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Lets be honest, if you wanted to/had to work OP you would be.

It's just that you clearly don't have to. If blokes can travel half way across the world and land a job anyone can get off their arse and get one in the same country.

I got made redundant about 3 years ago; I was looking at leaving anyway so it was actually a nice little (big) bonus for me. I had to wait 4 months for my new job to start so popped down the dole office to sign on to recover a little of my tax money.

I nearly laughed out loud when they told me I was;
a) Allowed to sign on after explaining the whole situation
b) Didn’t have to take a job (and therefore stop benefits) unless it was for at least my last salary!

What a joke, no wonder people can not work for many years and not really be too hung up on it.

notprop wrote:Lets be honest, if you wanted to/had to work OP you would be.

It's just that you clearly don't have to. If blokes can travel half way across the world and land a job anyone can get off their arse and get one in the same country.

I got made redundant about 3 years ago; I was looking at leaving anyway so it was actually a nice little (big) bonus for me. I had to wait 4 months for my new job to start so popped down the dole office to sign on to recover a little of my tax money.

I nearly laughed out loud when they told me I was;
a) Allowed to sign on after explaining the whole situation
b) Didn’t have to take a job (and therefore stop benefits) unless it was for at least my last salary!

What a joke, no wonder people can not work for many years and not really be too hung up on it.

Superdave is in charge now though, so hopefully those namby pampy labour rules about letting you fething malinger on the dole for 27 years are close to being eradicated.. and judging by the amount of complaining all the people on wellfare and disablity are doing in my local (I am a vocal Tory and as such deal with hearty amounts of abuse from my peers) I would say he is doing exactly what is says on the tory tin.

I didn't want to be unemployed, so I emigrated. It's been a good experience. Now I want different things from my job, so I'm emigrating again. Or I suppose, emigrating further east.

Like the lads are saying, there are ways out of these situations, though they are rarely easy. I am at an advantage because I've achieved a pretty decent degree that provides me with employment opportunities- but it's not like said degree fell into my lap with no effort.

CGBSpender wrote:I live in Canada, north of Toronto, and I am currently unemployed.

It is summer in southern Ontario, and you can't find a job? I just don't believe it.

notprop wrote:Lets be honest, if you wanted to/had to work OP you would be. It's just that you clearly don't have to.

This. Have fun when the tap runs dry.

OP: If you honestly cannot find a job in southern Ontario, head west to Saskatchewan or Alberta. Lots of work on oil rigs and in the oil fields. Lots of oppurtunities and very good paying too.

I got made redundant TWICE inside 5 years. The first time was after being with a company for 15 years. The second, barely two.

I was out of work both times for about 6-9 months. I found work, without assistance. I have no degree, no lofty ideals, and I was willing to do whatever it took to stop being unemployed.

Unemployment sucks, but it, like everything else, can end if you are sufficiently motivated to end it.

Sometimes it's a matter of scale. Unemployment (which I've been paying into) would probably pay me significant more to sit on my ass "looking" for jobs than the first gakky warehouse box moving job would, simply because of how much I make now. Why work 40 hours a week busting your ass for less than what you could have sitting on it? At least until you find a similar job, finding work for the sake of finding work is not always the most reasonable course of action.

Love the title.... look harder lol

daedalus wrote:At least until you find a similar job, finding work for the sake of finding work is not always the most reasonable course of action.

Many jobs are also just white space, at least for all intents and purposes.

No one cares if you worked at Subway, or pissed around on the internet. Hell, pissing around on the internet might develop more useful skills.

chromedog wrote:I got made redundant TWICE inside 5 years. The first time was after being with a company for 15 years. The second, barely two.

I was out of work both times for about 6-9 months. I found work, without assistance. I have no degree, no lofty ideals, and I was willing to do whatever it took to stop being unemployed.

Unemployment sucks, but it, like everything else, can end if you are sufficiently motivated to end it.

After 15 years! Ouch. My hat's off to you for bulling through the depression you must have felt losing that job. It's a sad sign of the times when someone who had obviously proven themselves as worth having around for that long can be let go. No one is safe.

