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Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought






A popular 5th ed tactic was to move 12 turn the rear towards the enemy and disembark troops that want to shoot.

In 6th ed the chimera can move 6, troops can disembark 6, and the chimera can flat out 6 so that it's av12 front is towards the enemy.

Gained is the good av value facing the enemy, and 6" of defensive movement, lost is the extra 2" of disembark move

Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.


 
   
Made in ca
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





Earth

papathrax wrote:No! Wrong! the GL is a niche weapon, and that niche is your PCS. Keeps them cheap, keeps them mobile. It can crack light transports or lay down lasgun strength (woot!) blasts, which can do some bad things to units like wyches and boyz, and, if you're lucky, can even kill a couple of Marines. The more wounds you cause, the more saves they'll fail. Also, you're comparing the GL, Sniper Rifle and Flamer to a weapon 3 times the cost - of course the PG will win out. I agree, a PG is the weapon of choice on a bs4 model, but not bs3.


You are missing the point. That the plasma gun is 3x the cost or if it is on a bs3 model, is only mildly relevant. Its the fact that the plasma gun can deal with just about anything. How well will those grenade launchers do against a predator? Termies? Basic marines? The guard codex is brimming str6/ap4 and much better blasts anyway. Take a special weapon that will almost always have an assignment. Not some niche gun that works against a select few targets.

   
Made in au
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




australia

Barksdale wrote:
papathrax wrote:No! Wrong! the GL is a niche weapon, and that niche is your PCS. Keeps them cheap, keeps them mobile. It can crack light transports or lay down lasgun strength (woot!) blasts, which can do some bad things to units like wyches and boyz, and, if you're lucky, can even kill a couple of Marines. The more wounds you cause, the more saves they'll fail. Also, you're comparing the GL, Sniper Rifle and Flamer to a weapon 3 times the cost - of course the PG will win out. I agree, a PG is the weapon of choice on a bs4 model, but not bs3.


You are missing the point. That the plasma gun is 3x the cost or if it is on a bs3 model, is only mildly relevant. Its the fact that the plasma gun can deal with just about anything. How well will those grenade launchers do against a predator? Termies? Basic marines? The guard codex is brimming str6/ap4 and much better blasts anyway. Take a special weapon that will almost always have an assignment. Not some niche gun that works against a select few targets.


Missing the point? That is my point! It's too many points to put in the hands of some numpty who only hits half the time! Especially as it means he can't frfsrf. PG's go in the hands of someone that can use it, with bs4 or better.

As for your take on the GL... it's cheap, it's better than the sniper rifle on bs3, and has longer range than the flamer. It works against marines, yeah they still get the save, but you're still wounding on 2's if you shoot krak, or you can try to put plates on the whole squad. It can instakill Eldar, hurt most transports, put a small dent in any horde army, and it does it all from 24" and for 5pts! And it's an assault weapon, so you can, at a pinch, still shoot and charge. Because you can choose to shoot Krak (not a blast), you can overwatch. If you're running a platoon, you're taking a PCS anyway, and in the grand scheme of things 20pts is not much. 60pts, in a guard army, is quite a lot. I'd rather forgo both PG's and GL's in a PCS to get another squad. Now, as a reminder, I am only talking up GL's in respect to a PCS, no other squad. Vets? PG. CCS? PG. Guardsmen? flamer or nothing at all.

As for your example... who the hell in their right mind would shoot s6 at the front of a Pred and expect it to do anything? - unless it's the only target in LoS, in which case, may as well have a red hot go.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/30 03:53:05


When in deadly danger,
When beset by doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout.
- Cain. 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

... Ok, I love lasguns as much as the next guy, and FRFSRF is stupid fun and all... but I AM NOT dropping a plasma just so I can get 2-3 more lasgun shots. That would be like having a squad of marines dropping a guy with a rocket launcher because "wait! If he's holding a rocket, he can't shoot as many bullets at the tank!" Granted, I know this isn't exactly what you're going at, but that's how it comes across to some people.

Everytime I've used GL's I've been pretty underwhelmed, except for a x4 GL PCS squad in very low points games. I'm talking around 750pts to 1,000pts at most. Otherwise, I'd rather have literally any other weapon. Snipers can allocate wounds on 6's, flamers are good countercharge and clearing stuff off cover (as well as lots of autohits), meltas make good anti tanks suicide squads, and plasma, is well, plasma Even then, I usually just give them an autocannon and sit them on an objective, since they'll die in a heartbeat anyways. At least then they can do something useful.

