someone with a computer science degree, and then two years working in a tech field, followed by eight months at KFC, then I'm going to discount that person from the hiring process, because the odds of that person being crazy are exponentially higher than if somene with the same background listed unemployment for 8 months intead of KFC. And currently, it's a buyer's market. So if I can narrow the options of ten candidates down to seven candidates just by discounting anyone currently frying chicken, I will

Now, if the unemployment timeframe is significantly long (say, 100+ weeks) then that's a different story.

And if you think the corporate world works any different than that, you are in for a depressing surprise.

halonachos wrote:I think that someone who is young, in school, and working shows a good level of dedication. Especially if that person has been able to keep the same job for a few years, if I see someone who is working most places for only 1 year max then I'll guess that they will probably do the same to me and I would just be wasting resources in training the guy to perform.

If I see someone with an education who has been flipping burgers then I'm going to guess that the market's been tough on them but they're willing to do work, and that willingness to work is what most employers should look for.

"willingness to work" not not really equate to "skilled worker"; in fact often it's an inverse correlation. Most employers such as entry-level retail (aka slave labour) love seeing resumes of people who can demonstrate that they are willing to work, irrespective of pride. Because they're the desperate, or at least the ones that can be pushed around. The ones that don't need to be paid overtime because they can't afford to quit; the ones that will work hard for the recognition of middle-management without needing an actual pay increase.

However, if you're hiring for a skilled field, then "willingness to work" completely takes a backseat to relevant experience and skill.

azazel the cat wrote:
If I see a resume that lists someone with a computer science degree, and then two years working in a tech field, followed by eight months at KFC, then I'm going to discount that person from the hiring process, because the odds of that person being crazy are exponentially higher than if somene with the same background listed unemployment for 8 months intead of KFC. And currently, it's a buyer's market. So if I can narrow the options of ten candidates down to seven candidates just by discounting anyone currently frying chicken, I will

Admittedly it isn't the same across the board. Companies like Goldman Sachs can pick and choose because everyone wants to work there, but the local credit union can't. The trick when you're starting out is making sure your resume isn't just one more in a stack of hundreds, or thousands, but one in a stack of ten.

An HR guy sees ten applications, then all people with the right education/experience get interviews because he needs to justify his own job as well.

azazel the cat wrote:
However, if you're hiring for a skilled field, then "willingness to work" completely takes a backseat to relevant experience and skill.

Yes, because "willingness to work" in that instance is basically "willingness to be trained" and, as you said, that costs money.

How about avoiding the crappy KFC job and go for something higher up in Service? I've had my 2 years as a boss-boy in a 4 stars on my resume since I've had a resume, and had a few positive comments about it during interviews.

2 years as a boss-boy = Willingness to do whatever the frak your boss tells you to do. That's a plus in just about every interview, except those in Azazel's world, apparently...

Relapse wrote:
After 15 years! Ouch. My hat's off to you for bulling through the depression you must have felt losing that job. It's a sad sign of the times when someone who had obviously proven themselves as worth having around for that long can be let go. No one is safe.

I didn't get depressed about it. I don't get depressed at all. I'm pretty emotionally stable, really. No great big swings either way, so whilst I don't know the feelings of soul-destroying ennui, I also can't feel ecstatic joy. Fair trade from my POV.

Just hit up all of the local places with similar jobs and answered one newspaper spot. Had a new job paying double what I used to make starting the following monday. Phoned the old boss up a few weeks after, thanking him for giving me the boot. He was surprised by my call and attitude. I said I was now making double what I was (hourly rate) and working fewer hours (with a nine-day fortnight). He wasn't too happy then.

The second redundancy wasn't so bad. They were contracted by the state government for FIVE years, then the government broke the contract without due cause (cue breach of contract payouts). We got pro-rata redundancy payouts (under 5 years employment usually doesn't qualify for ANY redundancy payouts) since the employer got a huge payout, they decided to pass some of it on to their workforce.

dogma wrote:Anyway, my advice to you is the same advice my old man gave me: "Don't beat yourself, the world will do enough of that."

Now ain't that the fething truth.

burgers at McDonald's, as to me their resume stinks of desperation and I would assume that there is something wrong with the candidate. Otherwise, why would they ever work at an entry-level fast food job after going to school?

I would never let someone be in a position to hire or fire anyone who said that.

azazel the cat wrote:

dogma wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Unemployment indicates that you have skills and standards; the other shows you don't even have pride in yourself.

Neither indicates either, the point is that they aren't substantively different on a resume. Working fast food won't kill your career, but it won't help it either. Its a means to an end, that end being enough money to eat while you're going to school, buy a suit, or otherwise get a job better than fast food.

This is, of course, assuming you can get a job in fast food.