Flip burgers or mop floors until you can find a job in your field because the job market is very competitive right now. Nobody is going to hire anybody into a professional position that has a giant gap in their employment history. It's less appealing to perspective employers than a felony conviction.

Come to Australia. Go to the mining fields and charge 50 to 100 percent MORE than government standard for accountancy.

Seriously though, I was unemployed for 4 years after school, looked for work for about 3 months and now I am in my 4th year at the same job and have job security with them.

Or go work in the fishing industry. It might be hard, physical and risky work, but you get paid thousands of dollars a week.

schadenfreude wrote:Flip burgers or mop floors until you can find a job in your field because the job market is very competitive right now. Nobody is going to hire anybody into a professional position that has a giant gap in their employment history. It's less appealing to perspective employers than a felony conviction.

That's assinine.

Try running an experiment: type up two identical resumes (make sure you meet qualifications) and then change one resume to reflect being currently unemployed, and the other to reflect being a line cook at Burger King for the past six months.

Then see which resume actually gets you a phone call.

Changing from some type of tech/office work to asking "do you want fries with that" is a death sentence to your career. Unemployment indicates that you have skills and standards; the other shows you don't even have pride in yourself.

azazel the cat wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:Flip burgers or mop floors until you can find a job in your field because the job market is very competitive right now. Nobody is going to hire anybody into a professional position that has a giant gap in their employment history. It's less appealing to perspective employers than a felony conviction.

That's assinine.

Try running an experiment: type up two identical resumes (make sure you meet qualifications) and then change one resume to reflect being currently unemployed, and the other to reflect being a line cook at Burger King for the past six months.

Then see which resume actually gets you a phone call.

Changing from some type of tech/office work to asking "do you want fries with that" is a death sentence to your career. Unemployment indicates that you have skills and standards; the other shows you don't even have pride in yourself.

One indicates that you feel that you are too good to do something that is below your own standards.

One indicates that you are willing to do what you have to in order to get the job done.

We have actually had this discussion before. Fast food companies aren't built around giving everyone a job just to get by. As far as bringing money in it is better than nothing, but it doesn't really help that much on a resume. You would almost have to lie about finishing your degree because if they think you would quit at the drop of a hat for an accounting position, which you would, they are less likely to hire you. I remember in the thread Dogma talking about how he couldn't get hired at Burger King at barely above minimum wage but got a job at a gym for quite a lot above minimum wage. Honestly the better bet is temp services.

I was laid off from Target nine months before getting a full time legal position.

I dunno. Working brings in money. Not working is usually a sign that you don't need or want to.

azazel the cat wrote:Unemployment indicates that you have skills and standards; the other shows you don't even have pride in yourself.

Neither indicates either, the point is that they aren't substantively different on a resume. Working fast food won't kill your career, but it won't help it either. Its a means to an end, that end being enough money to eat while you're going to school, buy a suit, or otherwise get a job better than fast food.

This is, of course, assuming you can get a job in fast food.

dogma wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Unemployment indicates that you have skills and standards; the other shows you don't even have pride in yourself.

Neither indicates either, the point is that they aren't substantively different on a resume. Working fast food won't kill your career, but it won't help it either. Its a means to an end, that end being enough money to eat while you're going to school, buy a suit, or otherwise get a job better than fast food.

This is, of course, assuming you can get a job in fast food.

I would never hire someone with an education of any sort that's been flipping burgers at McDonald's, as to me their resume stinks of desperation and I would assume that there is something wrong with the candidate. Otherwise, why would they ever work at an entry-level fast food job after going to school?

azazel the cat wrote:

dogma wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Unemployment indicates that you have skills and standards; the other shows you don't even have pride in yourself.

Neither indicates either, the point is that they aren't substantively different on a resume. Working fast food won't kill your career, but it won't help it either. Its a means to an end, that end being enough money to eat while you're going to school, buy a suit, or otherwise get a job better than fast food.

This is, of course, assuming you can get a job in fast food.