The problem with GL's is just that they don't do anything that can't be done better elsewhere, or more efficiently. If' I've only got 5pts to spend on a special weapon, it's either going to be flamers or snipers, no question asked. Both are more effective at their job, can't be taken in most other places and be useful (especially snipers. They're probably around their best put in a SWS or a PCS, everywhere else either wastes good slots or doesn't have enough slots to make them useful, and I'm not taking ratlings )

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/30 04:34:10


'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in ca
Hellacious Havoc




Toronto

Another question-I looked in the IG Codex and can't find the answer to this. Can the Master of Ordnance use his Artillery Bombardment every turn or is it a one time use power like Orbital Bombardment is for the SM Chapter Master?

Proudly Gaming in the Toronto Area since 2002  
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

KOBossy wrote:Another question-I looked in the IG Codex and can't find the answer to this. Can the Master of Ordnance use his Artillery Bombardment every turn or is it a one time use power like Orbital Bombardment is for the SM Chapter Master?


Every turn. Welcome to the imperial guard. We can take basilisk weapons for 30pts

Just remember he ALWAYS scatters, and gets no reduction for BS (as far as I can remember, he is barrage after all) Even if you get the direct hit, you use the small arrow on the crosshairs to determine direction. If you get a scatter on the die, he scatters 3d6"

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in ca
Hellacious Havoc




Toronto

MrMoustaffa wrote:
KOBossy wrote:Another question-I looked in the IG Codex and can't find the answer to this. Can the Master of Ordnance use his Artillery Bombardment every turn or is it a one time use power like Orbital Bombardment is for the SM Chapter Master?


Every turn. Welcome to the imperial guard. We can take basilisk weapons for 30pts

Just remember he ALWAYS scatters, and gets no reduction for BS (as far as I can remember, he is barrage after all) Even if you get the direct hit, you use the small arrow on the crosshairs to determine direction. If you get a scatter on the die, he scatters 3d6"


Awesome! I was telling my friend yesterday that the Codex said nothing about it being once per game, and he didn't believe me, since he figured 30 points would make it broken. Then I told him it always scatters, but he still felt it was pretty inexpensive. I'm glad to have confirmed that very helpful gem of information.

And thankfully, the Master of Ordnance can at least somewhat minimize the scatter, since he can reduce the scatter distance by his BS as long as he can see the target.

Proudly Gaming in the Toronto Area since 2002  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

Every turn he doesn't move.

As for meltaguns in infantry squads, they can still be made to work (I'm reluctantly starting my 6th ed foot horde with melta everywhere). The idea of field position still exists in 6th ed, and, along with it, the melta hedge. It is very possible to just throw so many meltaguns down in so many places that it's impossible for your opponent to move anywhere where they aren't still in range of at least one meltagun.

Also, meltas are still the pike of the 40k world. Not the best weapon for slow moving blocks of infantry in an offensive role, but it sure as heck will keep stuff out of range if it doesn't want to get obliterated.

As for grenade launchers. They're rubbish. Were and are. Why does it matter if they only cost 5 points if they practically never kill anything? You might as well get a flamer or sniper rifle which at least have their moments, and will at least have a chance to do something good in the pile of otherwise general crapulance.

Those two weapons are bad against most stuff, but in a couple of circumstances, they really shine. Grenade launchers are never good... in any circumstance. Worse off, though they are cheaper, they do clog up special weapons slots that could have been used on weapons that will actually kill stuff.

Perhaps in the next guard codex there will be a reason to take them. Until them, leave them on the shelf.



Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

To back up what we're saying, think for a second. Would you really pay 5pts on a guardsman, just to give him a small blast lasgun? When you can buy a template weapon that autohits and ignores cover, or a weapon with longer range that on a 6 allocates the hit to whoever you want and can mess up MC?