I would never hire someone with an education of any sort that's been flipping burgers at McDonald's, as to me their resume stinks of desperation and I would assume that there is something wrong with the candidate. Otherwise, why would they ever work at an entry-level fast food job after going to school?

What about people trying to support their kids in a tight job market until something opens up? The news is full of stories about highly intelligent and skilled people in that situation.

schadenfreude wrote:

dogma wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:
It's also an indication that the perspective employee has a crappy sense of entitlement, is not a team player, and will often refuse to do work that they deem to be "beneath them".

And a smart employer will understand that there actually is work that is beneath some employees. You don't tell the CNC programmer to clean the bathroom. Not because you're wasting his time, but because you're wasting your money.

Moreover, you don't hire a CNC programmer to clean your bathroom, because he will leave as soon as he finds a better job. And he is looking for a better job.

Nobody is asking a CNC programmer to clean bathrooms or mop floors, but the way I see it if a CNC programmer spills his own cup of coffee on the tile floor of an employee lounge the CNC programmer has 1 of 2 options.

Option #1 Use a paper towel to soak up the mess so there isn't a slip hazard on the floor.

Option #2 Exercise a crappy sense of entitlement, refuse to clean up your own damn mess, and leave a potential slip hazard for other employees on the floor until someone else cleans it up.

No no there is option three and four.
Option #3: whip out your handy wiener dog. They'll take care of that mess down to the last molecule.
Option #4: lay down and claim worker's comp?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kovnik Obama wrote:How about avoiding the crappy KFC job and go for something higher up in Service? I've had my 2 years as a boss-boy in a 4 stars on my resume since I've had a resume, and had a few positive comments about it during interviews.

2 years as a boss-boy = Willingness to do whatever the frak your boss tells you to do. That's a plus in just about every interview, except those in Azazel's world, apparently...

Whats a boss boy?

Dogma, it also depends on industry. In the E&P space and certain manufacturing industries with high business cylcle fluctuations, this is not uncommon especially among older employees that have had to scrap by for periods working anywhere to put food on the table for families. Those were the ones you wanted to hire. They had hunger.

Grakmar wrote:I know what you said, but this is all I heard:

"Hi everyone. I'm unemployed. I only want to work in a field that requires a degree, but getting that degree is too much work.

I don't even bother to apply for jobs, because it's too much work.

I like sitting at home and not doing anything. Please send me money."


Seriously, stop smoking so much pot and either go get a job that isn't ideal, or go back to school.

I read this thread. I still fidn this post to be the most truthful.

/thread

Frazzled wrote:
Dogma, it also depends on industry. In the E&P space and certain manufacturing industries with high business cylcle fluctuations, this is not uncommon especially among older employees that have had to scrap by for periods working anywhere to put food on the table for families. Those were the ones you wanted to hire. They had hunger.

True, industry expectations affect the issue a great deal. As does age, and the story you can attach to why you were working out of industry. The newly graduated political science student gets less credit for working fast food than the 40 year-old guy with a family to feed because, generally, the fresh graduate had to the time to be interning as well.

I think the take away from this is that complete dead space on a resume will attract negative attention. If you can't find full time work in your field, you should be doing what you can in the field, like interning, taking classes, volunteer work, gigs, whatever.

If you can't afford to not work, than work where you can, but you'd better hope that you've got skills that'll eventually get you a job.

Frazzled wrote:
Whats a boss boy?

The dude that does everything the servers and the Maitre d' tells him to, including the server's job, but doesn't get to keep tips at the end...


... yeah...


2 years...

gah, two years unemployment, that would make me miserable
chilling at home by choice, fine, sitting at home because i have nothing else, hell.
i spent near on a year job hunting before i got on at my current job of the last 2.5 years, and even with the crap i sometimes have to deal with,i still wouldn't want to go back to endless broke freetime

I joined the military right after high school and became a forward observer so I didn't realy sweat it. Do my 3 yrs, get out and go to college. Finish off my obligation in the reserve or guards for the final 5 yrs just for beer money. I was nine months out from ETS and they install a ATM looking job search machine at Cross Creek Mall in Fayetteville. (Ft Bragg NC) SO I gave it a shot and see what was available in my local hometown area for work. It was 5-6 pages of security guard positions. I pulled enough guard duty to really not appreciate that. Went back to the room...drank a six pack, went to bed and talked to Reenlistment the next day to join aviation for six years.

I don't blame you, after doing eight years of it I wouldn't think you'd want the a lifetime more of the same...

Kovnik Obama wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
Whats a boss boy?

The dude that does everything the servers and the Maitre d' tells him to, including the server's job, but doesn't get to keep tips at the end...


... yeah...


2 years...

Mate, I think you mean to say that you were a busboy.