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redkommando wrote:In the rule book, does it state a Psyker can swap his/her/its powers for any in the rulebook?

No. It tells you that your codex will say. And all the existing codices have FAQs telling you which, if any, of their psykers can swap.

It's been said before. Either a Furioso Librarian is a Librarian or a Rechlusiarch is not a Chaplain. You don't get to have it both ways.

Captain Antivas wrote:It's been said before. Either a Furioso Librarian is a Librarian or a Rechlusiarch is not a Chaplain. You don't get to have it both ways.

Incorrect, as those two situations are not even remotely the same. That was the strawman that was attempted before.

Librarian != Furioso Librarian. The two are proper nouns, and you dont have permission to split the composite noun at the end. Same as a Storm Bolter isnt a Bolter.

Basic rules here.

While fluff isn't rules GW often treats them the same, and the fluff on Furiosos tells us that some rare examples even house the body of a Blood Angels Librarian. YMMW but that's enough to make me willing to negotiate it for a friendly game.

Until they say they are the same for this situaiton, RAW you dont get it.

Nos, Mephiston is also not the unit called a Librarian, but the parenthetical note says that he's included. A parenthetical note placed like this is usually a reminder, rather than a whole new rule. Which implies that maybe they mean Librarian in the broader sense.

I think there's at least a little genuine ambiguity here.

Drunkspleen wrote:Oh, please show me the rule for the special ammunition that says it can't be used in an assault weapon, because I have certainly never seen that rule before.

Permissive ruleset. Show me where it says they CAN be used in an assault weapon.

Because they are an ammunition type, and replace the profile of the weapon.
They cant be used because a Storm Bolter is NOT a Bolter, despite having the same suffix. Because Storm Bolter is a composite proper noun, and you dont get to just remove the prefix

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Captain Antivas wrote:It's been said before. Either a Furioso Librarian is a Librarian or a Rechlusiarch is not a Chaplain. You don't get to have it both ways.

Incorrect, as those two situations are not even remotely the same. That was the strawman that was attempted before.

Librarian != Furioso Librarian. The two are proper nouns, and you dont have permission to split the composite noun at the end. Same as a Storm Bolter isnt a Bolter.

Basic rules here.

I usually support you, you don't come to conclusions rashly. In this case I can't get behind you. The Reclusiarch is not a strawman it is a valid point. The argument is that a Furioso Librarian is not a Librarian because it uses the statline for a Furioso Dreadnought and is not upgraded from a Librarian. The Reclusiarch doesn't use the statline for a Chaplain and is not upgraded from a Chaplain so is, by your logic, not a Chaplain. This has nothing to do with proper nouns. You are harping on statlines like they matter. If they matter, then they always matter not just when you think they should. There is no statline for a Blood Angels Librarian. There is a Librarian, in fact there are three types of Librarians. It makes no sense that GW would include two and leave out the third. They specifically included Mephiston despite the fact that he is obviously a Librarian. Maybe this is more permissive than you are willing to accept, as was previously mentioned.

Furioso Librarians cannot take other vehicle upgrades. This is because they would be too powerful if they could double dip into both Librarian and Vehicle bowls.


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nosferatu1001 wrote:Because they are an ammunition type, and replace the profile of the weapon.
They cant be used because a Storm Bolter is NOT a Bolter, despite having the same suffix. Because Storm Bolter is a composite proper noun, and you dont get to just remove the prefix

You don't get to use the Special Issue Ammo because the Storm Bolter is not a boltgun. It has nothing to do with the composite proper noun, it has to do with the fact that it is not a boltgun. Notice the word used in the rule is "boltgun" not "bolter". Your composite proper noun means nothing because the name of the weapon that can be used with these types of ammo is not a storm bolter. Lysander's rule affects all bolter weapons, and specifically states all types of bolters.