And yeah Ailaros, I'm surprised you haven't gone back to the blob sooner. Are you going straight up infantry horde, or will you be trying them as just a support element? I'm planning on using one as a backfield defensive element to protect my rear line, since the rest of my list is highly aggressive and mobile. I ended up giving them plasma because if something manages to make it to within 12" of my main line that I need melta for, the game has probably already been lost by that point anyways

All that said though, regular old blobs with meltaguns and maybe autocannons if you think they'll sit around will still be plenty viable as far as I'm concerned. You'll have one or two armies you'll fear (the day your pal decides to bring 6 basilisks will be a rough one for sure, but it would've done that before as well) but most of the time it should be fine with good placement. We won't be seeing them at nova or anything like that, but I don't really care. Especially in "casual" games, where the average player isn't going to plan on taking 30 different things to snipe your commissars, I think they'll work well, if not better than 5th. Challenges, the power weapon changes, and the initiative pile in changes are all huge changes, and if we'd kept commissars as hidden upgrades, they would've been REALLY scary this edition. Power axes, power mauls, and power swords will all have a place, and I'm sure we'll end up taking a variety of them to handle different situations. I see nothing wrong with a 30 man powerblob packing an axe, a maul, and a sword, with the commie packing whichever you like the most. Of course, we'll just need to play then more and find out. Until them, we're just talking about nothing and wasting time. Until then...

THE BLOB IS DEAD. LONG LIVE THE BLOB.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/30 15:22:19


'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought






Ailaros wrote:Every turn he doesn't move.

As for meltaguns in infantry squads, they can still be made to work (I'm reluctantly starting my 6th ed foot horde with melta everywhere). The idea of field position still exists in 6th ed, and, along with it, the melta hedge. It is very possible to just throw so many meltaguns down in so many places that it's impossible for your opponent to move anywhere where they aren't still in range of at least one meltagun.

Also, meltas are still the pike of the 40k world. Not the best weapon for slow moving blocks of infantry in an offensive role, but it sure as heck will keep stuff out of range if it doesn't want to get obliterated.

As for grenade launchers. They're rubbish. Were and are. Why does it matter if they only cost 5 points if they practically never kill anything? You might as well get a flamer or sniper rifle which at least have their moments, and will at least have a chance to do something good in the pile of otherwise general crapulance.

Those two weapons are bad against most stuff, but in a couple of circumstances, they really shine. Grenade launchers are never good... in any circumstance. Worse off, though they are cheaper, they do clog up special weapons slots that could have been used on weapons that will actually kill stuff.

Perhaps in the next guard codex there will be a reason to take them. Until them, leave them on the shelf.




With meltas deployed as you described most of the board is unavailable to vehicles. Without melta cheap transports can tank shock multiple units every turn with little or no risk to the transport.

Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.


 
   
Made in ca
Hellacious Havoc




Toronto

Are Commissars worth taking?

Proudly Gaming in the Toronto Area since 2002  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

Much less so, now that they can be picked out of squads and power blobs are dead. Their main use is in stubborn, and that's not a sure thing anymore. They also help a squad receive orders and get rerolls to morale checks, but you have other, much cheaper equipment that can handle this in your CCS.

Lord commissars are certainly more useful, but they're kind of overpowered for most of the rabble they'll be stuck with now. You can make a single proper power blob with them, and they're still pretty neat with LoS along with all those thuggish ogryn wounds, if you take them with an ogryn posse.

And of course, for fluff reasons. They're not so terrible that if you want to include them for the sake of including them that you should skip over them anyways. In many respects, though, the age of commissars has temporarily passed...


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in ca
Mutilatin' Mad Dok





CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!

I'd also like to piggy-back onto this thread, if that's cool.

So I did some research and picked up the codex and a battleforce the other day, and I have a few questions:

Where do I go after this? I like the idea of a defensive gunline army, with mostly infantry pouring out hails lasfire to cut down the enemy army (with some tank support), is this still viable? I don't want WAAC, but I would like to have a force that stands a reasonable chance of victory.

Does a heavy weapon squad all need to have the same weapons? (even then, should they all have the same weapons, with dedicated roles? It sounds like a sound idea)

I was considering starting with 2 platoons (essentially the battleforces and a CCS with a Master or Ordnance as the HQ) along with a LRBT, to be later supplemented by Basilisks, more LRBT's and much more infantry. Does that make sense?

What sort of special weapons do I give the infantry squads? I'm leaning towards flamers, but I'm concerned about enemy armored units.

