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 frozenwastes wrote:

Now this is a great idea. One local gaming group runs a 'zine that they hand out at local cons with stuff like that in it, both to show off their models and to advertise what they are up to. An electronic format like a DakkaDakka batrep or a blog would be even easier.

Thank you so much for the link and the idea. I can see why it's so motivating!

Yup, the blogs are a great idea too. Getting people on community sites like this is a great way to 'up people's game'. I have P&M blogs for all my armies, and the comments I get on those motivate me to paint and build much more than I would without the site.

 frozenwastes wrote:
Guess what? Not everyone has to do everything together. The expectation that they do is socially dysfunctional.

Nice try, but no, this isn't an example of someone wanting to do everything together. This is an example of someone wanting to do something, and you come along and say "Ok, but only if you do it the way I do it". That's socially dysfunctional - you're making other people either conform to your method of play, or they can't play.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
There used to be a time when it just wasn't on to field unpainted armies, especially among historical players. This is particularly due to the lead content in figures that made it unsafe to handle them bare for long periods. When I started this is how I understood things to be, and while unpainted stuff did get fielded it was a genuine work in progress. Now it seems that it's perfectly normal to field masses of figures without the intention to do any of the modelling and painting work, and be quite belligerent or proud about the fact that you don't have to do it, which seems a bit of a change in attitude.

See, for me this is where I perceive a difference. Now I don't know about the guys down at the local hobby shop, but most of them seem to have pretty relaxed work/uni hours or be looking for work, so they have the time and inclination to paint up their models. As I've said, I'm not a store-gamer, so I've not noticed or met anyone who has an unpainted army with no intention to paint them, but after a game or two against a friend's totally unpainted horde I'd probably ask them if they intended to paint them at some stage. Otherwise, watching a regular opponent's army take shape over several weeks can be an enjoyable part of the gaming process - and doing the same at the same time! - For me, anyway!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
Guess what? Not everyone has to do everything together. The expectation that they do is socially dysfunctional.

Nice try, but no, this isn't an example of someone wanting to do everything together. This is an example of someone wanting to do something, and you come along and say "Ok, but only if you do it the way I do it". That's socially dysfunctional - you're making other people either conform to your method of play, or they can't play.

I think the OP has made it quite clear that they CAN play. Just that he might not want to play with them.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Nice try, but no, this isn't an example of someone wanting to do everything together. This is an example of someone wanting to do something, and you come along and say "Ok, but only if you do it the way I do it". That's socially dysfunctional - you're making other people either conform to your method of play, or they can't play.

The fact that someone might or might not change what they do in response to my refusal to play never, ever, ever reduces or mitigates my right to say no. We are always free to say no to the offer of a game or anything else related to our hobby for whatever reason we like. No one is ever obligated to do something they don't want to do when it comes to their hobby. Your position puts the onus on me to participate even if I don't want to.

Furthermore, this thread is not about the merits of the position of only playing against painted models, so you're also off topic. This thread is about exploring what are the most effective means of communicating that one has made this decision for one's hobby time. Could you please ensure your future posts in this thread are on topic?

 frozenwastes wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Nice try, but no, this isn't an example of someone wanting to do everything together. This is an example of someone wanting to do something, and you come along and say "Ok, but only if you do it the way I do it". That's socially dysfunctional - you're making other people either conform to your method of play, or they can't play.

The fact that someone might or might not change what they do in response to my refusal to play never, ever, ever reduces or mitigates my right to say no. We are always free to say no to the offer of a game or anything else related to our hobby for whatever reason we like. No one is ever obligated to do something they don't want to do when it comes to their hobby. Your position puts the onus on me to participate even if I don't want to.

His position is basically telling you that despite what you are doing, you can indeed say no, you don't have to accept anything because of your right to say no.

It just means that you are going to sound socially dysfunctional, which as you've noted you are cool with. So there's not much of an issue there.

You can always say no, which is fine. Telling people that your only going to play them if they have a painted army, or attempting to manipulate them into doing something you want in order for you to play them. That's where it hits a level of socially awkward. Which in some cases will get people to react with negative results towards you.

scipio.au wrote: Otherwise, watching a regular opponent's army take shape over several weeks can be an enjoyable part of the gaming process - and doing the same at the same time! - For me, anyway!

Definitely. This was my approach for years. In the last few years though, I've noticed that you can still have the same sort of progression if you do it in the form of increasing game sizes with all painted models. For example, me and some friends started Dystopian Wars, painted the starters up and now we're enjoying the growth of our collections and painting as new models appear on the table top.

I definitely also see the merit in an approach that starts at full size with unpainted models and grows in terms of percentage painted. We have our different preferences though.

 ArbitorIan wrote:

Yup, the blogs are a great idea too. Getting people on community sites like this is a great way to 'up people's game'. I have P&M blogs for all my armies, and the comments I get on those motivate me to paint and build much more than I would without the site.

I'm going to email some gaming friends the link to your battle report summary page and ask if anyone is interested in doing something like that.

 ArbitorIan wrote:
I think the OP has made it quite clear that they CAN play. Just that he might not want to play with them.

Yep.

I'm also amused that those who accuse me of trying to force other people to conform are doing so in an attempt to convince me to abandon this idea and start conforming to their way of accepting games with unpainted models. Hypocrisy can be kind of funny some times.


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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
You can always say no, which is fine. Telling people that your only going to play them if they have a painted army, or attempting to manipulate them into doing something you want in order for you to play them. That's where it hits a level of socially awkward. Which in some cases will get people to react with negative results towards you.

It's only socially awkward for the people that have the unrealistic expectations of universal participation when someone shockingly refuses a game for a reason they don't understand and can't respect. People are going to have a negative results towards me on this issue when they don't respect my right to spend my hobby time how I want as well as my right to invite anyone I want to join me in enjoying the things I do as part of this hobby.

People keep bringing this thing Peregrene started up like I'm suddenly going to change my mind and start agreeing with them. Nothing new has been added to Peregrene's well explained position. And as well, people keep bringing it up after I've already asked that we don't talk about it anymore.

This thread is after all, not about the merits of painted vs unpainted or about the merits of a painted only policy or a non painted only policy, but is instead about how to go about talking about this issue with one's fellow opponents.

I think it's run it's course though. I'm not going to be convinced that my playing of painted only games is in anyway an ultimatum, manipulation, coercion or anything like that. The other side can only see it as such. So I'm asking for the locking of this thread as it is now dominated by off topic discussion.

Would like to give a final thanks to everyone who gave me constructive advice about how to actually communicate about this with my regular opponents.

Closing per original poster's request.