Warboss Nidsplitta wrote:Here's the catch though. You'll note in the FAQ where it states this:

Q. What Master Level is a Blood Angels Librarian?

A. Mastery Level 1. An Epistolary is Mastery Level 2. They both know two powers.

Nowhere else in the FAQ does it describe what master level a Furioso Librarian is. And since it fits the description (Blood Angels Librarian, knows two powers, can't get epistolary so it's mastery level1)....

This is what causes me to believe it can swap powers.

Is my reasoning sound?

Did really no one even care to look at this argument I made on the first page? The Furioso needs to have a Mastery Level, otherwise it doesn't get warp charge points. This would include the Furioso in the broader sense of being a Blood Angels Librarian. I'm not extracting Librarian from his name to let him swap, this part of the FaQ puts him in that distinction i believe.

Is there any argument against this?

Warboss Nidsplitta wrote:

Warboss Nidsplitta wrote:Here's the catch though. You'll note in the FAQ where it states this:

Q. What Master Level is a Blood Angels Librarian?

A. Mastery Level 1. An Epistolary is Mastery Level 2. They both know two powers.

Nowhere else in the FAQ does it describe what master level a Furioso Librarian is. And since it fits the description (Blood Angels Librarian, knows two powers, can't get epistolary so it's mastery level1)....

This is what causes me to believe it can swap powers.

Is my reasoning sound?

Did really no one even care to look at this argument I made on the first page? The Furioso needs to have a Mastery Level, otherwise it doesn't get warp charge points. This would include the Furioso in the broader sense of being a Blood Angels Librarian. I'm not extracting Librarian from his name to let him swap, this part of the FaQ puts him in that distinction i believe.

Is there any argument against this?

It was likely ignored because there is no argument against it. Its a great point. If you cannot give them new powers you cannot let them use any of their psychic powers.

Captain Antivas wrote:

Warboss Nidsplitta wrote:

Warboss Nidsplitta wrote:Here's the catch though. You'll note in the FAQ where it states this:

Q. What Master Level is a Blood Angels Librarian?

A. Mastery Level 1. An Epistolary is Mastery Level 2. They both know two powers.

Nowhere else in the FAQ does it describe what master level a Furioso Librarian is. And since it fits the description (Blood Angels Librarian, knows two powers, can't get epistolary so it's mastery level1)....

This is what causes me to believe it can swap powers.

Is my reasoning sound?

Did really no one even care to look at this argument I made on the first page? The Furioso needs to have a Mastery Level, otherwise it doesn't get warp charge points. This would include the Furioso in the broader sense of being a Blood Angels Librarian. I'm not extracting Librarian from his name to let him swap, this part of the FaQ puts him in that distinction i believe.

Is there any argument against this?

It was likely ignored because there is no argument against it. Its a great point. If you cannot give them new powers you cannot let them use any of their psychic powers.

That's because you missed the rule in the main rule book that states your mastery level is equal to the number of powers that you can use per turn. Thus furioso librarian is mastery level 1. Thus it has 1 warp charge per turn it can generate.

rogueeyes wrote:That's because you missed the rule in the main rule book that states your mastery level is equal to the number of powers that you can use per turn. Thus furioso librarian is mastery level 1. Thus it has 1 warp charge per turn it can generate.

Good point, I did miss that. I guess I am back to parsing composite proper nouns.

The Reclusiarch vs. Chaplin arguement is valid. If Furioso Dreads can not swap powers, then the Reclusiarch has a Power Weapon which can be either a Sword, Axe, Maul. Also the Reclusiarch's abilities works with allies as well.

The reason is the FAQ only address Chaplin's. The Reclusiarch is never mentioned in the FAQ. The Reclusiarch is a HQ choice and a completely different stat line from the Elite Chaplin.

Also if the Furiouso Libby can not swap powers, then their Hoods work like the ones in the Codex and not the Rulebook. The Librian's Hoods were FAQ'ed, Mephistons hood was FAQ'ed but not the completely different unit of Furiouso Libbies. So by that logic they work as described in the Codex.