Is one HWS of autocannons and one of lascannons a good move? What about sentinel weapons?

Finally: How do you go about magnetizing things? What kind of magnets do you use? I'm unfamiliar with the practice.

DR:90S++G++M++B-I++Pwmhd13#++D+A++++/fWD303R+++T(F)DM+

 Atma01 wrote:

And that is why you hear people yelling FOR THE EMPEROR rather than FOR LOGICAL AND QUANTIFIABLE BASED DECISIONS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE MAJORITY!

 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

Sounds like you want to play gunline guard. which can always be good fun every now and then. The problem is a lot of the missions in 6th require mobility to capture objectives, and gunline guard is a very static army. You'll need something that can move up quickly to capture and contest objectives after you've hammered the enemy. Vets in chimeras, scoring units in vendettas/valks, and cheap infantry units like PCS's and SWS's all work well for this. For your chimera mounted units, giving them a heavy weapon will make them a great adition to your gunline before they move up. The autocannon+multilaser combo is great at killing transports for example. If they're vets or a CCS, a lascannon wouldnt be a bad idea either.

As for your original questions, HWS's may take a variety of weapons, but you usually want to take all of them as the same kind. They can't split fire, so if you have a mix of fire, you'll usually be wasting shots from something everytime you shoot. Autocannon, mortar, lascannon, and missle launchers are all viable. Autocannons should be your first pick, and lascannons are alright (although bizarrely, its only 25pts more than a 3 lascannon team to get a vendetta, and it can fly, carry troops, has av 12, and its lascannons are twin linked) Mortars and misle launchers are meh, but there are much worse choices in the codex. Ignore heavy bolter HWS's entirely. A general setup of an autocannon and a lascannon squad would be a good idea starting out. Dont glue the weapons down by the way, and you can just swap them as needed (the guns have a peg that fits in the hole on the tripod, dont even need magnets)

LRBT's work well in almost any guard army, and several of the variants work well, Exterminators, Executioners, Punishers, Vanquishers, and Demolishers all have merits, so make sure you can swap your turret weapon as needed. Artillery also got better this edition, and all of them can contribute to your army. I'd recommend not gluing the basilisk cannon to the chassis, and converting the rest so you can use all of them. Griffons are awesome in small points games, medusas are excellent siege guns that can annihliate TEQ, buildings, and tanks with ease, Bassilisks put out raw firepower at insane range, and Colossi can annihilate just about any unit that relies on cover to survive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Will add on the rest here in a little while, gotta eat first

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/31 16:40:25


'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in ca
Hellacious Havoc




Toronto

MrMoustaffa wrote:Ignore heavy bolter HWS's entirely.


Why is that? Heavy Bolters seem great for tearing apart enemy infantry, plus you get more shots and its the same AP. You give up 1 shot to get better strength which is better for taking out vehicles. I see both as being viable.

Proudly Gaming in the Toronto Area since 2002  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

MrMoustaffa wrote:You'll need something that can move up quickly to capture and contest objectives after you've hammered the enemy. Vets in chimeras, scoring units in vendettas/valks, and cheap infantry units like PCS's and SWS's all work well for this.

You can certainly use these, but it's not required. The "choke them with infantry!" method still works as well. You don't have to be fast if you're plentiful.

MrMoustaffa wrote:and lascannons are alright (although bizarrely, its only 25pts more than a 3 lascannon team to get a vendetta, and it can fly, carry troops, has av 12, and its lascannons are twin linked)

But the vendetta can't score, can't contest objectives, and can't take proper cover saves.

The vendetta is nifty, but it's not an auto-include if you need long range anti-tank.



Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

KOBossy wrote:
MrMoustaffa wrote:Ignore heavy bolter HWS's entirely.


Why is that? Heavy Bolters seem great for tearing apart enemy infantry, plus you get more shots and its the same AP. You give up 1 shot to get better strength which is better for taking out vehicles. I see both as being viable.


