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Grey Templar wrote:You do know that Tervigons run out of Gants if they roll Doubles right?

The change that they don't run out is fairly low, not to mention thats if you don't kill the Tervigons. They arn't hard to kill you know.

Well it's 50/50 that you can roll doubles, or more like 41% or 42% so almost like a 50/50 chance of rolling doubles.

Nids can't run a cheese list, not since their FAQ and Codex has shown that GW really likes to bone Nids. 6th has only just made them viable from a competitive standpoint, and its still slightly underpowered.

I am so afraid of the new FAQ that is suppose to come out at the end of August. I fear we will be boned even more.

phoenixrisin wrote:either your math is bad or you run a list similar to this and your feelings are hurt from being called out as cheese.

Or, you know, you're wrong and it's not cheese at all.

actually, something that's toughness 6 buffed to toughness 7-9 w/biomancy that gets a cover save from being 25% behind a ruin that's bubble wrapped in units can be extremely difficult to kill for any army that isn't primarily ranged.

yeah, i know they run out. IF you roll doubles.

Remainder redacted by Mannahnin

phoenixrisin wrote:

60mm wrote:

phoenixrisin wrote:it's cheese because at the end of a 1500 game i've killed 2100 worth of tyranids. any model x farm list is cheese to me, and just a scam to sell more models using effective in game rules.

LMAO! 2 Tervigons spawning 120 Termagants?!?!

And before the Tervigon there was the without number rule for endless gaunts. It's part of Tyranids. I can equally say, having an army of 3+ troops is cheese or maybe toss outlandish numbers like saying its cheese that your space marines only cost 4 points. Also, seeing as how you can field 5 Tervigons in one FOC I'd hardly call 2 spamming.

phoenixrisin wrote:i would call 4 psykers in 1500 spam territory.

Again, just happens to be something Tyranids have always been heavy on. You can fit 16 psykers in one Tyranid FOC, and 4 is "spam". Lolz. The typical Tyranid list will have 4-7 without even trying for extra psykers.

two tervigons spawning 10.5(average of 3D6) gaunts w/ toxin sacs every turn is 126 points of units a turn. 123 x 5 equals 615 points of units in a game. so yeah, you're right, 2100 points was wrong. its really 2130, thanks for proving my point even further. either your math is bad or you run a list similar to this and your feelings are hurt from being called out as cheese.

so lulz all you want, you're running cheese.

you can fit 12 vendettas/valkaries in one foc but running 6 of them in a 1500 point game is still spamming them so your point about how many you CAN have is...well...pointless.

I have yet to see 2 Tervigons spawn near that many, you typically get a couple rounds before doubles come up.
2 of a model is the farthest from spamming.
One unit of zoans and an hq gives nids 4 psykers alone and thats been common forever.
Just because you don't like a unit, doesn't make it cheese. It makes it a unit you don't like, I have never heard anyone call 2 Tervigons cheese, can you send me those magic dice you have that are cranking out 60 termagants without doubles? I'd love some!

P.S. Running 6 (note that being 3x2, 2+2+2) flyers that no one but IG has units yet to deal with, is cheese. For that reason. Everyone has stuff to whail on tervigons with. AA is non-existant unless you are IG or want to put IG defenses in front of your army. Sending out 600+ points of flyers when you know the overwhelming majority of armies have no options to deal with them isn't just cheese, it's WAAC. But 2 Tervigons, thats the king cheese for sure. Must be why I saw all those Tervigon leaf blower lists ruling tournies . . . Oh wait. Nevermind. Maybe all those tournie masters didn't have your brilliant insight that every Tervigon is a surefire 300 points of Termies, you should write them letters with your masterful insight.

You know your argument can be simplified pretty easily;

phoenixrisin wrote:it's cheese because at the end of a 1500 game i've killed 2100 worth of tyranids. any model x farm list is cheese to me, and just a scam to sell more models using effective in game rules.

two tervigons spawning 10.5(average of 3D6) gaunts w/ toxin sacs every turn is 126 points of units a turn. 123 x 5 equals 615 points of units in a game. so yeah, you're right, 2100 points was wrong. its really 2130, thanks for proving my point even further. either your math is bad or

yeah, i know they run out. IF you roll doubles.

You don't know the rules. And I doubt you are aware of the maths.

You can't spawn termagants with toxin sacs, the rule clearly states that you get no biomorphs and they carry fleshborers, ie. standard gants.

On average you will see 2 tervigons spawn 10 lots of gants over 5 turns 1 in every 110 games, if that happens you wil face an average of an extra 525 points. In more normal game you won't face anything like that. Seeing them spawn a 6th group each on turn 6 would be a statistical fluke, happening 1 in 357 games.

I suggest a new thread for "what constitutes cheesiness or otherwise in a Tyranid army", since that's not what this thread's about anyway.

Let's stick to the effectiveness of Tyranids in general, here. Which means, let's find out how competitive they can be if you make the toughest nid list you can -- so considerations of "cheesiness" are irrelevant (and utterly subjective anyway).

The Stone-Crusher Carnifex from IA:A 2nd Ed. got better, as it has a 2+ save. It is still freakishly expensive though.

Does anyone know if it can take a mycetic spore? I haven't got my book around ATM, but one of those dropping down a flank would be troubling news indeed.

Didn't it also get improved regeneration that works on a 1 or a 6? It also got nerfed since they only saw fit to arm it with a single set of crushing claws and nothing else.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:The Stone-Crusher Carnifex from IA:A 2nd Ed. got better, as it has a 2+ save. It is still freakishly expensive though.

Does anyone know if it can take a mycetic spore? I haven't got my book around ATM, but one of those dropping down a flank would be troubling news indeed.

It's actually much cheaper than a vanille CC Fex. For 195 points you get 2+, an additional +1 on damage results for buildings and vehicles (for total +2), regen that re-rolls 1s, assault grenades and crushing claws. A vanilla Fex with crushing claws, assault grenades and regular regen is 215. Downside is Stonecrusher can only be taken 1 per HS slot and can't be put in a Spore. So if you wanna run a single CC Fex, Stonecrusher is far better.

The personal argument has been pruned. Violating parties have been warned and/or suspended.

Keep it polite, folks.

I don't think the stone-crusher carnifex can take a pod, but 6th edition has me looking a lot more closely at it. I feel like it's the living tank the carnifex was meant to be. But that thing destroys vehicles and fortifications!