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DIDM wrote:wait a minute

paper targets? so, what exactly will be left of these targets after a blow from a hollow point?

It's paper, a hole roughly .40 inches in diameter.

DIDM wrote:wait a minute

paper targets? so, what exactly will be left of these targets after a blow from a hollow point?

Let me do a little math. If it's an 1" round target (really small) and the bullet is a 40 Caliber, like the article says, and it's a hollow point, and they hit the center of the target. Then there will be a 0.3" ring that with a 0.4" diameter hole in the center, so more paper left than was cut by the bullet. So, if it's a standard 8.5x11" piece of paper, you will see an almost half inch hole in the paper.

For small-arms, like rifles and pistols, caliber is a reference to the width of the bullet (not the length) in relation to an Inch. So 40 caliber means 0.40 inches, 4 tenths of an inch, less than half an inch. Unless the bullet tumbles, which no modern firearm would be designed to do, it will make a hole the size of the bullet.

Hollow-Point means there is an empty cavity in the front of the bullet. This empty cavity should not deform "in flight", because if it did then the bullet would be wildly inaccurate. It is designed to mushroom out when it hits/travels through an object. Police Departments around the country use hollow-point bullets as standard issue. The Geneva Convention requires full-metal-jacket bullets that do not deform, instead they "poke holes in people" and continue on, which is not good if you are a police officer. You want the bullet to stay in your target and not go through and hit the kid down the street.

whembly wrote:'cuz they're watching the lunar schedules...

Anti-Zombie preparations?

Great minds think alike: bullets like this for "maximum damage" suggest preparation for a serious apocalypse, of zombie nature. If they were looking to put down civil unrest, they'd probably use rubber tips or tazers to knock people on their asses, not blow them to smithereens. So the leaders know the zombies are coming. Great. Time for a gun and it's time to put off my mace-building. I aim to misbehave.

Ouze wrote:

Manchu wrote:

Frazzled wrote:46,000 pistol caliber rounds, for what???

There's a storm brewin'.

This sounds like the tag line for an awesome movie, about a fisheries services detective in film noir style.

Noir nothing! Watch out for Michael Bay's Severe Weather Advisory -- coming to theaters Hurricane Season 2013.

/huge explosion

Only Michael Bay could have Baysplosions in the middle of a hurricane.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19252807

add some more fuel et voila.

Who should star? I'm thinking Hemsworth.

Frazzled wrote: If the weather service does (in case those hurricanes get uppity I guess) I could definitely see the Sept. of Education.

The NWS does not, but NOAA does. The NWS is part of NOAA but is not the same thing.

And 5 seconds of Google-fu reveals why you should never cite infowars.

holy gak guys


I wasn't asking for a breakdown


but isn't it a bit silly to use hollow point rounds for target practice?


and back on point, why the hell does the NWS need to arm up

DIDM wrote:

and back on point, why the hell does the NWS need to arm up

This was answered a few times already.

AustonT wrote:

DIDM wrote:wait a minute

paper targets? so, what exactly will be left of these targets after a blow from a hollow point?

It's paper, a hole roughly .40 inches in diameter.

DIDM wrote:holy gak guys


I wasn't asking for a breakdown


but isn't it a bit silly to use hollow point rounds for target practice?


and back on point, why the hell does the NWS need to arm up

Words have meaning...bro.



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dogma wrote:

Frazzled wrote: If the weather service does (in case those hurricanes get uppity I guess) I could definitely see the Sept. of Education.

The NWS does not, but NOAA does. The NWS is part of NOAA but is not the same thing.

And 5 seconds of Google-fu reveals why you should never cite infowars.

Id be more pissed about the $5000 magician than 46k in handgun ammunition.

I may be misunderstood

I can shoot a paper target with a .22 for target practice

hell I can shoot it with a variety of loads, but a hollow point? These are ARMOR piercing rounds, and they are ORDERING PAPER TARGETS


I just don't get it, the NWS is protected by the military like all other federal programs, they don't need an arsenal of their own.

DIDM wrote:I may be misunderstood

I can shoot a paper target with a .22 for target practice

hell I can shoot it with a variety of loads, but a hollow point? These are ARMOR piercing rounds, and they are ORDERING PAPER TARGETS


I just don't get it, the NWS is protected by the military like all other federal programs, they don't need an arsenal of their own.

Hollow Points (HP) and Armor Piercing (AP) rounds are not the same. They are almost exact opposites. HP rounds are designed to "mushroom" when they hit something, so as to increase damage and reduce momentum of the round. AP rounds, on the other hand, are designed to maintain shape so as to keep as much kinetic energy as possible to break through armor plating, such as ballistic vests.

And they probably practice with .45 hollow point, because that is the standard round used by law enforcement. It is especially common on ships, as the mushroom effect of the hollow point serves to reduce the chance of ricochet in the confines of a ship.

And the reason they are practicing with them is the same reason a basketball player practices with the same type of ball he's going to use in a game. Ammunition is not magic, different powder amounts and bullet selections do different things and go different places, it's not a massive amount of difference by any means but when it comes to neutralizing a threat you want to know that round is going exactly where you want it to go.