I would never hire someone with an education of any sort that's been flipping burgers at McDonald's, as to me their resume stinks of desperation and I would assume that there is something wrong with the candidate. Otherwise, why would they ever work at an entry-level fast food job after going to school?

Yea, thats a pretty damn poor attitude. I hope to god your never in any kind of position of power.

azazel the cat wrote:

dogma wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Unemployment indicates that you have skills and standards; the other shows you don't even have pride in yourself.

Neither indicates either, the point is that they aren't substantively different on a resume. Working fast food won't kill your career, but it won't help it either. Its a means to an end, that end being enough money to eat while you're going to school, buy a suit, or otherwise get a job better than fast food.

This is, of course, assuming you can get a job in fast food.

I would never hire someone with an education of any sort that's been flipping burgers at McDonald's, as to me their resume stinks of desperation and I would assume that there is something wrong with the candidate. Otherwise, why would they ever work at an entry-level fast food job after going to school?

Ever here the phrase "Unemployed need not apply"

Employers will look at a 100 week gap in unemployment as an indication that the job candidate is a lazy bum, has no work ethic, and will only put forth the minimal effort necessary to avoid being fired until they have been employed long enough to collect unemployment if let go. It's also an indication that the perspective employee has a crappy sense of entitlement, is not a team player, and will often refuse to do work that they deem to be "beneath them". Those are assumptions a perspective employer won't make about the poor guy working a crap job at the time of an application.

azazel the cat wrote:I would never hire someone with an education of any sort that's been flipping burgers at McDonald's, as to me their resume stinks of desperation and I would assume that there is something wrong with the candidate. Otherwise, why would they ever work at an entry-level fast food job after going to school?

The job I do could be considered quite far beneath my educational/skill level but I've done it now for about 3-4 years while my wife finished up her professional training and while I furthered my education (as we didn't want to live apart and there are no jobs in the fields I wish to work in here). Even if I could have afforded to spend this time collecting money from the government, I would much rather have worked doing pretty much anything and I feel that prospective future employers in the fields that I am interested in working in will see that I have the drive and dedication to do what needs doing even if I don't have direct experience in the job role they want to fill.

When I start applying to jobs towards the end of my course, I will be more than hopeful of getting interviews and with any luck I should get a job reasonably quickly because, in no small part, I have a solid work history, will have good job and character references and (hopefully) good academic references and grades too.

Working or not working while student is different then working or not working when you aren't a student.

A twenty year old in college that has gone 2 years without working won't really raise any eyebrows whereas a 26 year old that hasn't been a student for at least 4 years that has 2 years of unemployment will find it problematic.

schadenfreude wrote:
It's also an indication that the perspective employee has a crappy sense of entitlement, is not a team player, and will often refuse to do work that they deem to be "beneath them".

And a smart employer will understand that there actually is work that is beneath some employees. You don't tell the CNC programmer to clean the bathroom. Not because you're wasting his time, but because you're wasting your money.

Moreover, you don't hire a CNC programmer to clean your bathroom, because he will leave as soon as he finds a better job. And he is looking for a better job.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Horst wrote:
Yea, thats a pretty damn poor attitude. I hope to god your never in any kind of position of power.

Its pretty much the attitude our HR guys have. If all you've been doing for 2 years is work at McDonalds, then you were unemployed.

Again, it won't kill your career, but if that's all you have on your resume then there's an issue. I mean, just speaking to my job, I would rather see a guy with no work experience at all, but loads of coursework, than one with a mixed bag of both. At least assuming the work experience was in retail, fast food, or some such.

CGBSpender wrote:On the flip side, I kind of like being unemployed. I have lots of time on my hands to spend time with friends and family, and this hobby we all enjoy so very much.

Funny, when I was unemployed for several months I didn't have the money to do gak. I had to rummage around for old things I had if I wanted to do some occasional hobbying and I hardly went out the house other than to go down the job centre and to post things I'd sold on eBay. I found it humiliating and shameful.

dogma wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:
It's also an indication that the perspective employee has a crappy sense of entitlement, is not a team player, and will often refuse to do work that they deem to be "beneath them".

