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 ineptus astartes wrote:
Wat.

On a more serious note, why can't it be the will of God that the child be aborted? For all we know, it could be the antichrist!

Isn't that like the antithesis to one of the pro life arguments?

If the will of God is expressed in The Bible, then perhaps the 10 commandments might be some indication of what God thinks about abortion.

If its God's will that someone raped you, why isn't it God's will that you got an abortion?

I'm a genius.

 LoneLictor wrote:
If its God's will that someone raped you, why isn't it God's will that you got an abortion?

I'm a genius.

There is a thing called free will and the woman must make the right choice in order to have salvation.

So she chooses abortion over theorectical salvation. That' called Freedom of Religion here in America.

The general idea is that no one can shove their theology down someone else's throat.

 illuknisaa wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:
If its God's will that someone raped you, why isn't it God's will that you got an abortion?

I'm a genius.

There is a thing called free will and the woman must make the right choice in order to have salvation.

So God makes a woman get raped, and then if she gets an abortion he sends her to hell?

 LoneLictor wrote:

 illuknisaa wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:
If its God's will that someone raped you, why isn't it God's will that you got an abortion?

I'm a genius.

There is a thing called free will and the woman must make the right choice in order to have salvation.

So God rapes a woman, and then if she gets an abortion he sends her to hell?

You shall not murder

simples.

Also fixed'

 illuknisaa wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:

 illuknisaa wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:
If its God's will that someone raped you, why isn't it God's will that you got an abortion?

I'm a genius.

There is a thing called free will and the woman must make the right choice in order to have salvation.

So God rapes a woman, and then if she gets an abortion he sends her to hell?

You shall not murder

simples.

Also fixed'

And what kind of God, who does something horrible like that, is worthy of worship or praise?

I am an atheist - quite a firm one, in fact.

I hope that I am wrong and that there is actually a benevolent, loving God as described by many gentle, kind loving people I have met in life, who will welcome me into paradise after death. I see this version of God as someone who would say "You know what, I made you a sceptic by nature, but that was a mean trick, so now let me give you some honest guidance to become a believer."

If, on the other hand, God is as described by your typical media-reported Republican, he doesn't deserve to be worshipped anyway, and on point of principle I refuse to be bullied by anyone, even if they did happen to create me. I never put up with being bullied by my father, so I don't see why I should accept it from God. If they are that vindictive, then I say say feth 'im, on general principle.

Let's not get into wanton bashing of Christians. There are many good things about Christianity.

The thread is supposed to be about this particular Republican politician's comments.

I'm not attacking Christianity, or any religious group. I'm simply saying that anyone or anything that advocates rape is sick.

 Fafnir wrote:
I'm not attacking Christianity, or any religious group. I'm simply saying that anyone or anything that advocates rape, is sick.

KK was referring to illuknisaa's comment....you're off the hook. Unfortunately I believe this topic is starting to turn into a religious thread

Ignoring other things, no where does the Bible say you go to hell for 'murder.' Few theologies support the position either.

 Fifty wrote:
I am an atheist - quite a firm one, in fact.

Nobody trusts you. Go on...

I hope that I am wrong and that there is actually a benevolent, loving God as described by many gentle, kind loving people I have met in life, who will welcome me into paradise after death. I see this version of God as someone who would say "You know what, I made you a sceptic by nature, but that was a mean trick, so now let me give you some honest guidance to become a believer."

I don't think athiest was the word you were looking for.

 LordofHats wrote:
Ignoring other things, no where does the Bible say you go to hell for 'murder.' Few theologies support the position either.

Interesting. I've always heard that "Thou Shalt No Kill" is actually a mistranslation, and the real meaning is "murder", as opposed to "kill". Being that the society in question thought killing was acceptable quite a lot of the time, for example in war, in criminal justice, and killing of animals for food.

 illuknisaa wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:
If its God's will that someone raped you, why isn't it God's will that you got an abortion?

I'm a genius.

There is a thing called free will and the woman must make the right choice in order to have salvation.

Its not Gods will that someone was raped.

God was aware that someone would be raped and planned a life for any child arising from that rape. This didn't get in the way of the free will of humans which resulted in the rape, nor does it get in the way of the free will of the victim as to whether there is an abortion.

To God there is no failure of His plan, if the child is carried there is a Plan A involving the life of that person, if the person is aborted God moves to alternative Plan A, never a Plan B. God has the secret advantage in that he knows which Plan A is needed, but He makes plans for all ends, not just the ones that actually come to be.

That is the easiest short answer I can give you. There are several immediate secondary questions to raise from that, which will take a bit longer to explain. Threadjack Y/N?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LoneLictor wrote:


So God makes a woman get raped, and then if she gets an abortion he sends her to hell?

No people are damned on the life choices in aggregate, not from a solitary act.