Well the problem is they can only kill infantry fairly well. And IG has so many different things that can kill infantry it seems like a wierd idea to buy a squad of heavy bolters, especially when you can just pay 20pts and put them on a leman russ or something. Putting them in infantry squads isnt as bad of an idea though, but I'd rather have Autocannons there personally. Everytime I've taken HWS's I try to keep them cheap, because if they have anything remotely useful on them, they'll be dead in a heartbeat. I usually only take autocannons, because anything else either is too hit and miss (lascanons, RL's) or too specialized. Autocannons are a great weapon that is very flexible, and i know that no matter what i'm up against, I can use them for something.

which brings me to the lasconnon HWS vs Vendetta point with Ailaros. I bring HWS's with fire support in mind. Yes, they can potentially capture and contest objectives, but they're so fragile it's never worked out for me. Even going to ground with incoming, they just die or run away. As such, I never plan on them capturing or contesting anything, and se it as a nifty bonus if that. I have other squads for holding objectives that do the job much beter. And while a vendetta cant score or contest, it's able to carry units that can, which I see as more useful, even if it costs more points to do so. As for the lascannons, I'd rather have those on what is essentialy a flying tank with twin link, than on a paper thin guardsmen squad that hits less and *might* be able to score and contest if the enemy ignores them. That's just my method of thinking though. I play with very skilled players who know how to fight IG, and they won't let a HWS stay on the board long, especialy if they think I'm tying to hold an objective with it. Results vary on your meta though, and it wouldnt surprise me if others can make it work. I'm just speaking from experience. I'd rather take those lascannons on anything else over a HWS. Heck, I'd even throw them on barebones infantry squads. At least there they've got better Ld and some ablative wounds.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





I think the scoring aspect of HWS is more bonus than prime virtue, and only makes them a bigger target. That's not to say they're bad, but it shouldn't be counted on. Mortars are the exception, I think. They are easy to hide, they're cheap, and they contribute pretty much anywhere, so to prevent them from scoring, the opposition has to dedicate some effort to dropping a 60 point unit that is likely in the most inconvenient place possible.
   
Made in ca
Mutilatin' Mad Dok





CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!

It's really hard deciding on loadout for my HWS now. From what you guys say, putting them as part of an infantry squad is a good idea (for direct shooting guns like autocannons)

Otherwise just stick them in back with mortars, that sounds about right? It just seems to me that lascannons would be better viewed given their AT potential.

DR:90S++G++M++B-I++Pwmhd13#++D+A++++/fWD303R+++T(F)DM+

 Atma01 wrote:

And that is why you hear people yelling FOR THE EMPEROR rather than FOR LOGICAL AND QUANTIFIABLE BASED DECISIONS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE MAJORITY!

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

You've got to be really careful with a vendetta, though. It's not a good transport, as it's not too far away from a S10 fiery crash for the people inside. Plus, the vendetta has much more limited mobility, which is bad for a transport. If you want to use it like the transport of yore, you've got to hover, which means it takes on all the new fragility of both AV12 and of skimmers, on top of its traditional difficulty getting cover saves. The vendetta was seriously questionable as a transport before, and now it's scarcely justifiable.

As far as just the lascannons are concerned, the vendetta is more durable than the HWS, that's for certain, and it's also a lot better against enemy fliers without a doubt (what I see as its primary role now). The vendetta does come with two serious liabilities, though, that the HWS redresses.

Firstly, the HWS starts on the table, every game. The vendetta never does. Really, the point of heavy weapons is their alpha strike capability, and it stinks not to be able to properly alpha strike them. They may not even show up until turn 3. Furthermore, of course, there's the problem with their swine-like turning radius. You may well be able to get a decent target in your sights the turn you arrive, but after that, movement restrictions means you're going to overshoot your target pretty quickly, and be forced either off the board (and you lose yet another turn of shooting), or are going to be forced to shoot at worse targets.

I still agree that vendettas are good, but the borderline hysteria I'm starting to see (in general, not here) isn't really justified.


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

I'm sorry, don't let the rant I gave on lascannon HWS's scare you, they're still good. I just prefer to have them on more durable platforms. You could take a Lascannon HWS or two, just make sure you have ways to keep them alive, or draw fire away from them with other threats, or have so many your opponent cant silence them all. I usually take lascannons on my vet and command squads, and sometimes platoon squads. The higher accuracy of the vets and CCS really makes them shine. Usually anything bs 3 in my list gets the autocannons, so the high bs can focus on making the lascannons scary.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

MrMoustaffa wrote:I usually take lascannons on my vet and command squads, and sometimes platoon squads. The higher accuracy of the vets and CCS really makes them shine. Usually anything bs 3 in my list gets the autocannons, so the high bs can focus on making the lascannons scary.