And a smart employer will understand that there actually is work that is beneath some employees. You don't tell the CNC programmer to clean the bathroom. Not because you're wasting his time, but because you're wasting your money.

Moreover, you don't hire a CNC programmer to clean your bathroom, because he will leave as soon as he finds a better job. And he is looking for a better job.

Nobody is asking a CNC programmer to clean bathrooms or mop floors, but the way I see it if a CNC programmer spills his own cup of coffee on the tile floor of an employee lounge the CNC programmer has 1 of 2 options.

Option #1 Use a paper towel to soak up the mess so there isn't a slip hazard on the floor.

Option #2 Exercise a crappy sense of entitlement, refuse to clean up your own damn mess, and leave a potential slip hazard for other employees on the floor until someone else cleans it up.

schadenfreude wrote:
Nobody is asking a CNC programmer to clean bathrooms or mop floors, but the way I see it if a CNC programmer spills his own cup of coffee on the tile floor of an employee lounge the CNC programmer has 1 of 2 options.

Option #1 Use a paper towel to soak up the mess so there isn't a slip hazard on the floor.

Option #2 Exercise a crappy sense of entitlement, refuse to clean up your own damn mess, and leave a potential slip hazard for other employees on the floor until someone else cleans it up.

That's not work, that's not being a dick.

I assumed by "entitlement" you meant refusing to do something at your place of employment because it was out of your job description or "below your pay grade."

schadenfreude wrote:Nobody is asking a CNC programmer to clean bathrooms or mop floors

If the CNC Operator's job was outsourced and there are no CNC Operator jobs waiting for them, they may have to get a job that asks them to clean bathrooms or mop floors.

dogma wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:
Nobody is asking a CNC programmer to clean bathrooms or mop floors, but the way I see it if a CNC programmer spills his own cup of coffee on the tile floor of an employee lounge the CNC programmer has 1 of 2 options.

Option #1 Use a paper towel to soak up the mess so there isn't a slip hazard on the floor.

Option #2 Exercise a crappy sense of entitlement, refuse to clean up your own damn mess, and leave a potential slip hazard for other employees on the floor until someone else cleans it up.

That's not work, that's not being a dick.

I assumed by "entitlement" you meant refusing to do something at your place of employment because it was out of your job description or "below your pay grade."

Cleaning up the coffee they spilled is cleaning which entitled dicks can exactly define as "not in their job description" and/or "below their pay grade"

Long periods of unemployment often cause perspective employers to wonder if the person is lazy, incomplete, or an entitled dick. At least working the crap temp job will eliminate doubts that the perspective employee is lazy or an entitled dick.

Looking for a job while currently employed in your profession>looking for a job after recently being laid of>looking for a job while working a crap job>looking for a job while unemployed for 100+ weeks.

Amaya wrote:Hey Grakmar, don't blame the pot. It doesn't make you lazy.

dogma wrote:Its pretty much the attitude our HR guys have. If all you've been doing for 2 years is work at McDonalds, then you were unemployed.

This. Right here.

There is no value whatsoever in working entry-level in the fast food industry. If it's between that or starvation, then that's a solid excuse. But otherwise, you're better off simply not. And if you're going to be out of work for a while, you'd better enroll in some classes, because gaps in the resume are never good. But if you've been let go and then you go back to school rather than flip burgers, then that looks perfectly fine on a resume.

schadenfreude wrote:
Cleaning up the coffee they spilled is cleaning which entitled dicks can exactly define as "not in their job description" and/or "below their pay grade"

There is a difference between your boss telling you to clean and not cleaning up after yourself.

schadenfreude wrote:
Long periods of unemployment often cause perspective employers to wonder if the person is lazy, incomplete, or an entitled dick. At least working the crap temp job will eliminate doubts that the perspective employee is lazy or an entitled dick.

I don't know, when I was hiring people at the gym I pretty much went on the idea that a guy with a degree, and employment history at Burger King, was lazy if he was over 23-24. It would be, as Ahtman said, different if he had been in school (or interning) at the time, but if all you can list is a crap job you probably weren't trying.

That said, if you can attach a good story to the matter things change; and it also varies by area.