That is itself a very limited explanation. If the person has accepted salvation then the abortion is 'sin living with them' for which they are being perpetually forgiven. To understand this think of Divine forgiveness not as an action or instance, but as a continuing effect.
If the person has not accepted salvation and continues to choose not to do so, then Hell is the likely result. The abortion being one line on the rap sheet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mannahnin wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
Ignoring other things, no where does the Bible say you go to hell for 'murder.' Few theologies support the position either.

Interesting. I've always heard that "Thou Shalt No Kill" is actually a mistranslation, and the real meaning is "murder", as opposed to "kill". Being that the society in question thought killing was acceptable quite a lot of the time, for example in war, in criminal justice, and killing of animals for food.

This is correct.
there is plenty of justified killing in the Bible. Just look at the word 'smite'.

Jesus called the priests, prostitutes, and money lenders to repentance in relation to their occupations. The only direct comment to soldiers in the Gospels was the command by John the Baptist for soldiers to 'be content with your pay', meaning do not use your power as a soldier to extort from the populace. Soldiers however killed either in battle, policing or executions. If this was a crime against God, something would have been said about it. Jesus spoke to a lot of soldiers in ther Gospels and by and large he had transparently more respect a number of Centurions than for most other leaders in the province.

 Mannahnin wrote:

Interesting. I've always heard that "Thou Shalt No Kill" is actually a mistranslation, and the real meaning is "murder", as opposed to "kill". Being that the society in question thought killing was acceptable quite a lot of the time, for example in war, in criminal justice, and killing of animals for food.

That's the intended meaning of the verse, but violating a commandment is not a "go to hell" card. In almost all Christian theologies there's only one thing that gets you into hell (and no its not being gay ). The Catholic Church also maintains suicide, though not all Catholics would agree with that position.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:

Interesting. I've always heard that "Thou Shalt No Kill" is actually a mistranslation, and the real meaning is "murder", as opposed to "kill". Being that the society in question thought killing was acceptable quite a lot of the time, for example in war, in criminal justice, and killing of animals for food.

That's the intended meaning of the verse, but violating a commandment is not a "go to hell" card. In almost all Christian theologies there's only one thing that gets you into hell (and no its not being gay ). The Catholic Church also maintains suicide, though not all Catholics would agree with that position.

Actually Suicide is no longer a instant ticket to hell....They changed it after Vatican 2 I believe

Well then I guess we're down to only 1 way

 LoneLictor wrote:

 illuknisaa wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:
If its God's will that someone raped you, why isn't it God's will that you got an abortion?

I'm a genius.

There is a thing called free will and the woman must make the right choice in order to have salvation.

So God makes a woman get raped, and then if she gets an abortion he sends her to hell?

Yep. That's the actions of a benevolent God, all right!

Doesn't God forgive though?

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There are many good things about Christianity.

Like?

 Jihadin wrote:
Cheesecat. I had to give you an exult on that. No words but two powerful pictures. Nicely done

Just to make it clear I'm an atheist but I can recognize that people can do great things regardless of there beliefs.

All the more reason to recognize sweeping generalizations about a religion that over 1/3 of the world's population subscribes too is probably a horrible idea?

Off topic posts are being deleted. This is not another pro/anti religion thread. Further off topic posts will result in suspensions.

Edited, because I can't appropriately state the idiocy of this guy without it sounding like an anti-religion rant and making the MODs angry.

Sometimes, sometimes, people (politicians especially) should get an award for hitting that above-and -beyond point of stupid where it goes beyond "just scary".

 Mannahnin wrote:
Off topic posts are being deleted. This is not another pro/anti religion thread. Further off topic posts will result in suspensions.

I would like to see ALL of the off-topic posts deleted. I'm disappointed that my responses were removed, but not the original posts I was replying to, giving the other person the last word (including one spammy reply to something I said that was left while my earlier post was removed).

 illuknisaa wrote:
There is a thing called free will and the woman must make the right choice in order to have salvation.

Problem there is that you're trying to have free will at the same time you've got people saying that conception, even through rape, is God's will.

So you have people saying young kids should abstain, because they're not ready for a child. So great, they make their choice, don't have sex, have zero chance of making a child, and the result is no chance for God's will to make the girl pregnant.

But then someone gets raped, and then it's God's will that she gets pregnant.


The whole thing is a pudding of stupidity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Orlanth wrote:
Its not Gods will that someone was raped.

God was aware that someone would be raped and planned a life for any child arising from that rape. This didn't get in the way of the free will of humans which resulted in the rape, nor does it get in the way of the free will of the victim as to whether there is an abortion.

Seriously, no. God doesn't plan every conception. He doesn't sit there and say 'if that couple choose to have sex tonight I'll bless them with a child but if they don't good on them for not giving in to temptation until they're ready'. That's a muddling of free will and pre-desitination to produce nonsense.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
Off topic posts are being deleted. This is not another pro/anti religion thread. Further off topic posts will result in suspensions.

I would like to see ALL of the off-topic posts deleted. I'm disappointed that my responses were removed, but not the original posts I was replying to, giving the other person the last word (including one spammy reply to something I said that was left while my earlier post was removed).

Objection noted. Please stay on topic.