DIDM wrote:I may be misunderstood

I can shoot a paper target with a .22 for target practice

hell I can shoot it with a variety of loads, but a hollow point? These are ARMOR piercing rounds, and they are ORDERING PAPER TARGETS


I just don't get it, the NWS is protected by the military like all other federal programs, they don't need an arsenal of their own.

You must be kidding. Hollow points are decidedly not armor piercing. AP rounds are built around a steel penetrator. Kinda like a nail, not a hollow point. Speaking of 22s are you under the impression that 22 hollow points are armor piercing?
Of course they are shooting paper targets, what did you want them to use? Cadavers?
Some 6000 of these rounds are frangible, the ones for New Jersey where over penetration is a special concern. The implication is that these are duty rounds first and target rounds second. When shooting is a part of your job, and your life is on the line, you train as you fight. These are the rounds they use on the job.

Just to clarify, it is also not the NWS that is getting these bullets.

But of course we already said that a couple of times.

I have this wierd feeling its not going to take dusa.

Never let a good truth get in the way of a rant.

There's some asshat on another board who fething LIVES by that motto.

NOAA's Office of Law Enforcement protects fish stocks from depletion and marine mammals from extinction. We also protect the livelihoods of commercial fishers, the hobbies of recreational fishers, and the health of seafood consumers.

While scientists provide the research and councils provide the regulatory framework to manage our nation's fisheries, NOAA's mandate to end overfishing would be impossible without its Office of Law Enforcement to follow through on the rest of NOAA's hard work.

NOAA's Office of Law Enforcement is responsible for carrying out more than 35 federal statutes. The agency's jurisdiction spans more than 3 million square miles of open ocean, more than 85,000 miles of U.S. coastline, the country's 13 National Marine Sanctuaries and its Marine National Monuments. It's also responsible for enforcing U.S. treaties and international law governing the high seas and international trade.

Seems legit.

Since its close to end of the fiscal year might be that they brought the rounds for another Dept. If some remember that if money is not spent at the end of the fiscal year then thats less money they receive for the next fiscal year.

You do realize a lot of goverment facilities have armed security correct? Even "civilian" types of operations like weather services and whatnot. 46,000 rounds is not that much at all, and is probably just enough for the main facilities to provide their security staff with ammunition for security and training.

Just because they're buying bullets does not mean they are secret police or preparing for a rebellion. Also, isn't it usually a good idea to practice with the rounds that you intend to shoot? Hollowpoints probably shoot a bit differently from a normal pistol round, even if it's not a huge difference, in a life or death situation that half inch of deviation could be very important.

You need armed security for the Weathermen? Are your predictions that bad? What happened to just calling the police?

Frazzled wrote:You need armed security for the Weathermen? Are your predictions that bad? What happened to just calling the police?

It's not the weather men

But maybe they should use wiener dogs for security, with lasers attached to their heads. Bonus for no lethal shots, just a lot of shins being taken out.

d-usa wrote:

Frazzled wrote:You need armed security for the Weathermen? Are your predictions that bad? What happened to just calling the police?

It's not the weather men

But maybe they should use wiener dogs for security, with lasers attached to their heads. Bonus for no lethal shots, just a lot of shins being taken out.

The wiener legions are not security. They are predators. You can't use them for protection. You can only unleash them upon their prey!

Frazzled wrote:You need armed security for the Weathermen? Are your predictions that bad? What happened to just calling the police?

I'm sure at least one idiot has tried to break in and steal the computers and equipment they have in there. I know around here (kentucky) people have stolen far stranger things.

Heck, if I remember correctly, people have even stolen the warning devices and parts from weather sirens in the past.

Also, holy crap, how many wiener dogs do you have??!?!?

FFS. Frazz I know you raise trolling to an art form, but sweet baby Jesus. Look you confused another one.

MrMoustaffa wrote:

Frazzled wrote:You need armed security for the Weathermen? Are your predictions that bad? What happened to just calling the police?

I'm sure at least one idiot has tried to break in and steal the computers and equipment they have in there. I know around here (kentucky) people have stolen far stranger things.

Heck, if I remember correctly, people have even stolen the warning devices and parts from weather sirens in the past.

Also, holy crap, how many wiener dogs do you have??!?!?

Just call 911. You don't need your own personal police force.


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AustonT wrote:FFS. Frazz I know you raise trolling to an art form, but sweet baby Jesus. Look you confused another one.

I am a professional.


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MrMoustaffa wrote:
Also, holy crap, how many wiener dogs do you have??!?!?

We are many. We are Legion.

Frazzled wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:

Frazzled wrote:You need armed security for the Weathermen? Are your predictions that bad? What happened to just calling the police?

I'm sure at least one idiot has tried to break in and steal the computers and equipment they have in there. I know around here (kentucky) people have stolen far stranger things.

Heck, if I remember correctly, people have even stolen the warning devices and parts from weather sirens in the past.

Also, holy crap, how many wiener dogs do you have??!?!?

Just call 911. You don't need your own personal police force.

So why do people have guns. Just call 911, you don't need your own personal arsenal

d-usa wrote:[So why do people have guns. Just call 911, you don't need your own personal arsenal

As they say, "When seconds count, the police are just minutes away".