Yeah, I'm waffling back and forth on this at the moment. On the one hand, HWSs are rather fragile, so it would make sense to put the autocannons there instead of in the infantry. On the other hand, HWSs pack the best punch, so it would make sense to put the lascannons there, also freeing up my infantry to run around a little bit more. On the one hand, I already have meltas in the PISs, so it would make sense to throw a lascannon in there for synergy. On the other hand, if I have all of my autocannons in HWSs that get blown off the table, then I won't have any autocannons, while I'd still have some anti-heavy-tank in the platoons if lascannon HWSs were offed.

I played a game last night with the autocannons in the infantry squads and the lascannons in the HWSs. Predictably, the HWSs were killed by the bottom of turn 2, and I could have used the lascannons, but were I against a DE player (or something), I would have sorely missed having safer autocannons.

Must... Not... Overthink...



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Made in ca
Mutilatin' Mad Dok





CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!

That makes sense.

And you would recommend putting my HWTs inside other squads instead of their own squads then? It seems like that would be the logical alternative, giving them spare wounds to soak up before dying themselves.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/31 21:53:33


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 Atma01 wrote:

And that is why you hear people yelling FOR THE EMPEROR rather than FOR LOGICAL AND QUANTIFIABLE BASED DECISIONS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE MAJORITY!

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

Umm, if you're running shooty platoons, I would start by putting heavy weapons in the squads before I started putting them into HWSs, I guess. There is less disincentive to putting HWs in PISs thanks to by-model movement, and they are certainly safer there.

But if you're like me, if it's worth taking one of something, it's worth taking nine of something, and if you want to spam the hell out of heavy weapons, eventually you're going to want to throw down a couple of HWSs. More fragile, but have better killing power (concentration of shots, and ability to have three heavy weapons take an order at the same time).


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in ca
Hellacious Havoc




Toronto

I personally like the idea of including some Heavy Weapon Teams in my CCS, Veteran Squads and Infantry Squads, just because they add some extra firepower and you can keep them concealed somewhat. However, I definitely plan on taking at least 2 regular Heavy Weapon Teams so they can focus on tougher squads and even just sit on objectives and lay down fire. If you have an objective in the back field, its begging to have a squad of 3 Autocannon HWTs sit beside it and hammer infantry/light vehicles. Not only are they safer at 48" range, but they can also continue to fire WHILE holding the objective. 10 Guardsmen could do the job as well, but with 24" range on their Lasguns, they wouldn't be shooting much.

Proudly Gaming in the Toronto Area since 2002  
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

Well, all this talk of heavy weapon squads is making me reconsider them a bit. I'll probably end up taking 3 or 4 squads of autocannons for saturation (and because that's all I've got) and spamming lascannons everywhere else. And this will be in roughly a 1,000 point game... God I love IG. I still stand by my statement that I'll only ever take autocannons on a HWS. Everything else is either too expensive, too niche, or too much of a target. Autocannons are just weak enough to ignore, just cheap enough for me to not worry about them, and plenty killy enough to be worth it in any situation. I will still spam the feth out of lascannons everywhere else that I can

Won't get to play with it a ton, as we have the feast of blades qualifier sunday, but I can guarantee you saturday people will learn to fear the wrath of the HWS...

EDIT: My god... what have I done? This is a 1,000pts list... and it's so beautiful I want to cry. I don't even think I have enough bases for it.

+++ No Name (1000pts) +++
+++ 1000pt Imperial Guard 5th Ed (2009) Roster (Standard) +++

Selections:

+ HQ + (170pts)

* Company Command Squad (85pts)
Lascannon, Regimental Standard

* Company Command Squad (85pts)
Lascannon, Regimental Standard

+ Troops + (830pts)

* Infantry Platoon (455pts)
* Heavy Weapons Squad
3x Autocannon
* Heavy Weapons Squad
3x Autocannon
* Heavy Weapons Squad
3x Autocannon
* Heavy Weapons Squad
3x Autocannon
* Infantry Squad
Heavy Bolter
* Infantry Squad
Heavy Bolter

* Platoon Command Squad
Heavy Bolter


* Infantry Platoon (375pts)
* Heavy Weapons Squad
3x Lascannon
* Heavy Weapons Squad
3x Lascannon
* Infantry Squad
Heavy Bolter
* Infantry Squad
Heavy Bolter

* Platoon Command Squad
Autocannon

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/01 01:58:50


'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

I like me a choppy CCS and meltaguns in my PISs, but this list isn't all that far away from the 1,000 point core of my current guard list. Throw in some artillery and a couple of elites perhaps, and you can do some pretty sassy stuff.


