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p.s. Vects natural save is a 4+ so that's what you would use for the second roll after you fail the first save.

Except that second roll doesnt matter, because having already failed a save he takes a wound regardless, yes?

Stop avoiding that your position is logically absurd and ignores the actual rules. When you come up with some actual rules please post them, until then you remain in violation of the dakka tenets.

If the fail counts, then we should also take the wound, no? It's also in the rules, if you fail a save, you take the wound. Just as the SF rules say that if you fail a save, you lose the save. Like SF, no where in the wound and save section says that only the 2nd roll count either! So, why are we ignoring part of the rule? And surely then all rerolls are pointless, as we're essentially granting the opponent an additional round to hit.

olympia wrote:p.s. Vects natural save is a 4+ so that's what you would use for the second roll after you fail the first save.

With this, you have done something detrimental to your argument.

A re-roll cannot physically be a different number than the original. So you break the rules of fortune because you don't allow the model a re-roll, you allow the model a new/different roll.

Also, nos is correct; if you are stating that the first roll counts, why even care about the re-roll? you've already taken a wound before the re-roll is even attempted, according to you.

Ask yourself this: "What type of save does fortune allow me to re-roll"
The answer: A failed one.

olympia wrote:Ask yourself this: "What type of save does fortune allow me to re-roll"
The answer: A failed one.

but you failed the 2+ invul, not the 4+ armor.


also, the the To Wound rolls state anything about discarding the first roll on a re-roll?

If I have poison(4+), and I roll a 3, should I care about what I re-roll, since the first roll is still going to count?

No he does not TAKE A WOUND becasue you re-rolled the save. He WILL loose the Shadow Field becasue he has infact FAILD "A" SAVE, re-rolling it has nothing to do with weather or not the shadow field no longer functions. Notice how I broke it down a few posts ago.

Also note, by adding the phrase "continue trolling" I now no longer CARE what you have to say and am no longer interested in this conversation.

But you failed a wound save too... Neither the Fortune description nor wound/save rules explicitly said that the 1st failed save roll is discarded should a reroll is allowed. So why wouldn't you take a wound as well? There is an unsaved wound in the wound pool now. Where did that go?

olympia wrote:Ask yourself this: "What type of save does fortune allow me to re-roll"
The answer: A failed one.

So they take a wound then, no matter what happens with the reroll?

Answer the question.


Dooley - you provided absolutely no rules backing, so your "break down" is irrelevant.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
So they take a wound then, no matter what happens with the reroll?

that seems to be the consensus of this thread...

No, that seems to be the consensus of one poster who refuses to either read the rules or is willing to understand the consequences of their made up rules.

Amongst those who have provided actual rules support the consensus is the opposite, more sane idea.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

olympia wrote:Ask yourself this: "What type of save does fortune allow me to re-roll"
The answer: A failed one.

So they take a wound then, no matter what happens with the reroll?

Answer the question.


Dooley - you provided absolutely no rules backing, so your "break down" is irrelevant.

Fortune gives you the option to re-roll a failed save. Failing a save costs you shadow-field so the re-roll is taken with the 4+. It's quite elementary.

olympia wrote:Ask yourself this: "What type of save does fortune allow me to re-roll"
The answer: A failed one.

What type of shot does a Twin Linked weapon force me to re-roll?
A miss.
What type of leadership test does a Boss Pole allow me to re-roll?
A failed one.


You're asserting that only part of the negative effect of the first attempt stays no matter what.
I guarantee you can't quote a rule to even imply that.


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olympia wrote:Fortune gives you the option to re-roll a failed save. Failing a save costs you shadow-field so the re-roll is taken with the 4+. It's quite elementary.

If you're re-rolling a (failed) save, why are you still counting the first roll?
If you're counting it for anything, you must count it for everything - so a failed save causes a wound.


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Dooley wrote:No he does not TAKE A WOUND becasue you re-rolled the save. He WILL loose the Shadow Field becasue he has infact FAILD "A" SAVE, re-rolling it has nothing to do with weather or not the shadow field no longer functions. Notice how I broke it down a few posts ago.

Why are you only counting part of the failed roll? What is allowing you to do that?

Also note, by adding the phrase "continue trolling" I now no longer CARE what you have to say and am no longer interested in this conversation.

Also note, by adding CAPS to your posts you do not help your argument.

olympia wrote:

Fortune gives you the option to re-roll a failed save. Failing a save costs you shadow-field so the re-roll is taken with the 4+. It's quite elementary.

me, for the 10th time wrote:
So they take a wound then, no matter what happens with the reroll?

Answer the question.

What is "elementary" is your wilful misreading of the reroll rule. You are trying to claim that part of the initial roll has an effect, not the whole of it.

A DCM should lock this thread, because of obvious trolling

olympia wrote:Ask yourself this: "What type of save does fortune allow me to re-roll"
The answer: A failed one.

But still, what is allowing you to ignore the part that a model takes a wound for failing a saving throw, but that the forcefield falls when he does?

Either you apply both effects, meaning vect takes a wound and loses his forcefield before getting to reroll (at which point, fortune isn't even worth having), or you delay applying any effects until you see the second result.

And yes, a re-rollable Shadowfield can be deployed in a friendly game. My opponent did than when we were figuring out the new rules. He promptly rolled two ones in a challenge against my Warboss, and we had a lot of laughs over that. Well, I did.

Wow, so one game in 36 is fun and thats enough for you?

We´ll see if GW removes this gak with the next eldar codex.

olympia wrote:The wording for shadowfield states that if you fail a save its gone. The wording for Fortune requires you to fail a save to get a reroll. I wish people would engage with this rather than grasping onto a boss pole.

How is this any different than a 1 wound model that is buffed w/ Fortune failing it's first armor save? According to the rules (and your interpretation of Fortune) it would die before attempting it's re-roll. At best, you can claim that fortune is worded such that it's unusable (and has an extremely strong RAI basis for how it's supposed to work) but there's nothing about the dark eldar shadowfield that somehow makes this a special case, it's the same as anything that has a penalty for failing a save, has fortune on it, and fails it's (first, pre-fortune) save.


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BTW guys 400ish points of characters Voltroning to make one DE archon hard to kill in melee is by far the strongest or most absurd thing in this game. In the grand scheme of things it's downright mediocre.

It is a strong unit in the right situation. Like most Dark Eldar units, it must be used carefully, or it will die. If the unit is assaulted by multiple enemy units, only wounds from one attacking unit will be put on the shadowfield. this unit is very strong against most shooting or single unit assaults.

One unit does not make a strong army, but with synergy and smart play it can be quite scary!

BlueDagger wrote:I'm kinda baffled at the fact that this is even being contemplated. Please state a single other reference in the game where a die is rerolled but the first roll counts for anything.

Ork FAQ Ork Special Rules Waagh wrote:... Note that this still applies, even if if the Ork player uses Fleet special rule to re-roll a dice that rolled a 1.

Quick clarification regarding a subject that is here. If a Farseer is part of a Dark Eldar unit, say Incubi with an Archon attached, Can the farseer cast fortune on himself and it effect the entire Dark Eldar unit, incubi, archon and all?

No. The Farseer, while joined to a unit, functions as part of that unit. He can only cast Fortune on Eldar units, and the unit he's joined to is a Dark Eldar unit. And yes, the two are distinct. Hence Vect having both Preferred Enemy: Eldar, and Preferred Enemy: Dark Eldar.


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DaKKaLAnce wrote:A DCM should lock this thread, because of obvious trolling

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