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in ca
Hellacious Havoc




Toronto

I was thinking of taking Meltaguns on my Infantry squads. Do you think Autocannons or a Heavy Bolter would be better?

I decided not to include Regimental Standard on my CCS since with my Master of Ordnance they'll be sitting far back, not really in range of anyone for it to be of use. I took it out and used some leftover points to put 2 Plasma Guns in my PCS, which will help make them a bit more dangerous.

I was also thinking of putting 3 Flamers in my SWS. What's the consensus on that idea? Or is it better served with Sniper Rifles, or just add in another Infantry Squad which is also 50 pts?

Proudly Gaming in the Toronto Area since 2002  
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

Well the point of that list was "how many heavy weapons can I put in a list if I never wanted to move, ever?" answer? 26, possibly more if I dropped some lascannons. I'm deffinitely testing this saturday, as the more I think about it, the more it appeals to me. Yeah it's got crap for mobility right now, but stormtroopers, marbo, vendettas with meltaguns in them, and chimeras would help make this list shine. I might tweak it a bit, but as it sits, I think it should do fine. I'd throw an aegis defence line in, but thats 5 autocannons man!

As for the SWS what are you wanting to do with them, and how do you plan on using them? They can be kitted out to do almost anything. I plan on using mine as 2 melta, 1 demo charge teams to drop from vendettas for maximum fun. Others use them as a poor man leafblower, taking a 3 melta SWS and giving them a chimera another unit isn't using (from say a stormtrooper unit that's deepstriking or infantry squads that are ust going to sit on objectives all game) It's a very handy unit, just remember your PCS works great as one as well, is cheaper, and has more slots. So if you only need one, might want to buy a PCS instead. if you need more though, they're not a bad choice. Just give them whatever you think your list needs and they're good to go.

As for the regimental standard, if you're going to have a lot of HWS's hanging around near your CCS, like my list, they're very important. Even if they only save one team, that's 1-3 more autocannons sticking around for another turn. Since I didn't include commissars in the list either, it'll be important for my PIS's as well. They're really dependent on what kind of list you're running, but they can be awesome if used right.

And lastly, it's really up to you on what heavy weapon you give your infantry squads. In the list I posted above, I have so much antitank, there's no real reason to put AC's and LC's in them when I've got literally 12 autocannons and 8 lascannons sitting around, unless you have a thing for overkill. So I put heavy bolters on them, to help with hordes, since autocannons and lascannons can't handle those as well. In a more "standard" list though, I like to either put autocannons or lascannons on them. With BS 3, autocannons make sense from an accuracy standpoint, but you can twinlink lascannons with "bring it down" against most stuff that you really need to hit anyways. To be honest, it's more of what you think you need in your list man. Got a lot of autocannons already? Might want to put lascannons on them. No autocannons? Might want to throw a few on the infantry squads so they can do something. Nothing wrong with taking heavy bolters, autocannons, or lascannons there to be honest, it just changes what their role in your army will be.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/01 03:09:48


'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in ca
Hellacious Havoc




Toronto

Well I was thinking Flamers for the SWS just in case I wanted some close range power to hit tougher units like Terms, since Flamers auto-hit. Plus, they make a nice counter charge unit, what with Overwatch. Snipers seem sorta wasteful, since it'd be better if you could take more of them. Only 3 in a squad isn't really enough, SM Scouts can have 5.

I don't want to load up the SWS with Meltas because that makes them a prime target. I think its much smarter to put one Melta in each Infantry squad so they can be hidden. Flamers aren't seen as much of a threat these days, so a Flamer SWS would be able to footslog behind tanks without much fear of having a bullseye on them. Then they can pop out from behind their armored cover when needed.

Proudly Gaming in the Toronto Area since 2002  
   
 
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